- Location
- Canada
Build them everywhere including the sky? I figured as a secondary project it would be preparing to build more around the frontier settlements and fortified existing ones. However since I was wrong I will simply get rid of that vote.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Mutually assured pain in the back side via plague? They can toss dead bodies everywhere and let the summer months and animal scavengers cook something up.
Or just mass blood sacrifices and see if they get something.
Or abandoning their main settlement and set WC and ST bicker over ownership. While quietly move elsewhere to spread their bloody way.
Yes, I've been imagining the horror stories of the people that flee the land. It would make for an interesting birth of a legend.
- Location
- Austria
- Location
- Australia
I think the war should've waited at least 1 turn. If we had waited, we would've already had the trails by now as the Secondary action that went into War Action wouldn't have been locked to that. As for the DP's level of success, they would've been holding steady/slightly winning - a difference that would not have equalled what we would've gotten by getting New Trails done a turn early.
After reading what people have said and thinking about it, I think I'm going to switch back to my original vote. Getting the settlement up a generation early is more important than getting the Step-Farms.
[X] Spirit Talkers (Another Spiritual Value likely)
[X] [Main] Restoration of Harmony
[X][Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Dead Priests
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Spirit Talkers (Another Spiritual Value likely)
[X] [Main] Restoration of Harmony
[X][Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Dead Priests
[X] [Main] Restoration of Harmony
[X][Secondary] New Trails
[X] [Secondary] War Mission - Dead Priests
- Location
- Australia
@Academia Nut, I have a question regarding the founding of a new settlement. How does it affect Economy when it's a Main action compared to if it were a Secondary action?
- Location
- Sydney
Agree mostly, it would have been better to commit to the war, but delay it for a single turn. The first bandwagon was ignoring the war, then after people realized we had to go to war the argument became about who to support. The proposal of war but after a turn to rebuild never emerged. The question asked was "Commit to a War Expedition against the Dead Priests next turn " and commit but delay by one was not considered an option.
@Academia Nut If we had asked the WC (before beginning the war) would delaying one more turn been accepted?
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- Location
- Hell
I should think so
The Option of of War Mission - Death Priests has been there for generations. It would have still been there to start at our own discretion if we had chosen to stay out.
- Location
- Austria
Well, we can't exactly back out now.
Also, as per AN, our people want more food and more places to grow food. I think that turn of food+festival+restore harmony would be ultimate stability-restoration.
I honestly want to change this turn's vote to [main] farms? fishery? + [secondary] Festival+War Mission, and do trails and shit next time.
Surprisingly, we have a solution for that: Have half-exiles gather the stuff, throw it into a pit, then set it on fire and bury the fire.
It would cause some further unhappiness first(and possibly permanently cement an underclass of waste handlers), but when we fixed up the blighted forest we almost certainly ran across graves and dead bodies that needed to be disposed of from dead settlements in the area.
Well, if they wanted to accelerate their fall, cool
...you'd think that the New Trails->Walled Settlement approach to making war fulfills all of those:
-New settlements means a new zone of autospreading farms. So more food.
-Lowlands is a new place. It's good for growing food.
-Lowlands is closer to DPs. It's good for killing them all.
-Lowlands is closer to the WC. It's good for trading more luxuries?
Well, it's an old thing now, but as presented at the time, it was to:
-Help the Spirit Talkers(which players didn't like) with a landgrab
-Help the Western Confederacy with a landgrab and take a slice for ourself
-Let them fight it out and then deal with the winner(either Dead Priests or Spirit Talkers).
At that time, the Dead Priests did not seem quite nearly as powerful, which we should have realized considering we've never even seen a Dead Priest in person until last turn.
In reality it was closer to:
-Join the Spirit Talkers in kicking Dead Priest ass. This ensures the Dead Priests are whupped, as combined we have more than enough martial to seriously ruin their day and the Spirit Talkers are exceptionally good at dealing with Dead Priest psychological tactics.
-Join the Western Confederacy to help the underdog and ensure that things drag out a nice long time.
-Let the Dead Priests grow unchecked while they kicked everyone around them and turned it into more growth
That, and I suspect we would have lost the option to coordinate attacks. Remember, despite the difficulty of the raids so far, we're doing combined raids with the Western Confederacy. Trying to raid the DPs on our own at this distance would be frustratingly futile.
People who want food and more food are best fulfilled by claiming a new settlement on good farmland.
*Eyes the historically super awesome farmland we can claim now*
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Do realize that the first two items on the list aren't going to change for several thousand years.
You start getting larger returns faster.
- Location
- Panama City
So basically, either a village that has walls(and possibly gets raided a couple times before the walls go up, though unlikely){Settlement Main}, or what amounts to a fort with a small farming community in support{Walls main}
- Location
- Austria
It's in the middle of warzone...well, not exactly in the middle, but well within raiding range, so economical benefits will be pretty shit until we deal with DPs and make peace with Spirit Talkers/Confederacy enraged by us settling in the lowlands.
