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Paths of Civilization

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[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Stay out of it
[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)
 
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[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Join the Western Confederacy
[X] Western Confederacy (Probably Pioneering Spirit again)
 
Note we have a few action pairs here:

[] Join the Spirit Talkers
[] Western Confederacy (Probably Pioneering Spirit again)

This gives us a big boost as the Spirit Talkers will wreck the Dead Priests with us, then they'd turn on the Western Confederacy without us.
Which means the Western Confederacy shatters, we take in their people and technology, triggering Pioneering Spirit to have a shitload of wealth, which we then churn into more bread and circuses.

[] Join the Western Confederacy
[] Northern nomads (Probably honour based)

This combo is the Honorable route to take, Martial Honor leading to glory, which we can use to expand into the lowlands and diploannex the WC components
Also I don't know why people are taking Honor and then staying out of the fight when Honor is unlikely to accept leaving our allies to their own devices.

[] Stay out of it
[] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)

This focuses on our internal buildup. Fuck the outside wars, we use the Spiritual trait to boost our Stability before we have to absorb big chunks of refugees.
 
What to do about troublesome subordinates...
[] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not) (This is my preferred choice. While it might cause stability, it will also decrease cheating and continue our record of treating everyone fairly, which benefits our civ as a whole.) (Also, Protective Justice will probably impact this.)
[] Let the matter lie (Not preferable, as permitting cheating will cause unrest in the long term as some villages become more successful than others and the reasons for it come to light.)
[] Delegate further responsibilities to the local chiefs (Changes government type to Central Oligarchy) (Extremely not preferable: Considering that the local chiefs have already cheated, it is likely that whatever choices they make will continue to put their own people first, regardless of benefit for our civ as a whole.)


[] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not)
^It's clearly the only choice, despite a chance for instability in the short term, it will prevent strife and instability in the long.

Commit to a War Expedition against the Dead Priests next turn (min. Secondary focus)
[] Join the Spirit Talkers (Increased exposure to their ways, which means gains in mysticism and knowledge of how to cheat people. Makes us estranged from the WC. Will likely mean that we're dedicating ourselves long term more to fighting the DP than exploiting the decent land.)
[] Join the Western Confederacy (Our old allies, they both want to attack DP to stop raids on their people and to get more land. Going with them is a better chance for receiving land and strengthening more ties.)
[] Stay out of it (Don't involve ourselves; don't receive land; decrease standing overall so that we can do econ choices more easily. Considering that our trait now has people view us as weak, not preferable.)

[] Join the Western Confederacy

[] Western Confederacy (Probably Pioneering Spirit again) (Makes settling easier, but decreases centralization every time strife occurs. While I like the settling thing, we've historically not created settlements often enough for it to be worthwhile, and we need to go back to avoiding strife.)
[] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based) (Idk what this will give us, but honestly I kind of want it. Their spiritual aspect is partly watching the stars and learning how to understand it; partly anger/focus-based things, so either self-control or surrender to a different power. Idk, it's either a bonus to science or an emotion or trickery thing.) (They can resist stability decreases through mysticism.)
[] Northern nomads (Probably honour based) (Honour-based stuff will help our society be more honourable. Possibly a good trait butttt... our methods of defensive wall fighting might make this a bad one...)


[] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)
I just wanna see what they have tbh.

IT WILL PROBABLY RESIST STABILITY DROPS

WE NEED THIS IN CASE THAT IS TRUE

IF OUR STABILITY DROPS TO -3 WE LOSE

LAND OF OPPORTUNITY MAKES STABILITY DROPS MORE LIKELY

DEATH IS IN OUR FUTURE

[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Join the Western Confederacy
[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)
 
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[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if sucessful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Stay out of it
[X] Northern nomads (Probably honour based)

Changing my vote because Land of Opportunity has everything that made Pioneering Spirit good in the first place--it trades a drop in stability for a large boost in Econ and Tech and Social advancement.
Academia Nut said:
whenever a neighbour suffers a stability drop, have the option to also suffer a stability drop in exchange for a large boost to Econ and technological and social advancement by absorbing especially large numbers of people
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Why get what are essentially the same effects again? Let's go with something martial. We're sorely lacking in that.
 
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[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if sucessful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Join the Western Confederacy
[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)
 
[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Join the Western Confederacy
[X] Northern nomads (Probably honour based)
 
redzonejoe said:
I don't care much for it's active effects, but passively it allows us to easily steal tech and culture from people, and settlements are better. So that's pretty cool.
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Land of Opportunity has those passives.

Academia Nut said:
Land of Opportunity
You welcome all, offering food and shelter if they will contribute to your community. Sometimes these newcomers behave badly, and sometimes they bring strange new ideas, but in general they strengthen your community, especially in the long run
Pros: Enhanced absorption of new ideas, +1 social value from current or historical neighbours, whenever a neighbour suffers a stability drop, have the option to also suffer a stability drop in exchange for a large boost to Econ and technological and social advancement by absorbing especially large numbers of people
Cons: Many think you weak, not accepting the needy can cause stability drops
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Duesal said:
Why get what are essentially the same effects again? Let's go with something martial. We're sorely lacking in that.
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New trait activates when others are unstable. Pioneering activates when we're unstable.

