Our current traits convert centralisation into stability to bring it back to 0, this is fine untill we run out of centralisation, and our civ collapses and fractures.
Yes, but that requires dropping down stability multiple times. We can survive a drop in Centralization, since that increases fairly fast for us over time. We'd have to take in multiple groups consecutively for our Centralization stat to actually be in danger, which would require every other group around us going to shit at pretty much the same time to have a chance to occur.

Give AN some credit, he's not going to stick us with a trait that is 'And now Death Spirals. Death Spirals Everywhere.'
 
[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Join the Western Confederacy
[X] Northern nomads (Probably honour based)
 
It doesn't really matter because we're getting rid of Pioneering Spirit, even if it would synergize well with Land of Opportunity. Atm we're trying to get an anti-drop trait, so that we'll be less vulnerable to drops in stability later, rather than just fixing them. This means that when LoO procs we don't have a quick fix, but allows us more coordination.
 
I suspect that too high stability can be as bad as too low stability. If we're too stable there might be no innovation or change at all. Complete stagnation is in some ways as bad as complet chaos.
 
Complete chaos = game over, so no. Stagnation is not that bad, especially since we can just cause stability losses in other places to lower our own, if it proves a burden.
 
Those really need metal to be effective though. Our next step there is spear throwers...which we'd never devise because we already have the recurve bow.

But archers on war carts are going to be pretty evil to fight.
As long as our warriors get as well muscled as the neighbors, those can drive an arrow a fuckhuge range.

Yeah, having metal would have been nice but a strong sharpened staff should work too. The purpose is to wreck infantry formations and sow chaos so that our other units can take advantage of it.
 
My first attempt at a tally so it could be wrong

Vote Tally : Paths of Civilization | Page 279 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.10.1

[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)
No. of Votes: 38
Ghostdevil
Andres110
Arbit
Athanor
bluefur87
butchock
Chrestomanci
ConfusedPotato
ctulhuslp
Duesal
Eri
Forgothrax
godofsmallthings
Hangwind
Killer_Whale
Marlin
Neptune
Nicklance
pbluekan
Potato and Chip
PotentialPlateau
Power
Powerofmind
redzonejoe
Romv
Scarecrow
ScreenWatcher
Sivantic
Spectrum
Stelarwand030
tryrar
Umi-san
veekie
Versharl
Wellhello
wingstrike96
Xantalos
zamin

[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not)
No. of Votes: 35
notgreat
Andres110
Athanor
bluefur87
Chiperninerm
Chrestomanci
Citino
core_88
ctulhuslp
Eri
frostgiant
Hangwind
Happerry
Ian Drash
keenscythe
Marlin
McLuvin
Neptune
Nicklance
NotAlwaysFanfic
Potato and Chip
PotentialPlateau
Power
Powerofmind
Romv
ScreenWatcher
Stelarwand030
tryrar
Tylonius
Umi-san
Varano
Versharl
wingstrike96
zeusthemoose
Zoxabels

[X] Join the Western Confederacy
No. of Votes: 34
notgreat
Athanor
bluefur87
Chiperninerm
Chrestomanci
Citino
ConfusedPotato
frostgiant
Happerry
Ian Drash
keenscythe
Marlin
McLuvin
Neptune
Nicklance
NotAlwaysFanfic
Potato and Chip
Power
Powerofmind
redzonejoe
Scarecrow
ScreenWatcher
Sightsear
Stelarwand030
tryrar
Tylonius
Umi-san
Varano
Wellhello
wingstrike96
Xantalos
zamin
zeusthemoose
Zoxabels

[X] Stay out of it
No. of Votes: 26
Ghostdevil
Andres110
Arbit
ctulhuslp
Duesal
Eri
Forgothrax
godofsmallthings
Hangwind
Kiba
Killer_Whale
Mannan
Massgamer
Motoko
Night_stalker
pbluekan
Romv
Shard
Sivantic
Skjadir
SpeckofStardust
tri2
UbeOne
veekie
Versharl
VoidZero

[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if sucessful, decreases stability if not)
No. of Votes: 23
Ghostdevil
Arbit
ConfusedPotato
Duesal
Forgothrax
godofsmallthings
Kiba
Killer_Whale
Mannan
Massgamer
Motoko
pbluekan
Scarecrow
Sivantic
Skjadir
SpeckofStardust
tri2
UbeOne
veekie
VoidZero
Wellhello
Xantalos
zamin

