I mean the backlog of mega prohects cause if this keeps up then the river will dry out before we can make the dam.
And damn do I want that dam. Combined with Chinampas it will result in truly horrifying food production capacity.

Also I just had a dumb thought, I wonder how much more fertile the part of the lowlands fertilized by the river that passes through our black soil is compared to the other one
 
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And damn do I want that dam. Combined with Chinampas it will result in truly horrifying food production capacity.

Also I just had a dumb thought, I wonder how much more fertile the part of the lowlands fertilized by the river that passes through our black soil is compared to the other one
Will give better reply when not on phone, but probably less. Main reason is that our crops hold topsoil better. Plus, afaik, black soil holds nutrients and water in not really inherently add much more nutrients, except I think nitrogen from the original waste.
 
When there's no conflict (or even minimal conflict) I think we SHOULD swing good.

But if there if conflict, lawful wins every time.

Lawful is in the service of Order, not simply 'following local laws.' Some laws are more Lawful than others in the d&d sense.
How would you envision a "Lawful Neutral" Civilization within the context of this quest?

How would the Ymaryn look to you if they were strictly "Lawful Neutral"?

I'm rather curious to see your perspective on the matter.
 
This will lead to martial glory. Such a value will not be good for our civilisation.
It's not at all martial glory though.

It's honoring the fallen warriors who cannot be properly identified, which exemplifies honorable death.

It's not about showing off the glory of our warriors, but honoring the sacrifices that these unknown warriors made in defending all Ymaryn.
 
This will lead to martial glory. Such a value will not be good for our civilisation.
o_O

Gonna need to do better than that I think, one because of what Raichu said which makes far more sense then your comment. Secondly, what Umi said.

Like... I get that you have strong opinions on this sort of stuff but... what?

E: Ain't gonna dispute that martial glory would be bad though.
 
It's not at all martial glory though.

It's honoring the fallen warriors who cannot be properly identified, which exemplifies honorable death.

It's not about showing off the glory of our warriors, but honoring the sacrifices that these unknown warriors made in defending all Ymaryn.
It's specifically honouring those warriors who died in combat. It exemplifies honourable death through combat. It exemplifies the Con of Honourable Death.
 
it just im more of the the idea of long trems of ledership to both grow in experience and see an plan come thourth with out it begien countermand by a new party or leader takeing over after 4 year, lets say 50 years terms insteed
 
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It's specifically honouring those warriors who died in combat. It exemplifies honourable death through combat. It exemplifies the Con of Honourable Death.
Why is it wrong for death protecting Ymaryn to be an honorable death?

I can get not wanting to increase martial glory, but Warrior's Rest is specifically for those whose bodies could not be recovered or are unrecognizable.
There is no way to gain glory there because it is for those that shall forever be unrecognized and unremembered, who made the ultimate sacrifice to face off against our foes.

That's basically the opposite of Martial Glory, which venerates individual combatants and their legacies.
 
It's specifically honouring those warriors who died in combat. It exemplifies honourable death through combat. It exemplifies the Con of Honourable Death.
Hmm... no I am going to have to call bullshit on this. Not that it is not doing some of the first part of what you say but that I think you have completely misunderstood the Con of HD.

From the front page:
Cons: Seeking a good death, and the means to achieve it, becomes desirable
This increases warrior draw, make no mistake, but it also makes our people more likely to rush headlong into extremely dangerous situations to save lives at the risk of their own so I think applying this to combat alone is mistaken at best.


Why is it wrong for death protecting Ymaryn to be an honorable death?

I can get not wanting to increase martial glory, but Warrior's Rest is specifically for those whose bodies could not be recovered or are unrecognizable.
There is no way to gain glory there because it is for those that shall forever be unrecognized and unremembered, who made the ultimate sacrifice to face off against our foes.

That's basically the opposite of Martial Glory, which venerates individual combatants and their legacies.
Plus this. You have to win and live in Martial Glory at it's simplest form. It's bragging rights, can't do that if you are dead and definitely can't do it if you can't be identified.
 
You know, people forget that while we may have iron age technology, we don't have Iron Age institutions yet (the Census, the Law). Culturally we're still Bronze Age. And we still aren't at a Greek level of scientific and philosophical development, much less the at the level we need for an industrial revolution. This is assuming that there won't be some Bronze Age collapse that will send us back to the stone age. Honestly deep down I'm kind of hoping that there will be a Bronze Age Collapse, because we've been winning for so long that it's gotten boring. A social fracture will spice things up.

I think you're being taken in by our own hype, we're winning yes, and doing much better than the highlanders, but the swamp people and eastern thunder horse certainly aren't losing, and we don't know how much other, further away civilisations are winning.
Remember that every civ AN is running in the background is running off of some path of strategy he has seen in other quests, and quest players are ill inclined to let a civilisation stagnate or turn inward like real life ones did so often.
I personally am waiting for a better picture of the wider world, in which the other shoe drops and we find that huge chunks of the best land worldwide have been dominated by mega empires and religions and are looking to expand in our direction.

