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Paths of Civilization

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Kiba said:
Damn. It's possible we're going to be a superpower and not have any real enemies to speak of? It's also on the road to ossification and breakup. I am not sure that you can prevent that one.

However, the successor civilizations will be gifted with an extremely powerful legacy.
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Rome but in a reactionary way. We'll have to swiftly overtake the remains of our enemies, tho, so that our new neighbors are a fresh slate that interprets us as weak rather than knowing just how many counterparts we've consumed.
 
Academia Nut said:
Econ generally represents the productivity of the people, which in this case primarily refers to food production and population growth. During this era, Economy is consumed to produce Diplomacy and Military points, as well as things like Art and Mysticism. Some Econ actions also cause a short term dip followed by a later increase, and some produce non-numerical effects like raising walls that can prevent attacks from people who don't have siege engines or the will to sit out your food supplies.
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Given the religion of the People, aren't they also in a weird feedback loop where Mysticism can contribute to Econ?

Also, I'm curious: what has everybody calling us dour?
 
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Umi-san said:
Rome but in a reactionary way. We'll have to swiftly overtake the remains of our enemies, tho, so that our new neighbors are a fresh slate that interprets us as weak rather than knowing just how many counterparts we've consumed.
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The way I see it: If we don't have neighbors or adversaries, we stagnate and become backward. This is unfortunate, if necessary in the development of humanity.
 
Kiba said:
Damn. It's possible we're going to be a superpower and not have any real enemies to speak of? It's also on the road to ossification and breakup. I am not sure that you can prevent that one.

However, the successor civilizations will be gifted with an extremely powerful legacy.
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Yeah, our current political entity will eventually collapse/be successfully invaded, but we'll definitely set the tone and atmosphere for how successor civilizations will operate in the fertile crescent.

In the mean time, we should be careful to avoid hybris and getting too comfy in thinking we're completely secure.
 
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[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if sucessful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Join the Western Confederacy
[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)
 
Kiba said:
The way I see it: If we don't have neighbors or adversaries, we stagnate and become backward. This is unfortunate, if necessary in the development of humanity.
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Our process is something like this:
1) We seem weak. -> Our enemies attack us.
2) We're actually strong -> We defeat our enemies.
3) Our enemies crumble -> We take in some of their people.
4) We become strong and expand -> Our borders touch those of a new nation.
5) We seem weak -> But the enemy has heard from remnants of our previous foe that we are not.

If we want 5 to be a repeat of 1, we have to take in ALL of the previous neighbor's people so that we seem weak to the new neighbor.

Or just seem super trade oriented I guess. They'll forget that we killed their previous neighbor eventually, especially if we get a trait that makes that happen... From the ST... PR Control...

We'll also need a trait that promotes faster cultural assimilation - so that everyone in our polity is a dour, steady person. Otherwise as the expanse of controlled land and heterogeneity of integrated peoples increases our technological and bureaucratic capacity for managing all of it will decrease in efficacy, making stability ever more difficult to manage.
 
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minerva-n-memes said:
Yeah, our current political entity will eventually collapse/be successfully invaded, but we'll definitely set the tone and atmosphere for how successor civilizations will operate in the fertile crescent.

In the mean time, we should be careful to avoid hybris and getting too comfy in thinking we're completely secure.
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On this note: seeing how likely we are to go to war, how about producing more chariots or warriors?
Something like...
[Main] War Mission - DP
[2nd] Build more Wagons
[2nd] Expand Fishing

Because once we are finished with DP, ST will probably try to attack us unless we have good military in place.
 
mastigos said:
Given the religion of the People, aren't they also in a weird feedback loop where Mysticism can contribute to Econ?

Also, I'm curious: what has everybody calling us dour?
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Eventually it is possible for Econ to more directly feed into Mysticism.

You're generally seen as dour due to the fact that the People are very focused on working in comparison to others, and haven't invested much in luxuries from their perspective. Part of it is that a lot of luxury goods are distributed more evenly than in other cultures, so the leaders tend to be less extravagantly adorned than is typical, although the traders wear fully dyed cloth as a way of showing off their goods.
 
ctulhuslp said:
On this note: seeing how likely we are to go to war, how about producing more chariots or warriors?
Something like...
[Main] War Mission - DP
[2nd] Build more Wagons
[2nd] Expand Fishing

Because once we are finished with DP, ST will probably try to attack us unless we have good military in place.
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What is the estimated econ cost with that plan?
 
