You're forgetting that we just retold the story (dramatically) to the nomads...including their hero. I don't think bettering rams are so complicated that you couldn't piece it together somewhat just from the story.
Battering Rams required a combination of a lot of bronze and a lot of iron, both things that nomads would rather turn into weapons unless they turned out to somehow have a gigantic excess of both, in which case we are screwed anyeas.

Also, the invention of battering rams does not invalidate walls, because it then required your enemies to protect the battering rams and cloister around it while they destroy your walls, grouping them up and making them easier targets.

This is especially true for nomads, who rely on their mobility as their greatest strength.
 
My concern is that the nations around us are soon going to start equipping their armies with iron. Walls may not be able to defeat said armies on their own, but they definitely improve the overall strategic situation dramatically.
Hmmm, any refugees that flee from the MW will most likely be gobbled up by our Green Shore colony. While nobody can be totally sure of anything in this quest, the MW have no reason to flee from us so it's unlikely that would couldn't snatch em all up.

I know my vote isn't going to win anyways, i'm just sticking with what I like more :p
 
An excerpt from an early version of The Xohyrd, recovered from an early Iron Age library in Elmáritan.

...Phygrif, rude and wanderer king, barked in judgement. / "Arasel, son of Arrantes, fool and liar, / the land of your sons will wither, and your sword-arm will fail / if you do not fight! The gods have spoken / and in their displeasure called us to holy duty. / Who are you to refrain?" / But calm Arasel was wiser than his age, solid as the hills. He spoke, / "The dread walls of Xohyr are washed in death, O king, / all the bounty of the sin within / yet there are markets there. / Wives and children move from shop to shop like bees, laden with honey. / I shall not lift my sword until our last crop of death / is gathered from wicked men, and wicked men alone. / If the gods say 'Kill', I ask first, 'Who? Why?' / though you in strange and barbarous ways / seem to think only of how soon." / But Phygrif laughed, like the thunder of hooves / beholden to the nomad horses, far to the north / and strode to Arasel. He struck him in the cheek, and Arasel fell...

Awesome!
 
And so it's better not to build any walls?



Just because the nomads know siege warfare doesn't mean building walls is utterly pointless.

I mean, look at the history of warfare. They build castles and walls. Walls and castles get breached throughout history. Does that mean walls and castles are pointless? No.

All walls have to do is be effective enough that they are worth actions spent on it.
Battering Rams required a combination of a lot of bronze and a lot of iron, both things that nomads would rather turn into weapons unless they turned out to somehow have a gigantic excess of both, in which case we are screwed anyeas.

Also, the invention of battering rams does not invalidate walls, because it then required your enemies to protect the battering rams and cloister around it while they destroy your walls, grouping them up and making them easier targets.

This is especially true for nomads, who rely on their mobility as their greatest strength.
Never said it was better not to build any walls, just that battering rams and other siege tech would come much sooner than the defensive policy would cover all our settlements in significant walls.

Honestly, in 10-15 turns i'd rather have multiple Government palaces set up in order to preserve our civ once it fractures. I'd also rather have much more watch towers so we can track enemy movements precisely and evacuate if needed or ambush them. I just feel that significant walls won't be as effective.
 
Never said it was better not to build any walls, just that battering rams and other siege tech would come much sooner than the defensive policy would cover all our settlements in significant walls.
Even if the nomads breached a wall, that would force them to fight at one point, which negates their mobility advantage.
 
[X][Main] The Law (Iron Age)
[X][Secondary] Proclaim Glory
[X][Secondary] Plant Hemp
[X][Free] Change Passive Policy - Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X][Free] Found Colony - Change Greenshore Trading Post to a Colony


Can i seriously ask you guys why you're voting for hemp?

It's great, yes, but we have a lot of stuff that we actually need right now, and hemp isn't it.

One of the Catamaran requirements is a revised design in sails. This would be greatly improved by Hemp access.

I'd be more worried about the Hawks jumping ship. We've never influenced them, so if a big Nomad Waaugh showed up, there's a risk they'd join it rather than help fight it off.

