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Paths of Civilization

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[X] Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)

Oh fuck yes. We managed to beat the hell out of a 3 on one, including one nominal peer, to the point of making all of them go "Oh holy shit, stop" in about a decade or so.

On the other hand, we managed to cause 100k casualties between sides in one battle.

When was the earliest historic IRL battle with those kinds of numbers?
 
Alectai said:
This isn't fucking CK2 where everyone is a compulsive clay stealer. If it's better for them to have a friendly neighbour to the North who's wealthy and interested in regular trade, then they'll go with it. Especially since we've proven that we don't fuck around on the battlefield and that our magic is strong. For them to want to try again even after we make it profitable for them would be the height of stupidity--and if they have an Idiot King, they're not going to be nearly as dangerous as this one with a Heroic Warleader.
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The way the war ends they "Won" which is what will be remembered by them after everyone involved dies.The King to the hill setup, and their own governing system means it is very very likely they come for us again.
 
[X] Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)

Ugh, I have been convinced.

Hopefully, this thread will vote to burn the highshits to ash next turn.
 
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Arlos said:
I'm guessing the reason we are having so much trouble despite having tons of advantages is because our military Art are completely Atrophied, we bow out of fight to often and thus don't develop them, let's hope it doesn't bit us in the ass one day.

Having our genius General be barely Sane certainly isn't going to help develop it...
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Our military arts are actually pretty great. The Pharaoh had to learn tactical phases from us to keep up.


Also a fun fact: Depending on how much martial the Trelli companies had, we just chewed up between 18 and 24 of their martial. If they have to actually raise armies, it costs them 12 Wealth.

They operated on a loss, here. A big one, even.
 
Dovahsith said:
Though seriously, this is starting to go into US Civil war levels of attrition.
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100 000 dead....our whole population is ~ 3 000 000 people.
If we've lost ~50 000 people....we've just lost 3.3% of our total population in a single battle. This left puny US Civil War behind long ago and moved onto World War I levels of casualties if other parts of war are even remotely close to this.
Holy fucking fuck. I am all for peace, losing 3% of adult males in a single battle is...bloodbath does not even begin to cover it. This is really damn total war.

[X] Acknowledge superiority (-15 Prestige, loses King of the Hill, peace, chance of +1 Stability)
[X] Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)

I was drawn into voting for war because they were invading our lands.
We get to keep our lands and showcase to Khemetri that they should not fuck with us, so...good enough for me.
 
[X] Acknowledge superiority (-15 Prestige, loses King of the Hill, peace, chance of +1 Stability)

No skin of my back. We don't want King of the Hill anyways since it only gets us into pointless wars with peer powers, we don't need the Diplo Drip and we are going to integrate several subordinates so the prestige loss isn't a problem. I don't understand why people desperately want to pay the 10 wealth only to keep a largely useless legacy and one that makes people attack us. Build high, remember.
 
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Honestly I'd rather we properly push them out, everytime we let our Ennemies get away it comes back to bit us in the ass.
Just like it happen with the Highlander.
 
According to AN, Gulvalley's still in danger.
[X] Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)
But also, by offering tribute we give the Hero we just fought the resources he needs to stage a quick coup and take over. I kind of like him, and from what I've seen of the Khem's traits and pride, this is the best deal we're going to get without turning this into a blood feud.

Also, thanks AN for giving us a pov chapter and seeing how the Khem think! Might do analysis later to see what we can learn about the Khem from it, depends if I've got time after catching up on discussion.

fictionfan said:
We can integrate ST now. Our marshal is low enough.
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I'm so excited that we're finally in a good position to do this.
 
[X] Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)
After talking it out and thinking about it, I decide to vote for this, we can rebuild and focus on the Highlanders.
The Highlanders control of passes and mines in the Hat/Gul Valley is a long term theat now that we are likely to fight the Khemetri semi-regularly.
 
Is our number of provinces listed somewhere, or does one have to look up the most recent AN statement on it or deduce it?


Also, voting for this so we're in a position to take up that Treachery CB
[X] Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)
 
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Between the amount of martial they can scrounge up in the mid-turn and the arguments about possible military tech breakthroughs in the near future, I'm reluctantly swtiching.
[X] Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)

However, I don't see the Trellis starting anything for just as long as the Khemetri. We just ground up a considerable chunk of their military strength in our little spat and the survivors wo go home will report about mountains of corpses and both sides only stopping this madness not because we couldn't go on, but because it was not worth it.
So yeah. They will keep their head down and hope to not get dragged into any further fights with or between the Khemetri or us. They have not even a fraction of the reserves they would need to survive it.
 
Thomasfoolery said:
The way the war ends they "Won" which is what will be remembered by them after everyone involved dies.The King to the hill setup, and their own governing system means it is very very likely they come for us again.
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The prince made it very clear that he wants it recorded how hard fought it all was. His descendants will look at it and probably scout first to see if we are really that scary.