Also possibly synergy. Somebody else loses stability, we trigger new trait, lose stability to gain econ culture and pop.

We just lost stability? Triggers pioneering too. More econ, less centralisation.

Plus the passive tech stealing is pretty decent.
 
redzonejoe said:
New trait activates when others are unstable. Pioneering activates when we're unstable.

Also possibly synergy. Somebody else loses stability, we trigger new trait, lose stability to gain econ culture and pop.

We just lost stability? Triggers pioneering too. More econ, less centralisation.

Plus the passive tech stealing is pretty decent.
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Yeah, I just realized I misread that part. :oops:

[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if sucessful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Stay out of it
[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)
 
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@Academia Nut Since Land of Opportunity makes us look like an attractive option to join, does it essentially force us to either suffer a stability drop by accepting large amounts of people or accept a stability drop for denying them?
 
[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Join the Western Confederacy
[X] Northern nomads (Probably honour based)​
 
[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Join the Western Confederacy
[X] Northern nomads (Probably honour based)
 
veekie said:
[] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if successful, decreases stability if not)

Puts in controls over corruption and favoritism, but naturally the chiefs won't be happy.

[] Let the matter lie

Let thing go as they naturally would. Develop...politics.

[] Delegate further responsibilities to the local chiefs (Changes government type to Central Oligarchy)

Disperses power to a more equitable distribution, which helps buffer stability hits as local issues are more likely to be addressed locally, but reduces ability to coordinate.
It actually has synergy with Land of Opportunity, since it'd help cover for 'digesting' large numbers of refugees.

[] Join the Spirit Talkers

This prevents a later conflict from rounding on us, as the Spirit Talkers have the best military here at present, if we team up with them.
The Spirit Talkers have backed us up in the last Nomad war, so reciprocity may be in order
On the other hand nobody LIKES them...

[] Join the Western Confederacy

Backs up our oldest trade partners, and the Western Confederacy are currently closer to our values than the Spirit Talkers.
However, the Spirit Talkers are likely to declare war on them after the Dead Priests and they didn't help US significantly when we called for help.

[] Stay out of it

Where Eagles fight, Crows feast.
Just grab some popcorn, watch everyone else wreck everyone else, then press Land of Opportunity button to digest everything.

[] Western Confederacy (Probably Pioneering Spirit again)

Pioneering Spirit becomes very dangerous here, since we'd be taking stability drops and thus Centralization drops every time our neighbors suffer a disaster. We'd not have trouble feeding them, but we'd lose ability to manage them.

[] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)

I'm willing to bet the Spirit Talkers trait is something to offset Stability losses via Mysticism(since they'd be wrecked otherwise).
Extremely useful due to Land of Opportunity

[] Northern nomads (Probably honour based)

Honor leads to discipline, but also leads to blood feuds. Helps enrich our warrior caste certainly with a code of conduct.

[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if sucessful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Stay out of it
[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)

Personal preference is to exploit the hell out of the mysticism.
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Veekie you pretty much hit the nail on the head here.


[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if sucessful, decreases stability if not)

Oligarchy sounds extremely good on paper, but the loss of centralization and unified will is a death knell to how we do things. It also doesn't really solve the problem. It delegates, yes, but the corruption is still inherently there.

For what it's worth, guys I think decisions like this are the result of lowered stability. It makes logical sense, and we are told it was very out of the ordinary. AKA we haven't had this sort of problem before, and when our stability drops, we have a problem.

veekie said:
[] Stay out of it
[] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)


This focuses on our internal buildup. Fuck the outside wars, we use the Spiritual trait to boost our Stability before we have to absorb big chunks of refugees.
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We are obviously having issues with our internal politics. Get it settled.

[X] Stay out of it

I'm actually a little unsure here. Neither group helped us at all really, as far as I can tell from the narrative. Spirit Talkers gave us seven guys. Wooo.

[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)

For all of you shits wanting pioneering spirit again, the combination of pioneering spirit and land of opportunity is quite literally a recipe for instant societal collapse. And hey, astrology maybe?
 
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Or that we set our-self into unstable spiral if the weather messes with local food production.

Drought/flood decrease food production for everyone -> nearby civ loses stability, we take them in -> our food supply strain, we lose stability and PS activates, people moved around reducing productivity -> even less food all around
 
[X] Bring them back in line (Increases Centralization if sucessful, decreases stability if not)
[X] Stay out of it
[X] Spirit Talkers (Probably spiritual based)

Anything but Pioneering Spirit. Had to worry about Instability too much
 
redzonejoe said:
And so we became the USA?
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Citino said:
So we aren't just elves with the work ethic of dwarves, we also now have the ideals of 'Muricans?

That's actually pretty scary/awesome.
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Eh, better than the Americans, as some of my countrymen can be considered...xenophobic.

Umi-san said:
@Academia Nut Since Land of Opportunity makes us look like an attractive option to join, does it essentially force us to either suffer a stability drop by accepting large amounts of people or accept a stability drop for denying them?
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We get a stability drop by denying them. We are also considered "weak".
 
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