[X] Northern nomads (Probably honour based)
No. of Votes: 22
Shard
Chiperninerm
Citino
frostgiant
Happerry
Ian Drash
keenscythe
Mannan
Massgamer
McLuvin
Night_stalker
NotAlwaysFanfic
notgreat
Sightsear
SpeckofStardust
tri2
Tylonius
UbeOne
Varano
VoidZero
zeusthemoose
Zoxabels

[X] Delegate further responsibilities to the local chiefs (Changes government type to Central Oligarchy)
No. of Votes: 3
Shard
butchock
Night_stalker

[X] Western Confederacy (Probably Pioneering Spirit again)
No. of Votes: 3
Skjadir
Kiba
Motoko

[x] Join the Spirit Talkers
No. of Votes: 3
butchock
PotentialPlateau
Spectrum

[X] Let the matter lie
No. of Votes: 1
Spectrum

Total No. of Voters: 64
 
Last edited:
[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if sucessful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Stay out of it
[X] Northern nomads (Probably honour based)
 
Since Land of Opportunity makes us look like an attractive option to join, does it essentially force us to either suffer a stability drop by accepting large amounts of people or accept a stability drop for denying them?

You can get into situations where you have a chance at a stability drop for refusing refugees, or a guaranteed one for accepting large numbers. Generally you will have a spectrum.

What would be the repercussions of using military force in order to bring people back in line? Would it be against our nature?

It would have a chance of triggering a stability tantrum spiral, but not necessarily. Depends on why force is being used.

Speaking of which @Academia Nut does Pioneering Spirit activate everytime we get a drop in stability or only when it goes into the negative?

It activates every time there is a stability drop. Fortunately you currently don't have it.

can you tell us what social values the nomads had? We incorporated an entire tribe of them so we have a solid source for knowledge regarding their customs and beliefs.

The nomads have, relative to the People, a higher emphasis on the following values:
  • The honouring of given word and deals
  • Ties of family
  • Fighting as a means of social advancement
  • The glory of battle
  • The importance of the defense of weaker members of your in-group

Was she originally a male who felt like she was a female? The line about having "an excess of souls" may have been how our elders interpreted the issue. It might also explain why Mythwyn keeps mentioning how something feels off about Dellgyna. @Academia Nut, can you let me know if I'm right?

Maybe... I mean, if there were a term for non-gender conforming people in certain cultures that used reference to a person having more than one soul or spirit for me to draw upon as a reference, then that interpretation would certainly make sense.

(seriously, just seven warriors?! Was that really all we got for teaching them farming?)

You didn't teach them much, and those seven were sent to assess the situation. There has since been further trade and contact.

can we gain any land from fighting Dead Priests? Or generally in lowlands?

If you began operating in the lowlands, you would have a strong claim to the territory down river from your valley settlements.

why isn't our Justice trait activating against the ST? Them messing with the dead is pretty strongly against our cultural mores.

It could evolve in that direction, but at the moment it is more "they are spooky" than "their ways are an active threat"

Ugh... apologies for the spaghetti, people ask me lots of questions while I sleep.
 
So I guess our two focuses will be Military and Economy now. Economy because that is the main focus of our people, and Military because Land of Opportunity pretty much means that if anyone is out to conquer and gain riches the People look like a ripe target.

Military 4 is not really that good considering our neighbors:
  • Dead Priests: Warrior Theocracy that pretty much defined their culture on raiding and capturing others
  • Western Confederacy: From a culture of warriors and beings who had to fight the Dead Priests Regularly.
  • Spirit Talkers: People who focused on Religion and then applied it all to their warriors to become known for their prowess.
  • Northern Nomads: Nomadic raiders that constantly fight for their livelihood.
We really are perhaps the weakest militarily in the long run. Sure we are also the most stable, but we focus the least on the military.
 
If you began operating in the lowlands, you would have a strong claim to the territory down river from your valley settlements.

Okay, now that is a good reason to interfere. WC are amenable to cooperation, so...yeah, objections on that account are withdrawn.
@Academia Nut , I have another question, sorry.
We made walls in the northern settlement, however on the turn-before-previous it was not listed as the walled settlement, only coastal was. Is this on purpose?
And also, are you not listing list of settlements on the stat sheet on purpose?
 
