[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)

[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)

[X] [Value] Highlanders
 
Then choose art patronage Ruwynna even stated in the update that unless she goes to convince people they will not choose to use the new discovery.

So the logical progression of events should be Go to convince people of the discoveries usefulness>People see it's usefulness and want more>They research glass to better handle the substance

Another thing to consider if Ruwynna gets the support of the merchants and miners she could get the support needed to become king.

So you want to convince them to use a dye... that can't be used for lack of glass. the fact of the matter is that they will use it if it is economical.
 
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So you want to convince them to use a dye... that can't be used for lack of glass. the fact of the matter is that they will use it if it is economical.
If it can't be used in any quantities beyond demonstrating it with out glass, the logic is to make more glass so we can do more with this useful thing.

So she shows them it makes these pretty things using the poor ceramic containers, they see what it makes, but everyone realizes that they need glass to do it wide scale so they make glass.

We do not need glass first in order to demonstrate it's usefulness like you seem to think and get people interested, which is what she said in the update. Glass just helps later is the point we are trying to get at.
 
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Metal Workers
 
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn
 
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Metal Workers
 
Honestly us having sulfuric acid in what sounds like significant concentration might be better than gun powder. Sulfuric acid is considered the king of chemicals for a reason the sheer number of chemical processes it enables is staggering improved dyes are just the tip of the iceberg. I don't know if we know the process of distillation but if we don't and we figure it out and are able to produce close to pure alcohol then we are in a very good place in terms of basic chemistry.
 
Pioneering Spirit is gain a settlement reducing stability. This makes the roads issue worse, and introduces additional cultural drift. It would likely also drop legitimacy. Making it harder to gain stability.
We've had Pioneering Spirit before, and it doesn't do any of the things you claim. This is base fearmongering here, not in line with facts. It means disgruntled people will move to places they're more agreeable with and take up new trades, which we already do in Western Wall.

We also know of a polity which uses Enforce Law as its primary means of Stability regain YET the Highlanders are low-Centralization as a build, which indicates a few things about what they're doing it with.
Why glass work rather than art patronage? If we make people understand the importance of this discovery then glass work will naturally follow as more people will want the product and therefore innovations must be made to transport the product safely.
Two things:
-Glassworks involves spreading the knowledge that you need to use glass to contain vitriol. This is useful and important, though there is a chance that the knowledge is preserved, the most reliable way is to put it into practice.
--Glasswork enhances Study Alchemy, which since we have an upcoming Multi Heroic King, is very useful for continuing to figure out what the hell Lolwyna was working on.

-Art Patronage relies on the increased use of the new dyes, but the production process is currently unsafe, without using Glass. As with our mining, we need the glass in place before we start mass producing the new dyes with pottery that cannot safely contain the reagents.
Well my current understanding that I am operating on is that when base PS triggers it basically does the equivalent of a Main settlement and costs us 1 Cent, but you only need a Secondary Trails to counter the interconnection issue on a 1 to 1 basis which I am getting from that New Trails does +1 Cent as a Secondary. So for the narrative/hidden mechanical effect of our interconnection (i.e the marginal trails) a Main would be net positive on connection through trails since it counts as two secondaries.

Then a probable improved version should change this dynamic positively in my mind.

However, I will state that I am fine not getting it from them. They should have other useful traits for us to steal.
Basically. I don't really see keeping Center of Trade as a positive, since now that we have the Market revealed, the trait actually makes it much worse to acquire multiple Dominance. Our big problem is not with stat point income(which we already have Saltern, Temple and Library for) but with the Stability hits of the trait when dominance is threatened.
 
Oh well there goes any possibility of Ruwynna becoming king bye by King Ruwynna

It can be used it is just much more dangerous without glass but it can be stored in ash glazed pots temporarily if Ruwynna convinces the merchants and miners of the substances' usefulness as a dye they can then use their influence to build glass works.
How do you figure that?

Seems pessimistic, especially since the last couple lines of the update sound like her gearing up to take the People by storm and become king to me.


[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Metal Workers
[Curiosity] -> What interests you in the Metal Workers?
 
If it can't be used in any quantities beyond demonstrating it with out glass, the logic is to make more glass so we can do more with this useful thing.

So she shows them it makes these pretty things using the poor ceramic containers, they see what it makes, but everyone realizes that they need glass to do it wide scale so they make glass.

