Remove ads

Paths of Civilization

Reader mode
Umi-san said:
Honestly can't rly agree. Having the dough sweeter is nothing but an improvement. The salty/acidity of a proper marinara sauce (as opposed to the generally herby-er arrabiata, which has a spiciness that is still quite decent with pineapple) serves as a good contrast if separated by cheese. A p flavorless but filling white cheese.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


Heresy has blinded you. And not just physically as shown by your glasses, but mentally as well. For as you deny the ordained order, the corruption seeps into your core, making perversity seem sweet and innocent.
Soon one heresy leads to another, until the earth is submerged beneath the sea of quattro fromage fruitcake pizza with bbq ribs and broccoli on top.
 
Last edited:
maximillian said:
Heresy has blinded you. And not just physically as shown by your glasses, but mentally as well. For as you deny the ordained order, the corruption seeps into your core, making perversity seem sweet and innocent.
Soon one heresy leads to another, until the earth is submerged beneath the sea of quattro formage fruitcake pizza with bbq ribs and broccoli on top.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hate fruitcake and no idea what Quattro formate is but pineapple barbecue broccoli pizza sounds good.
 
ETA50M said:
Last word of AN I can find says they are considered a side hobby. Plus when did I ever advocate to destory the traders ?? Don't put words into my mouth! I just said the traders are proof our society had advanced beyond our laws hence the need for tax reform to update our laws and to help regulate the profession.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
:Citation Needed:
 
@Academia Nut would a main roads next turn lessen the admin strain from integrating the Stallions, or is it simply a matter of being unable to cope without the palace at this point?
 
Oh.

With the clarification that the Palace will guaranteed let us rearrange the system, I'm willing to put off integration. This is bad, but probably (barely) worthwhile. It will suck letting them start the temple, but we can integrate them next turn and help them finish it.

[X] [Main] Grand Palace
[X] [Main] Grand Palace x2
[X] [Secondary] Expand Economy

@Academia Nut
On Balanced can our provinces do war missions? If we have them on balanced and there's a required secondary, will they put in that secondary for us?
edit: If we do integration, do the March's actions just disappear for the turn? (neither province action nor march action)?
 
Last edited:
Academia Nut said:
You've basically hit the point where your system is falling apart because it is trying to do things that it can't anymore. The palace will allow you to rearrange the system and ease the strain.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
What I'm getting from this is that at this point we basically have to choose between:
  1. Integrate the Stallions before they build a temple and risk a full system collapse.
  2. Build the Palace to fix/ease the system and risk a schism in the north.
 
@Academia Nut, how would Main dl and road affect the north and our admin? Make em happier and very grateful to the king, or more independent inclined. And would it greatly ease admin, only somewhat or the reverse?
 
Dutch said:
What I'm getting from this is that at this point we basically have to choose between:
  1. Integrate the Stallions before they build a temple and risk a full system collapse.
  2. Build the Palace to fix/ease the system and risk a schism in the north.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

AN already said that they're not going to break away in the next couple generations. We should rush the Palace, and maybe Influence Subordinate the ST at some point so they don't schism, if we really think it's necessary.
 
PyroTechno said:
AN already said that they're not going to break away in the next couple generations. We should rush the Palace, and maybe Influence Subordinate the ST at some point so they don't schism, if we really think it's necessary.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
People are concerned that our shitty road network combined with the Stallions building their own temple will lead to the development of severe doctrinal differences within our priesthood.
 
Academia Nut said:
Had to let you know that that was a suicidal vote.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well! Glad to know there is a way we can commit suicide.