Edit sorry Umi-san, I accidentally quoted you when I didn't mean to.
 
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Taking stock
[X][Main] Census
[X][Secondary] New Settlement - south of cataracts
[X][Secondary] Integrate Colony - Hatvalley – Propagate

Provinces – [Main] Census x2, [Sec] Art Patronage
Policy: Great Hall Expansion
Stallion – [Main] Aqueduct (Stallion Pen)
Western – [Main] New Settlement, [Main] Build Mills
Greenshore – [Main] Build Mills
Hatvalley -> Gulvalley – [Sec] New Settlement, [Sec] New Trails
Heaven's Hawk – [Main] Build Salt Mine
Txolla – [Main] New Settlement – Xohyr Ruins, [Sec] Raise Army
Tinriver – [Sec] Trade Mission – Trelli, [Sec] Raise Army

How many People were there?

It was an issue that had hounded kings for unknowable centuries, and there had been writings by kings on the problem stretching back nearly as far as readable records existed. With continued problems with managing the kingdom, the current king had decided to actually address this issue. It required an almost literal army of clerks, some which needed actual warrior escort to go and perform counts over the objection of local elites, but they managed to actually get a count and rework the administrative systems that allowed them to keep everything updated. A large section of the palace library was being taken over by scrolls that listed everything out, and it was all sort of ridiculous...

Except that now the king had a proper count of how many People there were, how much they consumed, and how much they produced and thus could make better decisions regarding the distribution of resources. The clerks had also had to work out a new set of words just to adequately describe the numbers involved. Some were technically just obscure before, but especially things like the yearly production and consumption of grain had required extension of those esoteric terms.

Because, once they had figured out how to account for new births, deaths, and migrations they had come to a figure of about three million souls.

Three. Million.

A number to stagger imagination, although most of those were either concentrated in the core trio of Valleyhome, Redshore, and Sacred Forest, or spread throughout the colonies, but it was an utterly gigantic figure. Only about one in ten did anything more significant than farming, but that still meant that there were tens of thousands each of clerks, shamans, priests, warriors, and artisans. The king had known that he possessed significant authority, but the scale was mind-boggling and it caused him to feel almost giddy with incomprehension to think about it too long.

Megaproject Completed!
Iron Age Census
The king and crown have some idea how many people live in the kingdom, how much they eat, and how much they earn. This makes assessing taxes and calling up conscripts much easier, as well as being able to buffer against disaster. Increases max safe Martial by +2, reduces temporary Econ damage by 1, gives +1 Wealth/turn whenever Econ is at 10 or greater, and gives access to the Resettlement action.

Choose a bonus
[] [Census] Chance to upgrade We Have Reserves
[] [Census] Free Administrative Tech upgrade
[] [Census] Efficient land redistribution (Main DL, does not make management harder)
[] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)

Unfortunately, there was also trouble, and lots of it. Close to home, there had been considerable problems with violence in the cities, particularly among the artisans. Some said that it was that corruption had grown so bad that the associations were now like the tribes of outsiders, fighting each other over resources and points of pride. Others said that foreign groups being brought in were bringing disharmony with them, not only behaving badly but also encouraging the People to behave badly. Some even said that there was a secret King of Shadows who ruled from the background. Still others said that it stemmed from the fact that the People were improperly showing their appreciation of all the things the gods did. In any case, whatever the cause many of the artisans seemed more interested in brawling with and killing each other rather than doing work, which meant that a great deal of work had reverted to the bare minimum required to keep everything functioning, instead of making progress on the various projects the crown had interest in. The multi-hulled boats someone had come up with by taking the principles of an outrigger and slapping two longships together were still too fast when they got wind in their sails, driving their prows into the waves, and the shipbuilders were still struggling with how to fix that. The new mill powered hammers were also of significant benefit, but they had taken far longer to finish up than they should have. Something was definitely wrong about the situation.

What should be done about the problem?
[] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
[] [Crisis] Consult the priests (+1 RA, +1 Stability, ???)
[] [Crisis] Try to get to the bottom of things (???)

Somewhat further afield several provinces were showing somewhat worrying signs of independence. The Western Wall seemed interested in building a large new settlement along the mountain cluster on the coast to the far northwest, taking advantage of the abundant streams to construct numerous mills. There was clear interest there to build a new administrative center in a defensible and rich location, and the king wasn't entirely sure if that would be a good thing. Unfortunately, also of concern was the fact that the Hawks had found a rock salt deposit in their territory some years back and had not mentioned it terribly much, developing the mine locally without royal support. While they hadn't done anything wrong, it was definitely a concern for the still somewhat nomadic group to be doing that. Less of a problem but still contributing to issues was the fact that both Txolla and Tinriver had been bringing the number of their warriors up, but both had been doing it via mass armament of militias as skirmishers equipped with cheap equipment only lightly supported by more serious warriors. The king wasn't sure if he liked the practice, especially with Tinriver extensively recruiting from surrounding tribes with the offer of securing membership within the People and land within the colonies after a term of service, but there were problems that meant that the king couldn't really fault them... mostly.