We do not need glass first in order to demonstrate it's usefulness like you seem to think and get people interested, which is what she said in the update. Glass just helps later is the point we are trying to get at.
The issue mostly is that it's pretty irresponsible to make it, because it CAN be made without glass, but unsafely(which means people will make it the dangerous way for profit). Therefore, make the glass, then promote the dye.

Noting that you always gain 1 Prestige from Main Art Patronage. This is not an event bonus.
 
We've had Pioneering Spirit before, and it doesn't do any of the things you claim. This is base fearmongering here, not in line with facts. It means disgruntled people will move to places they're more agreeable with and take up new trades, which we already do in Western Wall.
Pioneering Spirit does nothing about the stability, you have to fix that yourself. So if you go Econ -1 you lose 1 Stability, which triggers PS and sets you back up to Econ 0 at the cost of 1 Centralization, while you're still at -1 Stability.

You cannot go below -3 Stability, because there are mechanisms to restabilize, but they are distinctly unpleasant as they involve your civlization fracturing as people abandon social values they no longer feel are working. That's what happened to the lowlanders by the way.
 

What that does is thus.

Suffer a stability drop -> suffer a -1 Cent drop and gain +1 Econ.

Nothing else. You have to raise the Stability yourself, probably with the Econ you just gained.

PS does not cause the stab drop itself if that is what you are meaning.
 
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How do you figure that?

Seems pessimistic, especially since the last couple lines of the update sound like her gearing up to take the People by storm and become king to me.
Oh you weren't supposed to read that I usually right exaggerated thoughts post box then delete it helps calm me down. Regardless I admit that I was a tad pessimistic I can see the appeal in making sure that a product is safe to handle before introducing it to the masses I just feel that the higher ups should know of it's importance before hand.
 
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
You can try choosing the HK and try to find a trait that gives a better stability option
My doubt is, would another stability option actually help? Like what could we get from them? Their Order Above All trait sounds to me like they have a evolved Enforce line of Stability options, which don't help our Cent spending problems.

They won't give us nice headgear? :V
Is this not the dapperest hat you have seen?

 
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Narratively speaking - we need sulphuric acid for the new dyes, and we need glass to safely handle the acid. If I remember the mining correctly, the people first looked for the effects of mining and iron production, found a solution for storing the unhealthy remains and then started production.
Seems logical, that, if the requirement is already known, the usual way to go for it is to first satisfy the requirements and then go for the implementation.

[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)

//

For the refugee treatment - taking them in is in-character, but risking severe civil unrest while fighting a (or two) defensive wars seems unwise.

[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
Narratively speaking - we need sulphuric acid for the new dyes, and we need glass to safely handle the acid. If I remember the mining correctly, the people first looked for the effects of mining and iron production, found a solution for storing the unhealthy remains and then started production.
Seems logical, that, if the requirement is already known, the usual way to go for it is to first satisfy the requirements and then go for the implementation.

[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)

//

For the refugee treatment - taking them in is in-character, but risking severe civil unrest while fighting a (or two) defensive wars seems unwise.

[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
Luckily we only have one front to worry about for right now with NomadBuddies around if we want to nitpick but the point stands. :p

You can try choosing the HK and try to find a trait that gives a better stability option
Really what we want is probably a PS-like trait and Order Above All to give us other/better Enforce options.
 
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[X] [Prog] Art Patronage (-1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Refugee] Encourage those close to come (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ, possible new True City)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn

I think immediatly showing of that the alchemy actions were useful will have some positive political effects, since a lot of the people probably currently think it a waste of time by a lovestruck fool.

It has been a while since we have last taken people from the lowlands, so they have probably have some rad tech by now we can suck out of them in exchange for a bit of stability. A new true city would also be rad.

We need to lower centralisation and the hats are our best bet for that. We can also gain some added information about who we are currently brawling with, which is nice as well.
 
It has been a while since we have last taken people from the lowlands, so they have probably have some rad tech by now we can suck out of them in exchange for a bit of stability. A new true city would also be rad.
As a general FYI we do know that going negative stability when we have white base Martial and red bonus Martial has a very strong chance if not a certainty to trigger We Have Reserves malus, which in it's old form caused the HK Village Fiasco. So doing the -1 Stab option is kinda risky. I think we were at gold base and red bonus when the Fiasco happened.
 
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