Not that I don't think we'd get warning if that were going to happen, buuut we might not be in position to do anything about it.
Probably won't happen until they are Loyalty 2 at least, they've built some nice stuff they probably won't like to give up.
Yo, ppl voting for PG, why??
a) we won't hit a Golden Age any time soon.
b) More Boats gives us catamarans so we'll finally be on even footing w/ the Trell & it synergizes well w/ Hemp.
a) Golden Age would be nice, but we want to be able to afford some moderately difficult choices. Starting the Law on maximum Stability gives us more opportunities for progressive or long term beneficial reforms as people are more willing to tolerate their way of life being fucked over while the changes settle out.

b) It sure does, but More Boats will also pop Sacred Forest quicker because it generates LTE. It'd negate the effects of Plant Hemp on Expansion space.

You're likely to leave behind decent records, although it's impossible to say what will survive and what will be blown away by the sands of time.

It's technically costing Tech in the Main, but Best of the Best is turning some of that into Wealth cost instead.

Hmm, on the records, I expect there might be a continuity gap as Vellum records are transcribed over to Paper when we get there. Paper is really much more durable AND cheaper than parchment, which didn't tend to age very gracefully in storage.

And the Best of the Best's narrative effect on that is a treat. Basically any high level research endeavor gets extra funding and better materials to cover for any lack of materials and technique?

It's a measure of how much trail coverage you have. Also, I thought back and realized that it should be at least 5/14.
Truly a tragic state of affairs.

  1. The WHOLE POINT of forming a mercenary company while we integrate the Stallions isn't to gain an extra mercenary company, but to lose enough Martial so that we aren't 5-10 points past our cap.
  2. Anyway, a normal mercenary company is martial 8, not martial 10; not much difference from that and what we get from a double-main. Except of course the afore-mentioned martial drain we want, 8 points of resources we don't have to spend, and an extra main we don't need.

Actually, remember we still need a garrison force up north, so if we remove the Stallions it would be highly recommended to maintain a Company there for defense, though admittedly it's not super urgent with the horde turned away for now.

Apparently that's one of the uses of the dam mega project. If we build it in the right place we can create a shallow lake in which we can learn how to use aquaculture.

The Lower Valleyhome and Cataract sites should be suitable. Cataracts especially, flooded slot canyons should also make excellent fishery habitats because of the high underwater surface area, which breeds algae and other water plants for fish to feed on and shelter young.

By then nomads would've gotten siege tech and rendered our significant walls less than useful :(
Noting that this is a gross exaggeration.
-Minor Walls
--Without rams - Surmountable at human and morale cost as you could physically vault such a wall.
--With uncovered rams - Allows an overwhelming force to suppress defenders by archery, then pound through the gates to breach without the cost.
--With covered rams - Allows a peer force to force the gates and then march in.

-Significant Walls
--Without rams - Go home.
--With uncovered rams - Allows an overwhelming force to suppress defenders by archery, then pound through the gates to breach at great cost.
--With covered rams - Allows a superior force to force the gates and then march in.

-Massive Walls
--Without rams - Go home
--With uncovered rams - Allows an overwhelming force to suppress defenders by archery, then pound through the gates to breach at great cost...then to try to breach the second gate at even greater cost in the killing zone.
--With covered rams - Allows a superior force to force the gates and then march in....then try to breach the second gate at immense cost because you can't fit the ram inside easily.

-Colossal Walls
--Without rams - Go home
--With uncovered rams - Go home
--With covered rams - Go home

Siegecraft is not a discipline which favors nomads, since it relies heavily on staying power over mobility. Surmounting walls is difficult until the siege tower. Breaching gates is difficult without covered rams.