Ideally, the answer to that is yes.
 
The Trelli have now lost two mercenary companies:

That is a loss of 16 martial and two subordinates, and I get the feeling that the last mercenary company is at low loyalty. To replenish these losses will take a minimum of two secondary actions, two main actions, and 12 non-martial stat points.

And in return, they got paid 3 wealth.
 
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Omegahugger said:
cross blades with them again~
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*LEWD ALERT*

McLuvin said:
Guys if we offer tribute they will come back for us and we will have to fucking do this all over again!

The Highlanders are a dagger to our south, The Khemetri will be worse, they will take another swing at us and we will have to watch them for centuries.

Voting for Tribute screws us over and kills more people in the future then it saves now
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No, it really doesn't, because paying the prince to assassinate his dad removes KotH from the Khemetri and thereby allows us to build in trade ties AND AN has confirmed it'll be at least a century before they're willing to even consider taking another shot at us. I really like our odds with another century of prep.

Gavoon said:
Doesn't that sound like they'll screw with us if we try to expand?
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If we try to do so into their lands, yes. We have lots of other directions we can grow.

Azel said:
[X] The war will continue (War continues, have mid-turn actions before next War Mission rolls to potentially regenerate forces)

I would greatly prefer to have them too busy with picking up the pieces of their empire then building up for the next invasion.
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AN confirmed they won't be willing to try to attack us again for at least a century.

Manget said:
[X] The war will continue (War continues, have mid-turn actions before next War Mission rolls to potentially regenerateforces)

Millions for defense, but not one cent for tribute.
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It's not tribute, it's a really expensive assassination of the king who started all this. Remember, proportionate justice! The common people of Khem don't need to keep bleeding to appease their arrogant overlords if we end the war here.

tenchifew said:
I see it as us paying for a really expensive assassination
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Exactly :D

Academia Nut said:
The companies folded into each other due to depletion. They are likely to abandon this campaign at the first opportunity.
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Pft. Weaklings.
 
[X] Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)

The TREES have had their fill.

Also, we're obviously the Greatest Power, as evidenced by the fact that the Khem are running away like sissy cowards with a bag of worthless baubles while we are saving thousands of Ymaryn lives.
 
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[X] Offer tribute (-5 Prestige, -10 Wealth, keeps King of the Hill, chance of +1 Stability)

I love how everybody started warming up to this choice once it became clear that the person who started the war wasn't going to profit from it.

So much for people not understanding game theory...
 
Alectai said:
In like, a century--maybe.

And then only if we fail to make it unprofitable for them to do so.

We're getting our land back, that's the important thing here. We lack the firepower though to annihilate the Khemetri at this point, not after a clusterfuck like this, and not without destroying ourselves either.

Let it end, and if they come again, it'll come against a well protected frontier.
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The Highlanders waited a century. That wait didnt make it any less painful.
We do not lack the manpower, if you had paid attention to whats been said you'd realise they will soon be on the verge of collapse.
We can win this. Your choice will not 'let it end' it will only make this the beginning. All because you lacked the foresight to save the lives of future generations. When the Khem next come for us I'll point the the corpses of the dead and make you admit that you caused this
 
Candesce said:
The people voting for continuing the war certainly won't learn from those consequences, so I don't see the point.
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Well, the point is that it'll be interesting, even if that interesting turns out to be the "you have been subjugated by nomads who have burnt the Sacred Forest down" kind of interesting.

Or the "whoops we accidentally the Khemetri, what do with all these new provinces and rebellious populace, how do I empire" kind of interesting.
 
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DakkaMania said:
The prince made it very clear that he wants it recorded how hard fought it all was. His descendants will look at it and probably scout first to see if we are really that scary.
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Yes, cultural narrative changes to suite people though. They'll remember we were tough, but that will only make the victory they remember taking from us all the sweeter after a few generations. If the KotH function didn't exist I think we'd have much better odds of peace, but it does and will be a constant cultural irritant for them. They''ll feel they deserve it and since they'll keep a colony bordering us they'll never be able to forget about it.
 
Arlos said:
Honestly I'd rather we properly push them out, everytime we let our Ennemies get away it comes back to bit us in the ass.
Just like it happen with the Highlander.
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Unfortunately, The Nomad Waaaghs gathering forces our hand - but hey: at the very least we can take out the HK for practically certain this time and the Trelli are quite likely gonna keep being slavers so let's deal with them, too!
The Trelli are the main gain in my eyes, though: turning them into a tributary/vassal to feed us more Wealth sounds promising - and we can use such Wealth to keep mercenary-companies or just outright soldiers to keep them secure while we finally tango with Khemetri again.
 
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