Okay, I really have to ask, because I don't see how this will happen. What two stats do you plan to overflow for the golden age?

I can see a chance of overflowing mysticism, but that's it.
Whatever Balanced gives us, but most likely Mysticism and Econ. Provinces can, in a single turn, give us +12 Econ via 3x Expand Econ. While they likely won't do this, adding on the bonus from completing the megaproject means that it'll still happen very quickly. Art or Martial are also solid possibilities due to overflow for the former and auto-integrating the merc company for the latter. (If we have at least 5 available space we can add their score to ours and stop needing to pay them)

Either way, all that we really have to do is not spend many stats the turn after we finish the megaproject and we're virtually guaranteed to get Golden Age stats.
 
Either way, all that we really have to do is not spend many stats the turn after we finish the megaproject and we're virtually guaranteed to get Golden Age stats.

Provided we don't lose a stability to refugees.

If we do, the actions and resources to recover it are more than a little expensive for a status who's primary bonus is the ability to dump lots of resources into sudden developments when we've got lots of places to put those resources anyway.
 
Anyway, going to start figuring out the results of this vote, probably won't be an update tonight

[X] [Divine] Speak against it (-1 Religious Authority, potential trouble for heir)
[X] Red Banner Company - Northern Nomads
[X][Main]Sacred Forest Renewal
[X][Main]Sacred Forest Renewalx2
[X][Secondary]War Mission-Northern Nomads

By the way, you guys do remember that you're at risk of taking a stability drop this turn, which means that if you're at 2 Stability at the mid-turn you don't get a policy switch.​
 
By the way, you guys do remember that you're at risk of taking a stability drop this turn, which means that if you're at 2 Stability at the mid-turn you don't get a policy switch.
Yep. It's been calculated and our plans can still be completed even having to manually switch policy. If it does drop, it at least gives us +2 Art from the Festival which we'll need to complete the megaproject next turn.
 
I'm going to reiterate this once more, but connectivity is very much a problem. We've already had WoG that our system is approaching the point where we can't reliably get food to everyone. This is not a resource problem but an administration and logistics problem. Our system just does not scale.

We need to expand for Econ Slots, but expanding will make it worse since the new areas will not have trails nor will they have a reliable source of Econ. The last province we got changed our action spread instead of giving provinces a new action. There's also the upcoming province reshuffle removing some of our provincial actions.

We also know that more work put into Trails will change how they work and interact with Centralization.

The census is of primary use for assessing taxes and calling up levies for wars. It also helps you figure out which areas might be having specific problems.

With a grand temple with a library it is not necessary to have the Palace first, but its probably useful to have a central administration building first.

Depending on how things play out, we might be better off doing the initial Census with our Sacred Forest Library instead of waiting for the Palace.

By the way, you guys do remember that you're at risk of taking a stability drop this turn, which means that if you're at 2 Stability at the mid-turn you don't get a policy switch.

Yes. That's one of the reasons I wanted to do a manual switch over staying on Restoration. The other reason being the Art heavy Proclaim Glory as the only valid stability restorer available to the provinces if we end up at 2 Stability.
 
Yes. That's one of the reasons I wanted to do a manual switch over staying on Restoration. The other reason being the Art heavy Proclaim Glory as the only valid stability restorer available to the provinces if we end up at 2 Stability.

Province actions are chosen before the mid-turn, though. We should have pseudo-balanced actions no matter what this turn.
 
And as has pointed out, connectivity isn't the problem. Yes, there are some issues with connectivity, but our northern provinces are likely only considering it because of our low Diplomacy score. In story terms they are able to realize that they can completely stand on their own is the reason for possible, eventual succession. The problem here is our diplomacy score and not giving the northern provinces enough love and actions in general, integrating them does not fundamentally change this.
Integration is more expensive, it costs Diplomacy, where as expansion is solved much more easily by simply getting on the expansion policy while we personally build the palace.

After some thought I actually don't really give a poop about integrating one way or the other. I'm actually completely fine with just building things for them up there, since there is a legitimate point that integrating is resource expensive. Not sure that integrating won't affect the fundamental problem though.