Complete chaos = game over, so no. Stagnation is not that bad, especially since we can just cause stability losses in other places to lower our own, if it proves a burden.

Ah I meant for other tribes mostly. I highly doubt SV would let the People stagnate. However I wouldn't be surprised if we found a culture or two eventually who crashed because of it. (This presupposes that I'm right about too high stability being bad obviously.)
 
It's true that we're the weakest militarily in terms of immediate applicable power, but I'd say that in comparison to both the ST and DP we have the best military strength in the long run, solely because our military is not the key factor to our economy and strength.

If we go to war with them and kill equal amounts of soldiers, the ST will not have enough warriors to suppress internal trouble and the DP will not have enough warriors to either suppress their slaves nor to acquire more, easily. (Though obviously re the DP they'd need to be stopped from taking our people.)

I agree, though, that our military could be heightened. It probably will be as we go to war with others and assimilate their military technology and refine/develop our own. Therefore, we do not need to do actions specifically aimed at increasing our military. We only need to use it. We can emphasize other, better aspects of our culture later.

I also feel that we cannot neglect our diplomatic stat - when we develop overseas trade, it would be wise to have it be high.

Ah I meant for other tribes mostly. I highly doubt SV would let the People stagnate. However I wouldn't be surprised if we found a culture or two eventually who crashed because of it. (This presupposes that I'm right about too high stability being bad obviously.)
*shrug* I think that if this game is based on reality a stability of 2+ will have negative effects unless the culture's traits provide tolerance-generating aspects. If a state is highly stable but emphasizes creation and innovation, it is of course unlikely to stagnate.
 
*shrug* I think that if this game is based on reality a stability of 2+ will have negative effects unless the culture's traits provide tolerance-generating aspects. If a state is highly stable but emphasizes creation and innovation, it is of course unlikely to stagnate.
That makes sense. I might put the cutoff point at 3+ for symmetry, but otherwise I agree. Here's hoping we can manage to snag a creation and/innovation trait.
 
That makes sense. I might put the cutoff point at 3+ for symmetry, but otherwise I agree. Here's hoping we can manage to snag a creation and/innovation trait.

We have one that enhances borrowing ideas from others and generally we are pretty xenophilic, so...it won't be isolationist stagnation, at least, so no historical China scenario.
 
That makes sense. I might put the cutoff point at 3+ for symmetry, but otherwise I agree. Here's hoping we can manage to snag a creation and/innovation trait.
It would maybe be "Renewal" or "Adaption" or something, to fill one of our 2 remaining spiritual spots. The first would be something about how forests need regular chaos in order to be as healthy as possible. The latter would be something about how forests constantly change to new conditions.

It might be a military trait, though, like "Innovation" - implying how we innovate on the spot or intake our enemies methods - which would mean we'd need regular conflict to persist.

We have one that enhances borrowing ideas from others and generally we are pretty xenophilic, so...it won't be isolationist stagnation, at least, so no historical China scenario.
tru
 
[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if sucessful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Stay out of it
[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)
 
[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Join the Western Confederacy
[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)

Revoting because AN confirmed we'll get claim on more land if we participate and WC are not trying to claim all lowlands by labeling it 'cursed', like ST do.
 
Diplomacy seems to be the effect of taking in the Nomads, as they are hugely unpopular with everyone after all those raids. Economy should be 1 point each for the Hill Folk and the Nomads.
I'm reasonably sure our Diplomacy dropped from 6 to 5 before we decided to take in the nomads. Personally, I think it had something to do with dealing with the Spirit Talkers, and making our farming techniques a little bit more known, or having our dyes make their initial impact, and now foreign polities near us are a little more used to it.
 
It would maybe be "Renewal" or "Adaption" or something, to fill one of our 2 remaining spiritual spots. The first would be something about how forests need regular chaos in order to be as healthy as possible. The latter would be something about how forests constantly change to new conditions.

It might be a military trait, though, like "Innovation" - implying how we innovate on the spot or intake our enemies methods - which would mean we'd need regular conflict to persist.

The forest one would definitely make sense for us. Not too keen on needing conflict...

Maybe it's like in Civ VI where the government type we have has an effect on how many traits (and what types) you can have.
 
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