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Paths of Civilization

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Quest said:
!. We're basically Empire size now. Just because I want something doesn't mean I don't want something else. This? It's a secondary action, and we can pair it with building roads to manage the centralization.
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Right. I'm sure you'll fit it in somewhere with the other half-dozen secondary actions we want to take. o_O

Quest said:
2. We are in a Population Boom, and that space will be used up. The fact that we're aqueducting Redshore also gives us a higher expansion slot tolerance for popping True Cities, so we will be fine. Besides the actions we use can be set to make sure nothing pops.
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We are going to be 1 away from losing Valleyhome, and additional Aqueducts don't change that (they give +4 EE and +4 EE-cap for our current true cities; a wash overall.). The population boom will absolutely eat up the difference... if we let it. But if we grab another province now, we will be spending the whole turn without any true cities, at least.

Quest said:
3. I said Integrate. Not start the megaproject. The Megaproject only becomes available after we own the land, and can be done later.
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Your argument for integrating was to allow the megaproject. If you don't care to start the megaproject soon, then that is a terrible reason to integrate.
 
Candesce said:
Libraries require they already have a Temple or be a True City.

Temples, Governor's Palace, and Aqueducts all get us True Cities.

Annexes still won't happen on their own.

And if we're only getting salterns and the extra library in the what, one? still open slot, we sure as hell don't need 5+ progress per turn. Our current 3 is fine.
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We can easily support 2-3 more True Cities even if we don't make any of them Free Cities, and with our upgraded government and economic systems it's a lot more worthwhile to setup the Free Cities.

All three of them don't force the cities to form. Aqueducts give us possible cities if we start running low on EE, and the other two start pushing it a little.

Annexes might happen on their own if there's a reason to do it. We did it ourselves the one turn in which there was an obvious annex choice.

And seriously, Free Cities are actually fine now. So long as we keep our capital and primary mystical nexus, we're in a good position to use Free Cities.

edit: Also, no comment on Trails?
 
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Seems like the game is leading, acceptable as we are also eating Stallion tribe. Wonder what else will be on fire next turn.

Maybe Trille asking what happened to their mercenary companies?:V
Or they made ships decked in thin iron?
 
I think the thread in general is moving to the smith.

So,

[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X] [Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[X] [React] Main Build Glassworks
[X] [Policy] Patronage (+1 Culture/turn)
[X] [Policy] Innovation (Extra innovation roll each turn)
[X] [Bonus] Free Main Build Theatre

Regardless of the rest of your vote I implore the people voting for the artisian to vote for Innovation.

The purpose of an artisian is to create, after all.
 
Umi-san said:
it is low rn and rn alone
by the time the turn starts it will be 10 + whatever we get from integrating (i.e. 0-10)
it is literally on the front page: 3 (+7) {7}
how do you not understand?
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Yes and our mil cap is 20 and not
#+(b#)+{c#} cap being 20 but # as the base number and considering it all were safe as the other variables seem to be effective Martial and not total.
 
[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)

it's cheap, narratively satisfying, and may pay dividends.

[X] [Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)

we need to up our iron game. we most likely won't get steel but just getting a lot better at using iron would be very useful.

[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)

this has been on our to do list for.... fuck, I think this was on our to do list before the climate crisis. we are definitely doing it now.
 
notgreat said:
We can easily support 2-3 more True Cities even if we don't make any of them Free Cities
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And we don't need more infrastructure policy for this.

As for Trails... Betting on the "only in special circumstances" option coming in to save your day is about as bright as the thread's old attempts to use Expansion policy to plant forests.

It may have been technically possible, but you'll notice it never came up, and that's not because we weren't lucky, either.
 
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Honestly, if Diplomat isn't good, I'm liable to switch to Admin. We're primed to really start consolidating our territories over the next little while, with only one real potential war target that isn't the fucking Steppe Herpes.
 
pbluekan said:
It's probably desert. Remember that even though not!Earth is nearly geographically identical to earth, everything is shifted about 6-10 degrees south. This is what gives the Ymaryn (Ymar?) their warm, wet climate that has much more in common with the Mediterranean than with the Caspian basin. By that same token, those areas to the southwest which are dry scrubland and steppe in the real world are likely straight up desert in this one.
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Huh, was this latitude shift a thing AN let the thread know or is it a thing y'all puzzled out?
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by Killer_Whale on Jul 31, 2017 at 2:18 AM, finished with 90633 posts and 93 votes.
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Candesce said:
And we don't need more infrastructure policy for this.