Anyway in an attempt to clear this up I'll lay out what my read of the problem is, and then we can tackle this more coherently:

While all of this was happening, news came down from the north that nomadic tribes had decided to pick a fight with the Heaven's Hawks, but the Stallions had already mobilized to support them and support from the rest of the kingdom was unneeded. From the reports Rulwyna agreed, and resources could definitely be better used elsewhere, but then again she was somewhat concerned about the North feeling too autonomous, lest they start getting ideas that they simply didn't need the South. She knew that the People were stronger as one, but the northern provinces were being less hurt by the poor weather than the south- the nomads seemed to actually be doing better than usual!-, as well as less disrupted by the refugees that tended to come up from the lowlands. Everyone was confident that the People could meet whatever challenge the gods had set for them now, but that might change in the future.

Although after years of working at the problem, the group that had asked for funding and authority to find a way to harness the flowing of water had managed to get a design together that was capable of grinding grain and not breaking under the forces it was harnessing.
This is the main tell in the update. Rulwyna is concerned and as a hero she should be listened to.

As to the factors I see:
We have not built many nice things for them. Infrastructure like temples and salterns and aqueducts are wanted. This I agree is a major factor of the problem, though I do not consider it the only major factor.

We have a low diplomacy score. Thinking back to AN's WoG's this is another one. I don't know how much of an effect it has because his statement was geared at negative Diplo in particular, so above 0 may not have any effect beyond the marginal till it gets really high. It is on the up tick and I don't see us spending it any time soon(read: next 4 updates). We also really don't have the spare actions to raise it ourselves.

We fight for them and send warriors every time they are requested. Or most of the time at least(I can't remember a time we did not). This turn we are doing that, which does mitigate the ideas of schism because they don't need it and told us so, but we sent it anyway because we do care and consider them one of us.

We have not worked on trails up there very much. We did it once long ago, before the Stallions I think. I consider this another major factor because hard to cross distance, and thus lack of contact and exchange of ideas, is one of the major sources of divergence in my understanding. By building more and increasing connectivity we can slow down divergence and have time to correct the first factor.

We helped some with our boats. This has offset some of the other problems as a stop gap, but more needs to be done.



So, I figure with our current actions right now we are stemming the flow of divergence for the moment using a already established relationship tool. Beating on Nomads together is apparently a favorite.
From there I think we need to do a x2 Main Trails, at some point in the next 10 updates to attempt for a really useful tech upgrade. I'd be happy with a single main though in 2 to 3 updates. This works on reinforcing the holding measure we did with the war effort, and slows the problem down by itself.
Then from there we can look at the problem and determine what else needs to be done and what we have the opportunity and resources to do.

Thoughts?
 
Hypothetical PoC Video Game Design

So, if someone were to hire me to build a Paths of Civilization game, I would probably go with something Paradox-ish. I mean, if I had unlimited budget and access to devs I would probably bring in more of Sid Meier's Civilization elements, but for a game that would actually get made I would go with a more limited design. Within a Paradox style game I would probably do it with a real world map and start centred around the Eastern Mediterranean - the edges would probably be the north shore of the Black Sea, the Balkans, the second Nile cataract, and Bactra - and would run from say 5000 BC - 300 BC. Western Europe and India as well as a timeline extension to say 400 AD could be saved for expansion packs. The map would then be divided up into a large number of provinces, so the look would be very much like if someone decided to make the prequel game to Crusader Kings. Design would also have three distinct phases of early game, mid-game, and late game divided up into Neolithic, Bronze Age, and Iron Age.

The play style would however be very much closer to a combination of the Europa Universalis and Victoria games, only turn based, with each turn being maybe 5 to 10 years. Colonization, infrastructure development, and internal stability would be key goals, but the primary challenge would be balancing long term development with immediate survival. Over developing farmlands can lead to soil degradation and thus agricultural collapse, but you need to keep food production and granary supplies high in order to do things and keep people happy. There would also be a relatively complex resource dependency network, where again you should feel like you always need more resources just to stay ahead of the demands of the priests, bureaucrats, artisans, and warriors that keep your civilization running.