Except for trading and logistical uses - it can become hub for those almost immediately.
So what are safety margins on food now? I thought by 'need food' you meant 'safety margins are kinda slim now' or something.
Which would mesh pretty weirdly with us sitting on Econ 3, but what do i know.
We can always expand around the small fort after we win the war, but we really need the frontline strongpoint, to give both our traders and our warriors staging post.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Among the People few people go hungry but rarely is anyone full. Given that food security is encoded in religion as shorthand for paradise, it's not something that is going away anytime soon.
Trade hub, and agricultural hotspot.
Remember raids, not modern wars.
They cannot attack in the Spring planting season because there are floods. They can attack in the Summer, but damaging the fields is much harder and slower than it sounds, you'd basically need a decisive victory to do more than superficial damage to the harvest. Then the Autumn comes with another stormy season, which means light flooding again, which screws attacks at random. Then Winter...well if you want to fight in winter, go nuts
Assuming the settlement itself has sentries and scouts, the farmers generally can make it behind the walls well before a raid gets there.
Note that we're counting our food in terms of "how many years of ruined harvest can we live through?" when everyone else is counting food in terms of "do I have enough this year?"
- Location
- Austria
They can still raze anything outside the walls and stuff, depending on circumstances, so...it is guaranteed to be useful as logistical hub, and that's what matters.
And that's a situation I would like to keep - which may well require us to expand food supply to maintain.
Actually, we are freaking fortunate to have Salt (we do have it, right?) - it is pretty great at conserving food stuff, IIRC. We need another spices to make our supplies last even longer, but that would require a lot of sailing probably.
As in, they can't. Starting fires is not easy. It takes large amounts of dry fuel(which a raid force of a few dozen dudes on foot cannot carry much and still fight) and time to build a significant fire, unless they can occupy the fields for a few days straight to set fires, particularly in properly irrigated and spaced out fields. They can smash retaining walls and the like, but again, ours are built of wood and stone, nontrivial effort to break. Roughly equivalent to going to a McDonalds and stealing everything currently on the fryer before running away as the security comes. The manager won't be happy, but it's effect on the daily take is negligible.
So no, they can't raze much unless they beat our warriors while on our own ground and outnumbered. The majority of a raid's damage happens when they attack your settlement granaries and other stores, where a large number of valuables are stored in a concentrated manner to destroy or steal, with a significant amount if they reach your fields without anyone seeing them(so they can attack your civilians working the fields).
We have salting, drying and smoking for food preservation methods. We also have fairly advanced pottery and the ability to convert grains to flour and store it that way.
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- Location
- Austria
Given who are we talking about, they may well outnumber our garrison depending on circumstances, and one-on-one their warriors are better. So losing everything around the walls is very bad case scenario, but not out of the question.
Of course, them beating up garrison if there are no walls is incredibly more disastrous, up to and including Economy drop and Stability drop and Martial drop and Diplomacy drop, so I have no idea why people want to risk not going for walls ASAP - especially since some of those same people voted for walling coastal settlement, which is the furthest one from any frontline until someone develops sailing to the level of raiding and decides to attack us.
They are a raiding force with limited logistic support. Meanwhile, the clock is ticking until reinforcement arrives.
- Location
- Austria
They are also good enough at war to construct megaproject which involves >100k skulls while being at war with both STs and WCs. They must have at least Military 6 and Economy 3-5 to support this shit. And high Centralization...3-5, I guess, with one megacity and enough coordination to build Wonder.
(Their Diplo is probably 0 or negative though)
Besides, without walls they are not on a timer. They just need to defeat defending force, and they are the strongest military in the region. If they want to defeat and raze unwalled settlement, they will.
Heck, remember how several turns ago they purged unnamed tribe to their east? They did it while building megaproject, if I understand the timing correctly. They are strong enough to wipe out another faction (or at least tribe) while building megaproject, while we were struggling to protect ourselves in the hills with bonuses to defending our lands. That's definitely Mil 6 at the very least, and their main action was taken by The Wall - now it is free for military usage.
So...I doubt we have a good chance of protecting unwalled settlement within their raiding range - we have a chance, but it probably will be some sort of 1 in 10 odds or so. Maybe 1 in 5, 1 in 3 tops.
Well, if we built settlements without walls there...we pretty much deserve what happens if they raid it.
But if we built walls it's very unlikely that they can outright overwhelm a garrison force with a raid group without a bigger advantage than what they have. If you think about it, they rarely hit hard targets, since their raids are economic in nature. Any raid they lose warriors in is a bad deal.
Archers are bullshit if defending behind walls. Especially on a field which they've thoroughly ranged, with powerful bows.
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redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Fun fact, I started a stellaris game based off of this quest.
In the future, our people look like elves, act like dwarves, and come from a hilly tropical forest planet.
The sacred forest has consumed the world.
In the future, our people look like elves, act like dwarves, and come from a hilly tropical forest planet.
The sacred forest has consumed the world.