In 3 generations they would have recovered from their megaproject. Maybe even having greatly weakened the WC. Please stop trying to say "let's just take actions that mostly ignore the war." We've basically been told we need those trails to wage anything approaching a reasonable force on them, since our carts will otherwise have immense difficulty getting through the hills. Our settlement/fort we want to build will have to be done so as fast as we are physically possible, which means we need the roads to haul the materials there faster. Step Farms also do not provide good nutrition for our fighters, that would be pastures and fishing, both of which we want to get after establishing this forward base.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Hyacinthium
Writing about sad cannibals as we speak.
- Location
- Bedroom
- Pronouns
- He/Him
If you want to do a food action; We should do Pastures over more Step-Farms. Pasture gives us animals to use with our carts, as well as providing the food that our people want.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Okay, so there are three and a half rivers you need to be concerned about:
1.) River in the valley with your first settlement, which eventually reaches a stretch where it becomes unnavigable due to a series of rapids (the cataracts), and it stabilizes when it gets past the badlands and empties into the lowlands. This is one of two major river systems in the lowlands.
2.) The river system that empties into the sea at the coastal village. The smaller river that has the waterfall where your first holy site is joins up with this larger river
3.) The Dead Priests city is on a second river system
Essentially, your settlement is on the Euphrates, while theirs is on the Tigris.
It is not accessible by water from your main settlement due to a series of rapids, and must be portaged past (actually due to the lay of the land, its easier to just take a land route from the start)
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
WAR CANOE
According to some documentary about Voyageurs (Canadian fur traders), a 12 crew canoe can carry up to 3 tons of stuff. All the while being light and sturdy enough to be carried by hand across river systems. Something to think about, a large piece of wood that is light enough and carry tons. Also surprised by human imagination and inventions.
And I have already done several analysis, along with other people, as to what our strong econ actions are. Step farms are not one of them. Our best food econ is Pastures, since it provides proper nutrition for healthy fighters. Our best Defensive Econ action is Expand Woods, since it turns the area into our home field. Honorable mention to fishing, which gives us protein still. Step Farms just aren't viable now, we have other things we need to focus on and we need to be more efficient with what our actions do. Step farms do not give us defensive bonuses, all of the fighting will be on flat lands, econ is better gained through other actions.
- Location
- Panama City
Unfortunately, while it sounds like such a canoe can be portaged across the rapids, it's simply quicker to go by land to the particular location we want.
- Location
- Australia
It will be 2 generations this turn and our contributions have been minor to negligible, so I'll have to dispute your claim that our involvement has made any difference in regards to the WC's status. I'm not saying we shouldn't do the trails, just that this turn isn't the best time to do them. If we rush the settlement process we'll be low on or without Economy when we start picking Expand Warriors/War Carts after we're done with it, so an Economy action now will ensure we still have some left in the tank when we've done all the preparations to ramp up the war. Step farms may not provide good nutrition for our fighters, but that's not the point. The point is to increase Economy which is what step farms will do, with the added bonuses of finishing off the technology in preparation for the new settlement.
Are you not paying attention to the carefully laid out calculations to make sure we don't go low on econ? In any of a great number of scenarios? Especially considering Establishing a settlement is an econ positive action after a turn or so?
- Location
- Panama City
I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here, what with you ignoring our points. Step farms simply builds farms, while the other econ actions give more benefits. If you're dead set on an econ action this turn, please choose something else.
So if we built the dam the dead priests main city would remain unaffected, are any of their lesser settlements along our river? I'm just wondering if the dam mega project would affect any of the dead priests settlements at all.
- Location
- Panama City
I believe he said that it wouldn't, really. It might affect some outlying settlements, but it would definitely not affect the main settlement. Which means if we do it, it won't be for screwing them over it would be for us.
VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Minor note about food production
Expand Pastures - Cow and other beasts grow faster and stronger when they eat crops instead of grass. So they are not cheap food wise. But the meat are light and compact for field rations. And built human muscle too!
Expand Fishery - Early sailing are not entirely risk less, but dried/salted fish keeps for long time and have more energy then plant based food. Just watch out for reefs and unstable tide!