Academia Nut said:
"The questions we are asking here are not upon the nature of the divine, but upon the human relationship with the divine. What personal acts are revealed to us as being pleasing to the gods through the emotions they stir? Simple hedonistic indulgence is eliminated quickly enough, as these pleasures are transitory and fleeting. That we may enjoy ourselves in this life is a gift from the divine, but it is not our purpose. To find purpose we seek the transcendental joys, the moments when our souls are able to brush up against the divine. Upon seeking the commonality in these moments, we see ties of preservation and creation: parents with their children, artisans completing a craft, warriors protecting their fellows, priests and shamans uncovering some new facet of the divine. Thus we peel back the purpose the gods have set for us: to preserve and continue forward their creation, with humans being among their finest creations. Thus we find ourselves celebrating the protectors, for their contributions are obvious and moving. But can we go astray? Yes, yes we can. We can say to ourselves, 'The man who lays down his life for the community is committing the greatest good one can commit, so surely this is our purpose? To die for the rest, to die for the gods? But as there is sorrow in the loss of a friend, of a family member, can this purpose not be fulfilled by another? Can we not make the bittersweet less bitter by having another fulfill this purpose?' This is a very human thing to think, for none of us wish to see our friends and family taken from us, but are we not flawed beings? Are we not capable of perverting the divine, turning it vulgar? If we were not, we would not be discussing this here, for we would already know the correct path without requiring guidance. The Priests of Xohyr fell down this path, listening to the whispering of demons and taking the easy road of making someone else have to bear the burdens of the divine. We say no, to do such is to degrade the divine purpose. If a man should fall in service to others, that is his destiny to achieve, and if it is to create a family and tend to the earth, then that is also his destiny to achieve, and to swap one for the other because you know the former better than the latter is acting in defiance of the tasks the gods have set for us."
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This is a great speech about responsibility.
Note! Our spiritual values did not change at all. I am seeing a lot of CA and Symphony in here, but Lot's and Lot's of Honorable Death. That seems to be the main stepping stone we used to make this argument.

Dutch said:
Oh you can do that. What you aren't allowed to do is saying than an outcome of an event is certain solely on that fact that this was the outcome during a similar event. Because while the issues might look alike, the factors and people involved are different and therefor the outcome of the event is too. No two (complex) events will ever play out the same, the human actor is just too likely to react differently.

Which is kinda ironic considering one of the goals of teaching people about history is to prevent them from making the mistakes of the past.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I take that irony to mean that human actors will respond differently in similar situations, but those different responses end up resulting in the same outcomes anyway. Basically there is a range of responses which all tie into a set of similar outcomes.

Academia Nut said:
Thus did the debate wrap up. The priests and worshipers from the south had many answers, but though they were steadfast in them, many of them ultimately fell flat to the priests of the People, frequently lacking in nuance... although the priests of the People admit that they can tell that these are second or third hand arguments and a direct debate against the Priests of Xohyr would have been much harder. As it is, while new gods are acknowledged as having a place within shrines and holy places, the worst or most troubling aspects to come from the south are stripped out. The wealth and power of the People - and the fact that they somewhat ironically ripped the still beating heart out of the priests of the gods they are debating - definitely goes a long way towards convincing people of the rightness of the People's own priests.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yay we won! We have a lot of nuance in our thoughts about the divine, when compared to these second and third hand arguments. A bit worrying, though expected, that the Xoh could have given us a difficult debate. Interesting that we absorbed some gods, the advantage of polytheism at work. Though monotheistic religions can do it to by demoting the gods and absorbing pieces of their portfolios into lesser spirits and saints. Funny in a morbid fashion, though also expected, that we had support from ripping out the beating heart of these priests. Demonstrated Might makes things Right.

Academia Nut said:
The debate, the celebrations of the divine meant to help encourage the priest's point of view, and a contingent of artisans to help explain land improvement methods also goes a long way towards convincing the lowlanders that the People really do have their best interests at heart, so when others are sent to get them to comply with the actual spirit of the laws laid down for them, they actually agree to follow the law more than just begrudgingly and within the most favourable reading of the letter for their own benefit. In particular, while slavery had been "banned" in prior years, now the renamed half-exiles were actually being treated as the People felt they should. Part of this was unfortunately driven by local leaders realizing that they would strip rivals of power by no longer having the "half-exiles" be overseen by individuals or families but by the local chief, and that they could also use the punishment against their rivals. This... wasn't ideal but it definitely was a step in the right direction.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hurray! Hurray! We got PTSD-chan to accept our Laws. And she liked it! Hurray!
Awesome synergistic combo is synergistic.
Sadly we still have some teaching to do, she's playing some funny business but that can be worked with over time. Also Influence Subordinate is a awesome action for this. When we do integrate them we want to turn them into a Colony I think. That's when coupled with fixing our admin, is basically our win condition for this era. If we can colonize the Lowlands and integrate piecemeal we win by sheer numbers.
That is all for the future though.