For research I would probably have something like a hybrid of Civilization and Victoria II, with a splash of Master of Orion 2. There would be a number of Main Techs in an interconnecting tree, but each Main Tech would also have a number of Secondary Techs that branch off. While everyone can develop the Main Techs, the secondaries are somewhat random in what actually opens up, weighted by environmental factors. The big thing though would be that tech develops primarily by use. Building lots of farms encourages the growth of farming tech, working with metals grows the smithing techs, and so on and so forth. Being in contact with other civilizations that have techs will also encourage the growth of those techs, dependent upon what policies you and they have. Somewhat related would be social values and policies, which would also develop over time, but new ones can open up with increasing technology, and then you have the question of retaining older but more developed systems or moving to initially less powerful values that have more room to grow.

There would be a fairly robust random and semi-random event system, with a strong emphasis on the environment being ready to kick you in the ribs at the slightest provocation, and your subordinates being total dickheads. In fact, I would put more emphasis on keeping your subordinates in order than necessarily conquering your neighbours, at least until the Iron Age. One of the big things I would emphasize is that there's not enough actions in a turn to do everything, and thus you need to delegate to the AI, which might be less competent than a human player but at least things are happening instead of everything grinding to a halt because the king doesn't have enough hours in a day.

Finally, the combat system would be fairly radically different than most of these sorts of systems. Each province would have a garrison and for the most part wars would be fought by setting garrisons on the edges of your territory to raid neighbours or explore or what have you. The direct movement of units would probably be restricted to a sort of mini-game when engaging other major kingdoms and empires proper, and/or restricted to the Iron Age.

So yeah, if I were to do this, I would start out relatively unambitious in terms of scope, limiting to a time period of the start of agriculture to the early classical period and within the Fertile Crescent. If I had more resources, including developer brain power, I would start by expanding the area a bit more and extending out the timeline to the classical period. More resources still and I would try to add in China (that or just focus on East Asia as its own standalone spinoff). Then if I could I would add in a random map maker, so that there could be more varied gameplay. Finally, if all of the above were working, then I would see about getting somewhat ridiculously ambitions and go for the full Civilization meets Paradox experience and extend out the timeline beyond the classical, hopefully all the way to the Information Age... although the shifts in gameplay along the way might make sensible to split it up into multiple games running off the same engine, each with somewhat different mechanics.
Is it wrong that I want to sit down with you and discuss specifics for the sake of it?
 
Either way dice will have fun giving tsundere results, and weather forecasts are never accurate. Wonder how the next generation remembers the 3 heros?
 
Province actions are chosen before the mid-turn, though. We should have pseudo-balanced actions no matter what this turn.
So far we have only gotten -1 stability from climate disruption in a turn, so if we get really unlucky we could get -1 from climate and -1 from refugees, causing our provinces to push us back up to 3 at the cost of doing anything else important.

That's only if we get really unlucky though.
 
So far we have only gotten -1 stability from climate disruption in a turn, so if we get really unlucky we could get -1 from climate and -1 from refugees, causing our provinces to push us back up to 3 at the cost of doing anything else important.

That's only if we get really unlucky though.

Only if we then don't switch policies next turn.
 
Even better, They are very likely to Proclaim Glory, which uses up Art.

How did you guys forget this? This has been a thing since ages ago.
Proclaim Glory - By using art the King can promote people to trust his decisions; modified by Diplomacy skill
* S: -2 Art, +1 Legitimacy
* M: -3 Art, -1 Econ, +1 Legitimacy, +1 Stability, potential +1 Prestige
* Max Stability: Legitimacy

Proclaim Glory is a King only action.

Edit: Apparently not, as it was done by the provinces last turn.
 
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So far we have only gotten -1 stability from climate disruption in a turn, so if we get really unlucky we could get -1 from climate and -1 from refugees, causing our provinces to push us back up to 3 at the cost of doing anything else important.

That's only if we get really unlucky though.
We might get a stability and legitimacy hit for telling everyone that our heir is wrong about the nature of the gods.
 
I'm a casual Civ gamer and I really find this quest great, so much so that I finally registered on SV.

I think the very strong point of the quest is the narrative stories especially the heroic Kings/leaders, not sure how that would translate into a game though.

The really intense challenge is also a great part of the quest, where every other turn we are beset by new challenges and had to re-prioritize plan. These are plenty rewarding when we did survive.

It may be hypothetical right now, but nothing is impossible.

