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Paths of Civilization

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pbluekan said:
We have little need for any other passive policy besides infrastructure, forestry, or vassal support. Any of these four will work.
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I actually think we have great need for the defensive policy.

With Divine Stewards, walls are a very good thing for us, but they're just never urgent enough to get done directly. Enter passive policies! With +1 significant walls every turn, they'll have us going full hedgehog in the background. Within a few generations, we'll be able to no-sell nomads.
 
Academia Nut said:
The Fall of Xohyr is a grand tragedy. Phygrif is portrayed of as something of a nasty son of a bitch, but admirable in his determination to see a threat removed. Phygrif is something of a background element however, as the majority of the attention is upon a series of grand heroes (their identities haven't really stabilized yet, they are semi- to entirely-fictional in any case) in the shadow of the walls. The play/poem itself is ahistorical in that the majority of the time is spent in the shadow of the skull wall and is something of an exploration of the horrors of war and the nature of virtue and honour. The ending, with the destruction of the city, is left morally ambiguous, as while the deaths of the Xohyr nobility and priesthood is seen of as being necessary, the destruction of the city takes a major toll on the heroes, and can be regarded of as "The wrong choice for all the right reasons".
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...How do you do this so well???
 
Academia Nut said:
The Fall of Xohyr is a grand tragedy. Phygrif is portrayed of as something of a nasty son of a bitch, but admirable in his determination to see a threat removed. Phygrif is something of a background element however, as the majority of the attention is upon a series of grand heroes (their identities haven't really stabilized yet, they are semi- to entirely-fictional in any case) in the shadow of the walls. The play/poem itself is ahistorical in that the majority of the time is spent in the shadow of the skull wall and is something of an exploration of the horrors of war and the nature of virtue and honour. The ending, with the destruction of the city, is left morally ambiguous, as while the deaths of the Xohyr nobility and priesthood is seen of as being necessary, the destruction of the city takes a major toll on the heroes, and can be regarded of as "The wrong choice for all the right reasons".
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Good. I don't want our people to start glorifying atrocities.
 
Academia Nut said:
The Fall of Xohyr is a grand tragedy. Phygrif is portrayed of as something of a nasty son of a bitch, but admirable in his determination to see a threat removed. Phygrif is something of a background element however, as the majority of the attention is upon a series of grand heroes (their identities haven't really stabilized yet, they are semi- to entirely-fictional in any case) in the shadow of the walls. The play/poem itself is ahistorical in that the majority of the time is spent in the shadow of the skull wall and is something of an exploration of the horrors of war and the nature of virtue and honour. The ending, with the destruction of the city, is left morally ambiguous, as while the deaths of the Xohyr nobility and priesthood is seen of as being necessary, the destruction of the city takes a major toll on the heroes, and can be regarded of as "The wrong choice for all the right reasons".
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So...it's our Troy?
 
[X] [Main] The Law (Iron Age)
[X][Secondary] Plant Hemp
[X] [Secondary] More Boats
[X] [Free] Change Passive Policy - Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X][Free] Found Colony - Change Greenshore Trading Post to a Colony
 
Academia Nut said:
The Fall of Xohyr is a grand tragedy. Phygrif is portrayed of as something of a nasty son of a bitch, but admirable in his determination to see a threat removed. Phygrif is something of a background element however, as the majority of the attention is upon a series of grand heroes (their identities haven't really stabilized yet, they are semi- to entirely-fictional in any case) in the shadow of the walls. The play/poem itself is ahistorical in that the majority of the time is spent in the shadow of the skull wall and is something of an exploration of the horrors of war and the nature of virtue and honour. The ending, with the destruction of the city, is left morally ambiguous, as while the deaths of the Xohyr nobility and priesthood is seen of as being necessary, the destruction of the city takes a major toll on the heroes, and can be regarded of as "The wrong choice for all the right reasons".
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Oh golly, we have literally Iliad. That's great.
 
Academia Nut said:
The Fall of Xohyr is a grand tragedy. Phygrif is portrayed of as something of a nasty son of a bitch, but admirable in his determination to see a threat removed. Phygrif is something of a background element however, as the majority of the attention is upon a series of grand heroes (their identities haven't really stabilized yet, they are semi- to entirely-fictional in any case) in the shadow of the walls. The play/poem itself is ahistorical in that the majority of the time is spent in the shadow of the skull wall and is something of an exploration of the horrors of war and the nature of virtue and honour. The ending, with the destruction of the city, is left morally ambiguous, as while the deaths of the Xohyr nobility and priesthood is seen of as being necessary, the destruction of the city takes a major toll on the heroes, and can be regarded of as "The wrong choice for all the right reasons".
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Huh... that's actually something I am kinda okay with.

I also love that our hypothetical Fate/stay night adventures will have some totally fictional heroes to draw from, though not someone like say Medusa.
 
Lilithium said:
It makes amazing things. I think I once posted a big post with links on this, but hemp is humanity's best botanical friend that there is. The sheer amount of usages that hemp has is unbelievable.

And that's not even counting recreational drug use. The only reason hemp gets such a bad rep is due to reputation sabotage by competing industries way back when.
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I know the benifits, it fueled the age of sail. But am questioning the specific action of taking a singular secondary. Unlike vines and poppies it not a high luxury good that can have benifits at low quantities. It's an extremely high consumption mundane good, a few farms will provide novelty rather than any widespread application.
And because I know that perseverance in voting strategems is but a myth, I wouldn't wish for this Secondary to be the sole action taken for hemp within the next dozen turns.
I mean vineyards took bloody half a millennium to get another addition. And they had immediate benefits.
 