The first was that the People were starting to get into skirmishes with their neighbours. Some of it was over petty bullshit or simple greed, some of it was trickier. While it was obvious that the Trelli were trying to rein in their own worst elements, sometimes their raiders would get bored and wander north to attack the ships of the People. So far it hadn't been too bad, but more than one merchant had been hiring on 'extra guards' to make retaliatory strikes rather than protect what they currently had. More troublesome was the fact that a few warriors had been assembling expeditions to strike out against the plantations sprouting up to the west of Gulvalley, or along the perimeter of the Yllython Sea. While theoretically they were all attacks with the intent of freeing slaves, given how the slaves recovered were suspiciously on the young and female and 'ever-so-grateful' side, the majority of these attacks were raids with a veneer of self-justification... although the one or two attacks that evidently had major talk about 'duty to the gods' and 'cleansing of impurity and sin' had resulted in rather disturbing attacks. Thus far the People had mostly been able to keep on top of the situation, but it seemed only a matter of time before something sparked off a bigger conflict with someone.

The second and extremely alarming issue was that a trader from the Metal Workers had come out of the disunified collection of tribes in their mountains bearing bars of iron that the People hadn't made! It soon became evident that some of the tribes had spent the past few generations puzzling out the samples of iron they had obtained through war prizes or highly illegal trade with the People. While the People had been incredibly strict about control over the metal, even harsher about the smiths, and utterly obsessed over the secrecy of the mines, eventually someone would have figured out how to extract the metal from the ore, and the Metal Workers were certainly one group who had the necessary skills to have figured it out. While their skill was obviously centuries behind that of the People, the People also knew that obtaining iron was so much easier than tin for bronze that the practice would take off quickly. That was concerning enough on its own -some even called for the Red Banner to be deployed to smash the Metal Workers before their discovery could spread-, but then there was the fact that the third major international issue was a new player had swept in from the northwest.

Spreading strife before them like a summer storm, the Storm Wolves were a powerful tribe unified under a dangerously skilled chieftain. Having unified in their homelands, they were whipping the tribes to the north of the People into line, and would surely begin to make contact with the People as well soon as they sought out wealth and glory among the tribes that were on the periphery of the People. There were already calls to pre-emptively bribe these newcomers into going looking for fights elsewhere, but many advisors were starting to panic over what iron armed steppe nomads might be able to do, should they get into the northern iron mines or dominate the Metal Worker tribes to the north of The Dead Valley.

Diplomacy
[] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
[] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe everyone (Main Salt Gift, untargeted)
[] [Diplo] Hit these nomads before they get going (Main War Mission + Redeploy Red Banner)
-[] [Diplo] Free Switch to Offence Policy
-[] [Diplo] Free Switch to Defence Policy
-[] [Diplo] Free Switch to Passive Defence Policy
[] [Diplo] Eliminate the Metal Workers before they can spread their knowledge (-1 Stability, Redeploy Red Banner, Greenshore converted to a colony)
[] [Diplo] Hold tight (No action)

At home
[] [React] Begin work on Iron Age Law Reform (-3 Mysticism, -1 Art per action, 3-4? actions required)
[] [React] Build new aqueduct in Redshore (2*Sec Build Aqueduct)
[] [React] Improve saltern to take advantage of the new salt mine (Southshore Saltern expansion)
[] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
[] [React] Work on finishing new boat design (Main More Boats)​
 
Hmm... no I am going to have to call bullshit on this. Not that it is not doing some of the first part of what you say but that I think you have completely misunderstood the Con of HD.

From the front page:
This increases warrior draw, make no mistake, but it also makes our people more likely to rush headlong into extremely dangerous situations to save lives at the risk of their own so I think applying this to combat alone is mistaken at best.
But this temple isn't dedicated to the whole array of possible honourable deaths, it is specifically primarily honouring those who died in combat.
 
[X] [Census] Chance to upgrade We Have Reserves
[X] [Crisis] Try to get to the bottom of things (???)
[X] [Diplo] Eliminate the Metal Workers before they can spread their knowledge (-1 Stability, Redeploy Red Banner, Greenshore converted to a colony)
[X] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
 
Well, I think the rats that spread the plague were imported from China over the silk road.

But those rats aren't here yet, only mice. And Khemetri is slowly spreading cats around. So given that mice are still a pest for our food stores, odds are the shamans will make sure they are settled in well once we notice how good they are at keeping pests at bay.