Kiba said:
What is the estimated econ cost with that plan?
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In one turn: 0 to -1, it depends on how war action goes.
But, thing is, size of land we can claim likely depends on our contribution to war, so it will pay off.
Plus, seeing as STs will get real pissy once we get that land, we need army to fend them off. So, again, it's a long-term economic win.
So, in more than 1-turn perspective: not sure, but definitely positive.

PotentialPlateau said:
[Main] Step-Farms
[secondary] Expand Farms
[Secondary] Black Soil

Yo dawg I heard you like farms so I put a farm in your farm so you can farm while you farm! :V
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Will you throw soil at the enemies or what?
We are probably the least military capable faction of the region at the moment. Now, we can quickly deal with it by putting our industry into warfare - but to do it, we must, guess what, put our industry into warfare. Which means war wagons and stuff.
 
Personally, I'ld like to see more Expand Forests in these plans, bot to better protect our Northern settlements, AND because I'm fairly certain that they're an Econ positive action.

2635
 
Major goals:
  • Get that economy to 5 or more so that we can get started on the Canal
  • Build walls around all of our settlements so that we can be relativley safe from all the people who would be attacking us
  • Finish Step Farms so that they are integrated into our farming techniques
  • Up Martial to 5 so that we can have a strong military to ward of raiders
  • Put up More Settlements to have more people so that we have more people.
  • Make more trails or something like that in order to increase centralization so that we can better use it.
  • Expand Forest so that it covers all of our territories to reap the benefits and keep up the Elf Imagery.
This all leads up to us being able to start the Canal Mega Project and thus begin reshaping the land on a massive scale.
 
We're going to need to boost our stability to at least +1 if we're going to start the canal (i'd feel better if its +2, but meh). The positive stability will act as a productive modifier to our people during the Canal project, and serve as a buffer towards any stability hits (taking people in, which would boost our econ a bunch, or just internal crisis).

Also, if there's any weather problems then we'll get an option to take in the needy masses, which will give us at least +2 econ (which will be awesome when we build the canal). Having the extra stability on hand will just be practical thinking really.
 
Sightsear said:
Personally, I'ld like to see more Expand Forests in these plans, bot to better protect our Northern settlements, AND because I'm fairly certain that they're an Econ positive action.

2635
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They are, it's one of the first things I asked about them. That said, I think they will be better actions after we take Study Forest, so I'd like to get that out of the way first.
 
@Academia Nut

Given we've been interacting, trading, and supporting them for awhile, we probably know a good bit about the WC:

What are their values like now? how is their society structured? Have more of our own values crept into theirs?
 
[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if sucessful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Join the Western Confederacy
[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)
 
ctulhuslp said:
Sorry.
There is non-negligible amount of voters here who voted for stepping into the war and then started discussing maining fishing with secondaries being farms in pastures. In the middle of the war. So...there were examples of people being serious about such votes and yet voting for war.
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Pastures has a real place in the war, as does the trails option. Both would give help with the infrastructure that is helping make the war easier.

Based on AN's explanation of Martial, though, it won't take econ to wage war, but rather martial points. (Though there is a slight chance of gaining martial if we do well enough.) In return we're likely to get martial tech and values.

I want to get the new trails either this following turn or next, because we'll need them to help hold onto land in the flood plains and will help us exert influence over WC and ST. I also think expanding pastures and fishing are very overdue.

All in all, next turn I'd like
[Main] Expand Warriors
[Secondary] New Trails
or
[Main] Expand Warriors
[Secondary] Expand Pasture

While the economic part of me wants to just wait until after the war to reimburse our warriors, there will likely be some synergy if we combine that with the war.
 
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ctulhuslp said:
Sorry.
There is non-negligible amount of voters here who voted for stepping into the war and then started discussing maining fishing with secondaries being farms in pastures. In the middle of the war. So...there were examples of people being serious about such votes and yet voting for war.
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And people wonder why I'm nervous about the whole thing.
 
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