Academia Nut said:
The Fall of Xohyr is a grand tragedy. Phygrif is portrayed of as something of a nasty son of a bitch, but admirable in his determination to see a threat removed. Phygrif is something of a background element however, as the majority of the attention is upon a series of grand heroes (their identities haven't really stabilized yet, they are semi- to entirely-fictional in any case) in the shadow of the walls. The play/poem itself is ahistorical in that the majority of the time is spent in the shadow of the skull wall and is something of an exploration of the horrors of war and the nature of virtue and honour. The ending, with the destruction of the city, is left morally ambiguous, as while the deaths of the Xohyr nobility and priesthood is seen of as being necessary, the destruction of the city takes a major toll on the heroes, and can be regarded of as "The wrong choice for all the right reasons".
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That sounds like we might be getting closer to regaining Nobility in Humility.
 
[X] [Main] The Law (Iron Age)
[X][Secondary] Plant Hemp
[X] [Secondary] More Boats
[X] [Free] Change Passive Policy - Defence (+1 significant walls/turn)
[X][Free] Found Colony - Change Greenshore Trading Post to a Colony

Convinced on the Hemp.
 
Raichu1972 said:
That sounds like we might be getting closer to regaining Nobility in Humility.
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What it really sounds like to me? Some mish mash of the thread's collective attitude about it after it happened and we had talked it through.

Which just confirms my headcannon if true that we are the Ymaryn Collective Unconscious, whispering in their souls.
 
@BungieONI @Susano I just want to wrap up the earlier conversation here rather than leave it on an uncertain note that may spark later tensions.

The main point I was trying to prove was not to convince you of which was an inherently better option - that ship had already sailed considering the vote had been locked in by the time I said anything. I just wanted to demonstrate that it was NOT a dead-end shiny - to change the mindset we approach votes so to speak. I just wanted all votes to be considered equally rather than dismissed as "shiny-chasing"
 
PyrrosWarrior said:
@BungieONI @Susano I just want to wrap up the earlier conversation here rather than leave it on an uncertain note that may spark later tensions.

The main point I was trying to prove was not to convince you of which was an inherently better option - that ship had already sailed considering the vote had been locked in by the time I said anything. I just wanted to demonstrate that it was NOT a dead-end shiny - to change the mindset we approach votes so to speak. I just wanted all votes to be considered equally rather than dismissed as "shiny-chasing"
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That's fine.
 
BungieONI said:
What it really sounds like to me? Some mish mash of the thread's collective attitude about it after it happened and we had talked it through.

Which just confirms my headcannon if true that we are the Ymaryn Collective Unconscious, whispering in their souls.
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The fact we can get bonuses from voting in sync kind of makes it the only logical theory and is all but confirmed. I'm pretty sure the only way to disprove it for me is if the Wan states otherwise.
 
Raichu1972 said:
That sounds like we might be getting closer to regaining Nobility in Humility.
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Ehhh...not really, just more of Not Being Assholes and developing humanism. Combination of Symphony (we are in this together, so us humans being divided is a tragedy), Greater Justice (while priests of Xohyr did deserve it, thousands of commoners did not) and CA (they were all still human beings).
 
Academia Nut said:
It's set to pop and isn't being calculated for, but if you can get Econ Expansion low enough this turn it will technically not pop for the purposes of refunds.



There's like a thousand miles between their current target and the TS, and they intend to take over the not!Carpathians and not!Carpathian basin, so no, not particularly.
Nope.
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Good to know.

And neat, protoMagyars!

Academia Nut said:
They're part of the general mish-mash of not!PIE groups.
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Aww, not quite. Guess they're more of an early offshoot that had the same idea, is all.
maximillian said:
I know the benifits, it fueled the age of sail. But am questioning the specific action of taking a singular secondary. Unlike vines and poppies it not a high luxury good that can have benifits at low quantities. It's an extremely high consumption mundane good, a few farms will provide novelty rather than any widespread application.
And because I know that perseverance in voting strategems is but a myth, I wouldn't wish for this Secondary to be the sole action taken for hemp within the next dozen turns.
I mean vineyards took bloody half a millennium to get another addition. And they had immediate benefits.
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Eh, even this single action will increase demand for them. Once there is a modest supply, our boat builders will discover how useful ropes are in sailing.

This will increase demand for them.
 
Can i seriously ask you guys why you're voting for hemp?

It's great, yes, but we have a lot of stuff that we actually need right now, and hemp isn't it.
 
pblur said:
On a globe:

That big plain in the middle of the ring of mountains (in modern Hungary). The Black Sea is the body of water to the East, with the Bosphorus/Trelli/Constantinople/Istanbul at the little land bridge across the strait.
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Woooooow, that is a really pretty map. Where did you get it oh great and wise sheep who is definitely not a wolf? This shark must know so he can swim those beautiful blue depths.
 
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ctulhuslp said:
Ehhh...not really, just more of Not Being Assholes and developing humanism. Combination of Symphony (we are in this together, so us humans being divided is a tragedy), Greater Justice (while priests of Xohyr did deserve it, thousands of commoners did not) and CA (they were all still human beings).
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Well for one, it shows Phygrif as an ass, if a determined one, which is contrary to many in the thread's belief that we would whitewash it and remember him as a glorious savior and protector of babies.

It also was mostly about the horrors of war, which shows that we in general do not glorify war and conquest and care more about the aftermath.

These both seem like humble things to me, but it could just be wishful thinking.
 
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