So we may have decent chances of blocking the rat-vector, or at least slowing the whole mess down.
We're probably not likely to be hit as hard by the plague, since due to Greater Sacred Forest we pay close attention to the ecosystem, we'd probably notice the skyrocketing amounts of vermin.

It helps that we have good sewerage systems so that cities aren't nearly so attractive to vermin as well.
Speaking of Governance, is there a chance that we could get a Legacy for having peaceful transition of government and zero civil wars for millenia on end?
We have those. All the Centralization and Hierarchy tolerances are those legacies.
I sure hope that they had an explanation in the library somewhere about smallpox, because some shamans couldn't even explain how it works, just that it works.

It doesn't matter if it's 'wrong', because we need a starting point to get anywhere.
IIRC we have long lost why it works, but we know it works and we know interrupting it has deadly consequences.

Athens did have a direct democracy. Of course, that was greatly helped by the fact that it indeed only covered the polis of Athens, while its empire were basically just subjects. If everyone can meet in the city, then this makes logistics far easier. This of course wouldn't be an option for us, as we are geographically too far spread out.
Also keeping in mind that Greek democracy was particularly elitist. It applied to Citizens of a given City, but most people living in a City were not Citizens.

It's a democracy accessible only to the educated upper class and the middle class tied to the upper class. There just wasn't much more that the social structures could support.

Which is the best we can do for now. Elites drawing from a wide spectrum of society at least makes sure that we suffer less systematic myopia. It's just a horrible mess to maintain in balance since all the various elites prefer the power in their hands instead of all the other elites(which led to the election crisis where we elected a nomad because the Oligarches were afraid of the Patricians).
Hmm. Perhaps as a compromise we should initally create assemblies for cities which will give middle-class urbanites some representation... an extension of the guilds idea.
We already have it. The new urban elite formed as a result and took control, then attempted to extend their power by assassination, oppressing and conducting economic warfare on those who threaten their dominance in society.

It's sort of semi-stabilized now however. Representatives of the middle class are now elites controlling the middle class through soft power.
They were, though. The entire goal of such historical palace economies was to concentrate as much wealth as could be siphoned off from the populace for a tiny elite minority.
This part is misleading, the Palace Economy is about control and power not material greed, by holding the flow of goods under central control, rationing, and distribution falls from the center.
This allows them to favor or disfavor parts of society more easily, which gives political leverage beyond martial force.

Palace/Manorial economies then, also thrived because they were amazing at coping with the strategic resource shortfalls common in the pre-modern age, by allowing the state to prioritize protecting strategic assets economically. They had trouble with geographical extent, but that element could be solved with converting to Manorial systems, trading off political power and stability for effectiveness.

The Free Market by contrast was an implosion waiting to happen for most of history, as the very definition of short term maxima, it's only the modern abundance of resources and massive connectivity which stabilized things and made it effective.

The elites don't actually derive much behefit from this reserve because they already have as much wealth as they could practically consume even without.
Speaking of which, there is probably a The Law (Bronze Age) megaproject. So we'll probably be doing the equivalent of a tier 3 megaproject while missing one of its components.

The Greater Sacred Forest helped lay the foundations of this sort of study fortunately. It's not fundamentally too different in concepts to the climate disruption, and can be approached in a similar manner.

We might get this kind of information once we set up a Free Press or something similar.

We're missing this information for multiple conditions that all need to be met:
-You need the communications to bring the information to the core
--We don't have this at all. The lack of long distance communications is such a huge problem that a free press can do basically nothing but write about local gossip and scandal because they can't reach the information. You aren't getting effective public reporters until at least railways, it's just too expensive to transport news.

-You need the institutions encouraged to extract, refine and pass information upwards.
--We do have this, multiple channels even. The Royal Audience allows for direct access to the King. The Priesthood gathers and relays spiritual concerns of the commons. The Associations gathers and relays issues plaguing specific trades. The Oligarchy handles traditional territorial disputes and crime. And the Blackbirds watch.
 
[] [Crisis] Instruct and reprimand rule breakers (Sec Restore Order + Sec Proclaim Glory)
We need to start putting a stop to this shit.

[] [Diplo] Attempt to bribe the Lightning Wolves (Sec Trade Mission + Sec Targeted Salt Gift)
Hopefully we can get them to not attack the Metal Workers

[] [React] Stabilize the People (Main Improve Annual Festival)
I wanna be on max stability for Law.
 
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[X] [Census] Streamline lower bureaucracy (+1 Passive Policy)
[X] [Crisis] Try to get to the bottom of things (???)
[X] [Diplo] Eliminate the Metal Workers before they can spread their knowledge (-1 Stability, Redeploy Red Banner, Greenshore converted to a colony)
[X] [React] Build new aqueduct in Redshore (2*Sec Build Aqueduct)
 
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