As for Trails... Betting on the "only in special circumstances" option coming in to save your day is about as bright as the thread's old attempts to use Expansion policy to plant forests.

It may have been technically possible, but you'll notice it never came up, and that's not because we weren't lucky, either.
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It was because we were never on Expansion for long, and there was always a good spot to expand to while we were on it, and simultaneously we were never in danger-low forests at the same time.

And yeah, we don't need infrastructure policy for it. Infrastructure policy just lets us get it a lot faster and a lot more efficiently.
 
OliWhail said:
Huh, was this latitude shift a thing AN let the thread know or is it a thing y'all puzzled out?
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I believe it was something AN said directly at one point long long ago.

Anyway tally!

Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 3604 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: Mystic
[79][Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[4][Mystic] Get assistance from a temple (-1 Mystic)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Hero
[39][Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
[27][Hero] The smiths working overtime produced a prodigy (Heroic to Genius level artisan)
[9][Hero] The battlefield created a peerless medic (Heroic to Genius level medical mystic)
[9][Hero] The next heir was forged in this war (Guaranteed Heroic heir in the next main turn)
[8][Hero] One of the negotiators truly shone among the Khemetri (Heroic to Genius level diplomat)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Prov
[51][Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[36][Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: React
[68][React] Megaproject - The Games
-[51][React] Kick Megaproject
[18][React] Build more aqueducts (-2 & -3 Econ to complete aqueducts in Redshore and Redhills)
[7][React] Main Plant Poppies
[2][React] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
-[1][React] Kick Megaproject x2
[1][React] Main Build Glassworks
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Policy
[44][Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[38][Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[36][Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x1
[12][Policy] Innovation (Extra innovation roll each turn)
[9][Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x2
[8][Policy] Special: Vassal Support (+1 Subordinate while active, increases Loyalty while active at less than full subordinates)
[8][Policy] Industry (+1 Tech/turn)
[7][Policy] Trade (+1 Wealth/turn)
[5][Policy] Defence (+1 significant walls/turn) x2
[2][Policy] Expansion (So long as there is land to expand into, +1 Econ Expansion/turn, reduces threshold to produce new provinces the longer active)
[2][Policy] Patronage (+1 Culture/turn)
[1][Policy] Diplomacy (+1 Diplo/turn)
[1][Policy] Mysticism (+1 Mysticism/turn)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Bonus
[50][Bonus] Upgrade a random value
[27][Bonus] At least two technology upgrades (exploding rolls)
[9][Bonus] Free Main Build Theatre
[7][Bonus] Gain a random value slot
[2][Bonus] Free Main Proclaim Glory
Total No. of Voters: 94
 
SpeckofStardust said:
Yes and our mil cap is 20 and not
#+(b#)+{c#} cap being 20 but # as the base number and considering it all were safe as the other variables seem to be effective Martial and not total.
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I have no idea what you're saying in the second sentence.

Diplomacy is red and thus probably capped at 16, though it might be capped at 17 idr. 16 + 2 from Census = 18 (or 19). Our mil cap is 18 (or 19).

Sure, integrating ST might give us enough provinces for our base cap to be 18, in which case our mil cap would be 20.

20 + Econ/3 = ~24. Even if our martial cap is 20, we would be 4 over.

Integrating the ST now provides 0 benefit over doing it in half a turn and risks negative effects from high martial.
Integrating Gulvalley now apparently saves us 2 diplo and risks nothing.
 
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[X] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)

[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)

[X] [Policy] Industry (+1 Tech/turn)
[X] [Policy] Innovation (Extra innovation roll each turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)

[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value


[X] [Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
 
Chrestomanci said:
[X] [Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)

[X] [Prov] Integrate Gulvalley (-4 Diplo, +3 Econ, +8 Econ Expansion, +2 Mysticism, +3 Culture, +1 Tech, new core province)
[X] [Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)

[X] [Policy] Industry (+1 Tech/turn)
[X] [Policy] Innovation (Extra innovation roll each turn)
[X] [Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)

[X] [Bonus] Upgrade a random value
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Do you have a Mystic vote for Dragon Lady? [Honest curiosity]
 
notgreat said:
Infrastructure policy just lets us get it a lot faster and a lot more efficiently.
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Passive policies are for marathons, not sprints.