Expand Step Farm - Hard work for stable food. Helps dealing with large rain fall, but a lot of manpower required. Will eventually become standard farming practices, so invest early?
Expand Pastures - Cow and other beasts grow faster and stronger when they eat crops instead of grass. So they are not cheap food wise. But the meat are light and compact for field rations. And built human muscle too!
Expand Fishery - Early sailing are not entirely risk less, but dried/salted fish keeps for long time and have more energy then plant based food. Just watch out for reefs and unstable tide!
Expand Step Farm - Hard work for stable food. Helps dealing with large rain fall, but a lot of manpower required. Will eventually become standard farming practices, so invest early?
It would hurt them, but it wouldn't be a killing blow, to paraphrase.
They have an entire other river system to feed off of and their major city is on said river system.
- Location
- Panama City
please, if you really want an econ action, do something other than step-farms. We could use more animals.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Whether they're in the forest or not depends on partly on if there are non-forested areas that are close enough to work with, far enough to not smell the manure (which isn't burning, we burn and then grind the charcoal separately), and not used for other tasks. The forest, imo, is unlikely due to tree roots, though maybe the pits can be shallow enough that this doesn't matter. I also just may not have a good grasp in regard to tree roots.
We already have a great deal of food - Econ 3, remember? I'd say that "Food & Places to grow Food" are more deep-rooted cultural drives like a desire for stability and like our desire to kill the DP for insulting our deep-rooted values. Aka, this is not an urgent need. Trade goods actually can boost economy if you trade down art and diplomacy - or at least they should, considering that you can sell art and buy food.
Regardless, the sheer number of other benefits that the trail provides in 1) making the War Missions more effective and more rewarding 2) making the settlement easier to grow 3) spreading our culture are incomparable to even the benefits of my dearly beloved Step-Farms, aka the project Siv and I strenuously advocated for over the duration of this quest.
We basically do need it, unless there's a bunch of trees and stuff downriver. If it takes us a good while to build the walls and buildings and etc. the cost of feeding people rises as farms are not built and the damage from an attack rises as they have no shelters and no way of limiting access to our supplies and animals.
Please give us more descriptions of what our people know about this river. Does it terminate in a steep mountain? Is it cultivatable along its path? Have any seemingly human-manufactured items washed ashore along its banks? Are there any points with rapids? Is the sand glittery?
^
Step-Farms also might finally integrate the tech into our farm action, but honestly at this point I assume it will take a Main of it. Pastures = stronger warriors from meat, leather, horns, milk, labor; Forest = defense, food, wood; Fishing = ship tech in the far future, food; Expand Farms = as singularly useful as Step-Farms.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
The main benefit would be that it would kill/motivate to move a bunch of the settlements they prey on.
Canal is probably a wiser choice as it would integrate our valley and coastal cities by making travel between them easier and providing a length of land that would probably be farmed as we divert water from the canal.
- Location
- Australia
I know it's not an urgent need. The fact that they want it more than killing the DP just means that we can focus on ourselves instead of the DP, which is what I think we should do for now.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It goes further up into rough mountains that are not water navigable, and people have explored up there for the hell of it, but there's better land elsewhere. People likely have lived there in the past, but environmental perturbations likely drove them to abandon the areas and join up with your people. Much of its navigable length is only semi-navigable as it cuts through forested hills. A large chunk of the watershed on the western bank was the area where you fought the Blight and while much of it is still relatively wild, a few thousand people have taken up semi-permanent residence in the region to manage large chunks of the forest. There are some good flint deposits, some quartzy regions, quality clay beds, and a few spots where good sandstone can be found, but there's not much really exotic to the People's knowledge.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I'm not keen on the pastures options.
- Location
- Panama City
For what reason?
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
The conversion of plant energy to animal energy is an inefficient one; I think we could feed more people with Step-Farms than Pastures.
- Location
- Panama City
So your solution to the DPs is to stick our heads in the sand, ignore them, and hope they collapse. Sending unsupported war missions isn't going to make them go away and get us out of Holy War any faster, you know.