Forcing a breached gate is an exercise that favors shieldwalls and heavy infantry to plug the gap rather than light raiders.
I just remembered...we just had a bunch of people dramatically retell the fall of the Xoh's captial, right? How much does everyone wanna bet that the story would possibly inspire nomads to invent the battering ram they heard about in the story?
No bets, though they'd be coming up with the man-carried ram rather than the suspended ram, which is significantly less powerful(as in maybe a fifth as much impact force, and scales poorly per man added, whereas the suspended ram scales up with manpower provided you had the discipline or cultural base to synch up 30 dudes pounding in perfect symphony).
I have to apologize to @veekie. I denounced him for fearmongering for suggesting numbers like this. Mea culpa, beetle bro. Forgive a Wise Wolf's folly?
It's fine. I only noticed the sheer scope because of constant turn by turn analysis that our roads were in a ruinous condition.

It's easy to overlook.
I really want to try out our new level of double main roads once the fires die down for just one blasted turn though.
 
Even if the nomads breached a wall, that would force them to fight at one point, which negates their mobility advantage.
Usually if an enemy force is besieging a city, then the defending group has lost a significant amount of soldiers and has to wait for reinforcements. I don't think our people would just bottle up a war mission full of warriors in a city, just to wait for the wall to be breached.
 
Usually if an enemy force is besieging a city, then the defending group has lost a significant amount of soldiers and has to wait for reinforcements. I don't think our people would just bottle up a war mission full of warriors in a city, just to wait for the wall to be breached.
To be honest, if it actually gets to the point that one of our cities is being sieged by nomads with a battering ram, we are probably in full frenzy mode and kicking war missions out of the wazoo.
 
o_O I thought we were in Palace economy? How do we switch to manorial?

Ehh, that's only if the city being besieged has a river. The canals won't be covered by the defense policy and will take lots of time to unlock and build.
I assume he is implying that with manorial economy, the city would be autonomous enough to get its own food to survive a siege. If so, that really doesn't make sense considering its food supply would still be based around the fields outside of the walls so you would have to rely on the docks and rivers to get food regardless of what type of economy you run.
 
Would you happen to be a historian good sir?

Don't need to be an historian. Everyone remembers the Library of Alexandria. Actually, the loss of knowledge isn't that bad, but it is the most powerful symbol of the loss of cultural knowledge.

Part of the loss of knowledge probably come from people thinking "ah, this ain't important" and not copying it over.

Meanwhile, all we can do is build more temples and more libraries and hope that a lot of knowledge get preserved. And make sure we don't fall apart and things like that.

Also help if other civilizations have libraries too, like what the Arab did with Greek works.
 
[X][Main] The Law (Iron Age)
[X][Secondary] Proclaim Glory
[X][Secondary] Plant Hemp
[X][Free] Change Passive Policy - Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X][Free] Found Colony - Change Greenshore Trading Post to a Colony
 
[X][Main] The Law (Iron Age)
[X][Secondary] Proclaim Glory
[X][Secondary] Plant Hemp
[X][Free] Change Passive Policy - Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X][Free] Found Colony - Change Greenshore Trading Post to a Colony
 
Tallying :p
[X][Main] The Law (Iron Age)
[X][Secondary] Proclaim Glory
[X][Secondary] Plant Hemp
[X][Free] Change Passive Policy - Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X][Free] Found Colony - Change Greenshore Trading Post to a Colony
Adhoc vote count started by Ghostdevil on Jul 24, 2017 at 12:11 AM, finished with 83357 posts and 71 votes.
 
@Academia Nut any chance of an update this evening?

Edit: guessing not, but

Rejoice! Your wish will come true!

This will be a shorter update, focusing upon the Law megaproject, with tomorrow being about international affairs.

Locking in

[X][Main] The Law (Iron Age)
[X][Secondary] Proclaim Glory
[X][Secondary] Plant Hemp
[X][Free] Change Passive Policy - Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X][Free] Found Colony - Change Greenshore Trading Post to a Colony​
 
Rejoice! Your wish will come true!

This will be a shorter update, focusing upon the Law megaproject, with tomorrow being about international affairs.

Locking in

[X][Main] The Law (Iron Age)
[X][Secondary] Proclaim Glory
[X][Secondary] Plant Hemp
[X][Free] Change Passive Policy - Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X][Free] Found Colony - Change Greenshore Trading Post to a Colony​
Three updates in two days? Thanks!
 
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