Hypothetical PoC Video Game Design

So, if someone were to hire me to build a Paths of Civilization game, I would probably go with something Paradox-ish. I mean, if I had unlimited budget and access to devs I would probably bring in more of Sid Meier's Civilization elements, but for a game that would actually get made I would go with a more limited design. Within a Paradox style game I would probably do it with a real world map and start centred around the Eastern Mediterranean - the edges would probably be the north shore of the Black Sea, the Balkans, the second Nile cataract, and Bactra - and would run from say 5000 BC - 300 BC. Western Europe and India as well as a timeline extension to say 400 AD could be saved for expansion packs. The map would then be divided up into a large number of provinces, so the look would be very much like if someone decided to make the prequel game to Crusader Kings. Design would also have three distinct phases of early game, mid-game, and late game divided up into Neolithic, Bronze Age, and Iron Age.

The play style would however be very much closer to a combination of the Europa Universalis and Victoria games, only turn based, with each turn being maybe 5 to 10 years. Colonization, infrastructure development, and internal stability would be key goals, but the primary challenge would be balancing long term development with immediate survival. Over developing farmlands can lead to soil degradation and thus agricultural collapse, but you need to keep food production and granary supplies high in order to do things and keep people happy. There would also be a relatively complex resource dependency network, where again you should feel like you always need more resources just to stay ahead of the demands of the priests, bureaucrats, artisans, and warriors that keep your civilization running.

For research I would probably have something like a hybrid of Civilization and Victoria II, with a splash of Master of Orion 2. There would be a number of Main Techs in an interconnecting tree, but each Main Tech would also have a number of Secondary Techs that branch off. While everyone can develop the Main Techs, the secondaries are somewhat random in what actually opens up, weighted by environmental factors. The big thing though would be that tech develops primarily by use. Building lots of farms encourages the growth of farming tech, working with metals grows the smithing techs, and so on and so forth. Being in contact with other civilizations that have techs will also encourage the growth of those techs, dependent upon what policies you and they have. Somewhat related would be social values and policies, which would also develop over time, but new ones can open up with increasing technology, and then you have the question of retaining older but more developed systems or moving to initially less powerful values that have more room to grow.

There would be a fairly robust random and semi-random event system, with a strong emphasis on the environment being ready to kick you in the ribs at the slightest provocation, and your subordinates being total dickheads. In fact, I would put more emphasis on keeping your subordinates in order than necessarily conquering your neighbours, at least until the Iron Age. One of the big things I would emphasize is that there's not enough actions in a turn to do everything, and thus you need to delegate to the AI, which might be less competent than a human player but at least things are happening instead of everything grinding to a halt because the king doesn't have enough hours in a day.

Finally, the combat system would be fairly radically different than most of these sorts of systems. Each province would have a garrison and for the most part wars would be fought by setting garrisons on the edges of your territory to raid neighbours or explore or what have you. The direct movement of units would probably be restricted to a sort of mini-game when engaging other major kingdoms and empires proper, and/or restricted to the Iron Age.

So yeah, if I were to do this, I would start out relatively unambitious in terms of scope, limiting to a time period of the start of agriculture to the early classical period and within the Fertile Crescent. If I had more resources, including developer brain power, I would start by expanding the area a bit more and extending out the timeline to the classical period. More resources still and I would try to add in China (that or just focus on East Asia as its own standalone spinoff). Then if I could I would add in a random map maker, so that there could be more varied gameplay. Finally, if all of the above were working, then I would see about getting somewhat ridiculously ambitions and go for the full Civilization meets Paradox experience and extend out the timeline beyond the classical, hopefully all the way to the Information Age... although the shifts in gameplay along the way might make sensible to split it up into multiple games running off the same engine, each with somewhat different mechanics.
 
Proclaim Glory is a King only action.
Well they did it this last turn.

But this is not really an issue because if my understanding is not faulty then what @Glassware is saying is correct.


E: Basically next update is the midturn, provinces will act like we have 3 Stability and do pseudo balanced actions which won't touch Cent. Then the next update is a main turn and we can set them to balanced or expansion(probably expansion: though depending on resources, because balanced can get us art) and we don't have to worry about any silliness from them and our resources like art.
 
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