Academia Nut said:
It also revealed the fact that among the different provinces there were differences in opinion on how to "properly" implement the half-exile punishment process. That was probably a discussion for another day, but there was definitely a process at play that the People might find useful in the future.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
This may or may not suck when we get to doing The Law (Iron Age). We need to fix it eventually. Though I do have to give them a pat for putting it off when we have too much on our plates right now. Priorities!

Academia Nut said:
In less pleasant news, the Highlanders appeared to have decided that the People were being held back in the west and thus they should focus their efforts on the east, leading to significant losses from the fighting there... although this also meant that when the Red Banner were deployed to the west through Hatvalley the limited gains the Highlanders had made were rapidly reversed. Realizing that they weren't winning quickly enough in the east to let them actually sustain the fighting, the next time there was a parley they rapidly acquiesced to demands to cease fighting and pay tribute for starting shit they could not finish. This was probably a good thing as the Swamp Folk were proving a distinctly tough nut to crack and playing merry hell with the lowland villages, and the Thunder Horse looked to be getting their act together enough to take a swing. Fortunately, the Stallions and Hawks both heard this and sent some reinforcements to link up with the king's forces on a permanent basis.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ymaryn: "No! Bad HK!" *Whack!*
HK: *Grrrrrrrrrr!*
Ymaryn: *Whack*
HK: *whimper*
The HK over-extended again, when they turned from us before we were beaten. The losses suck but we seemed to tank it pretty well looking at our stats. We probably didn't nab any of their mines but we did beat them about the face and neck so they should sit down and stay down for a bit. Also not sure what is up with what the Stallions and HH did. Perhaps a Support Liege action that was made possible by our slightly improved roads?

Academia Nut said:
All in all, everything was a bit of a mess, but it could definitely be worse.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
*Crow_laughs_at_silly_humans.jpg*


To the Vote!

Thank you Umi-san for stating everything out.

[] [Main] Grand Palace
[] [Main] Grand Palace x2
[] [Secondary] Expand Economy

Has promise. -2 Econ and Art, +2 Expansion, from the Palace and +2 Econ with -2 Expansion from Econ. We'd end up around 5 Econ and maybe 11 Expansion after our various expenses, not counting whatever happens in the mid turn and what the provinces do. Our provinces may take a recruitment action, I think we are losing LTE either way though I am not sure, not losing any LTE. However, opportunity costs.
The Stallions start building the Dragonstone Temple. I expect they can finish it in one turn so by next turn based on the costs of our temples so we will have missed out chance to build it for them, we could integrate them on this next turn though. I am unsure how much that may mitigate any religious divides, of which there will be some since they do have at least one different spiritual trait.
We don't have the boost of Econ and Martial from integrating them that means we can prosecute the war that much more effectively. We Have Reserves is mildly broken ain't it?
Less admin strain.
Then comes what do we do on the next turns.

[] [Main] Grand Palace
[][Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes
[][Secondary] Integrate March - Stallion Tribes x2

Also has promise. Significant admin strain, however I remember a AN WoG stating that Yes we can handle it. This was before trails, on consideration I figure we still can but we can't integrate any more after that. We'd probably end up around 7 or 8 Econ and 12+ Base Martial and lots of Expansion. Kinda glad we got a boost to 12 for Sacred Forest popping. Not sure where that is from though, background techs or the new West Wall province we got? Winning the Debates and boosting Religious Authority? Opportunity costs.
We can build the Drangonstone temple. We also have to spend resources and actions to do this. Not many but it is a factor to consider. Religious divide avoided. The Martial and Econ boost is greatly appreciated when we have a war on two fronts. I already talked about the admin strain.
Then comes what do we do on the next turns.

So since I can't quite decide on either of these, though in all honesty I am leaning toward the second I would like to ask the thread to talk about what they intend to do in future turns if the first or the second goes through.

Lilithium said:
Just looked up the unfallen

I AM NOW IN BLISS HOLY CRAP this is my jaaaam those organic spaceships holy
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
You should look at the Treeships from Hyperion Cantos.
 
Last edited:
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top