You want something done fast, use the active policy or our mains. Not the very-expensive-to-change passives.

And leaving Expansion policy running would have required us to run out of spots to expand to before it'd start with the forests.

We're next to the Steppes.

It wasn't going to happen.
 
[X][Mystic] Search the entire kingdom for someone who might understand her and put her at ease (-1 Mystic, -1 Econ, -1 Wealth, -1 Culture)
[X][Hero] Organizing all of this was hell, but one clerk refused to buckle (Heroic to Genius level administrator)
[X][Prov] Integrate Stallions (-6 Diplo, +5 Econ, +5 Econ Expansion, +8 Mysticism, +4 Culture, +2 Tech, +10 Martial, new core province)
[X][React] Megaproject - The Games
-[X][React] Kick Megaproject
[X][Policy] Special: Forestry (+1 Sustainable Forest and -1 Econ Expansion/2 turns)
[X][Policy] Infrastructure (+1 Free Progress to an infrastructure project (Aqueduct, governor's palace, saltern, etc.)/turn) x1
[X][Bonus] Upgrade a random value

As this will be a administrative gygo, changing my hero vote.
 
Candesce said:
And we don't need more infrastructure policy for this.
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We DO need more infrastructure to get Salterns, Roads, Annexes, etc. You are making it sound like an Infrastructure Policy is going to go out there and build nothing but aqueducts, which isn't at all what we should expect.

Furthermore, if the Infrastructure Policy wants to build even a large number of aqueducts (say, 3-4), it will do that over time regardless. Throttling the policy just means that it takes longer, so we never get to move on to our other Extended Megaprojects.
 
Susano said:
Well, these backstabbing barbarians will now pay the price for what they've done. Plus, maybe it'll help us to keep the iron genie in the bottle for a while longer,
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We can punish them, but taking their land is more trouble than it's worth. But biting it and salting the ground isn't the Ymaryn way. Not to mention it leaves a power vacuum for other , also unfriendly neighbors.

The iron genie is out of the bottle. There's more than one civilization that has access to iron. And even if we do genocide the HK, do you think we'll be able to stop every smith or merchant of theirs from escaping?

It's been hundreds, maybe even a thousand, years since we've discovered how to make iron. How do long do people realistically expect us to be the only ones who know how to work it?

The only way to maintain a tech edge is constant innovation, not by clamping down on knowledge. Not only does it not work, but it also slows down your innovation.
 
Candesce said:
Passive policies are for marathons, not sprints.

You want something done fast, use the active policy or our mains. Not the very-expensive-to-change passives.
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Agreed, Passive is for marathons.
5 progress - 2 aqueducts
9 progress - 3 libraries
6 progress - 2 temples
6 progress - 2 salterns

And that's what I'd like in the next ~3 turns. I'm not getting it, but all of that would be very useful to have. It requires 26 progress, and right now we're getting 3 per turn. Going to 5 would get this tiny part done in an acceptable amount of time (~5 turns).

And we can easily throw in some walls to help out there. Within the next ~10 turns I'd like us to have ~4 aqueducts and a correspondingly larger amount of everything else.

Getting a city 1 turn sooner gives us 1 more policy that we can spend on something else. My optimal would be to stay on 3 Infrastructures, making sure that all our critical infrastructure never falls behind.

edit: Also, Expansion never had a good reason to make forests. If our trails ever start getting bad, Infrastructure will fix them for us if it starts becoming narratively obvious
 
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BungieONI said:
Do you have a Mystic vote for Dragon Lady? [Honest curiosity]
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I don't know which one she would prefer (AN said she wants peace, but not which is the most peaceful choice). I will vote with the majority on this.


PrimalShadow said:
Everyone voting Special Forestry. We've been told that it DOESN'T give forest innovation rolls. Are you really okay wasting that benefit?
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Yes, we need much more forests and do not have the actions available.

It DOES make forest related innovation rolls more likely. So while it isn't a guaranteed innovation rolls, there is still a chance.

Academia Nut said:
notgreat said: ↑
Does the Special: Forestry policy provide the innovation rolls from the Study Forest that was baked into our Expand Forest action?
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No, although it does make forest related innovation rolls more likely.
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