[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn
 
Why do you believe that? He did try to clear it up once? If he did not intent to speak on the matter he simply would not have replied.
Because there is a limit on how much he is willing to give us information on subjects. And because I think he's a good GM he has already likely given us all the information we should need/have at this time on this one.
 
True, i meant any stats from dominance.
I'm personally fine with losing those even if it would suck in exchange for having a possible Pioneering Spirit like trait which we can use to drop out Centralization which is the main stopping block for our best Stability option Enforce Justice.

A good example is say we are at 2 Stability and 3 Cent and can take in a -2 Stability with chance for another, that is one stability drop which gives us a -1 Cent and +1 Econ under the original PS. This means we can take a Main Enforce and be fine at probably 2 Stability and 5 Cent or 1 Stability and 4 Cent if the second drop chance proced and we lost another cent. Our econ gains are also really nice.

And that's just base PS. The evolved form is gonna be more effective at what it does so I want it even more.

We've been looking for a Cent dropping option for a really long time and that's what PS is.
 
Because there is a limit on how much he is willing to give us information on subjects. And because I think he's a good GM he has already likely given us all the information we should need/have at this time on this one.

I disagree, the issue is not that we do not have information... if anything it is that we have too much, which is to say contradictory information. the sort of situation where a GM should offer clarification.
 
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn
 
I'm personally fine with losing those even if it would suck in exchange for having a possible Pioneering Spirit like trait which we can use to drop out Centralization which is the main stopping block for our best Stability option Enforce Justice.

A good example is say we are at 2 Stability and 3 Cent and can take in a -2 Stability with chance for another, that is one stability drop which gives us a -1 Cent and +1 Econ under the original PS. This means we can take a Main Enforce and be fine at probably 2 Stability and 5 Cent or 1 Stability and 4 Cent if the second drop chance proced and we lost another cent. Our econ gains are also really nice.

And that's just base PS. The evolved form is gonna be more effective at what it does so I want it even more.

We've been looking for a Cent dropping option for a really long time and that's what PS is.

Keep in mind we could also get a value that has nothing to do with PS.
 
[X] [Prog] Art Patronage (-1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] Hathatyn
 
Keep in mind we could also get a value that has nothing to do with PS.
Oh totally, CoT is an excellent example of that, but the Hats are our only possible source of something like PS so I think it's worth the effort to make a grab for something that will really help our build out.

The HK are my second choice because they may give us more stability options, but that is not quite what we need in my view since Centralization is our main sticking point for the last couple of turns.
 
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Why highlanders? I'm curious, we've seen over the years that they're nothing at all like us and they're hereditary as fuck.

I would like to change Centre of Trade, highlander is the most voted alternate.
It is a gamble, it could be better value or it could be worse.
I don't expect it to win, and will be fine with it losing

I prefer to have values attached to CA that do not risk losing stability.
Optimistically we will gain a stability or centralisation increasing value
Pessimistically we will get a hereditary value and vote it away asap
 
Going to have a go at the Hathatyn. Maybe we can grab the Pioneering Spirit evolution so we can drop Centralization to use for Enforce Justice without hurting New Trails.
Pioneering Spirit is gain a settlement reducing stability. This makes the roads issue worse, and introduces additional cultural drift. It would likely also drop legitimacy. Making it harder to gain stability.


[X] [Prog] Art Patronage (-1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] No
 
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
Why glass work rather than art patronage? If we make people understand the importance of this discovery then glass work will naturally follow as more people will want the product and therefore innovations must be made to transport the product safely.
Adhoc vote count started by Reader of all on Jun 17, 2017 at 5:41 AM, finished with 56313 posts and 60 votes.
 
Quick question have we ever evolved traits we got via CA? If not then that means we might not be able to evolve Center of Trade to mitigate its downsides so we should switch traits.
 
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But straight logic makes your interpretation completely incomprehensible. It means that AN was outright wrong in one or both statements, rendering them useless.
Theres only one way that Center of Trade can double Market benefits - namely being that the Market inherently generates Wealth from dominance. If it was informational, it couldn't be doubled!

There's no confusion here.
That's just not true.

Recent innovations means that Centre of Trade is no longer necessary to have access to the market, but it does double the benefits of market dominance. Change value supported by Cosmopolitan acceptance?
The first part of this statement is clear - with or without CoT, we have access to the market information. The second part is not. It can be taken as either "CoT's market dominance effect is doubled", where the "recent innovations" are doing the doubling, or "CoT now doubles the effect of market domination" where CoT itself is doing the doubling.

You will lose per turn Wealth generation if you drop Centre of Trade.
On its own, this statement just means that an indeterminate amount of Wealth generation per turn is lost. From the context of attempting to clear up this exact question though, it doesn't make sense as a statement specifying that only some is lost as opposed to all - therefore, unless @Academia Nut was being deliberately vague (in which case either interpretation is possible) he was specifying that all Wealth generation from this effect is lost.

I'm pretty sure the second statement (and remember, it was delivered second as an attempt to clear up confusion from the first) means that CoT is responsible for all market dominance effects.

Also:
Centre of Trade (CA Linked)
By controlling access to resources you can get other people to come to you with their resources, enriching you.
Pros: Gain bonus Diplomacy a turn for dominating certain forms of trade, early access to more advanced mechanics
Cons: Others entering your markets prompts anger and strife
Note how the bonus Diplomacy is distinct from the advanced mechanics - if domination bonuses were standard, this wouldn't be a separate point.

Quick question have we every evolved traits we got via CA? If not then that means we might not be able to evolve Center of Trade to mitigate its downsides so we should switch traits.
You have pulled that entirely from nowhere. If you want to go that route, then maybe we should keep CoT because it's going to evolve super soon as a result of all this trade we're dominating.
 
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] No
 
[X] [Prog] Build Glassworks (-1 Econ, +2 Art, increased chance of new innovations)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
Because we want the new dye on the market right now in order to not risk losing dominance with 0 stab and max martial
Then choose art patronage Ruwynna even stated in the update that unless she goes to convince people they will not choose to use the new discovery.
The dye merchants of Redshore would not want competition, but she was pretty sure that she could convince them that these new colours would only enhance their products, and also allow them to bring new colours to the markets. The Trelli had apparently caused upset by bringing out a brilliant yellow dye that was a solid competitor for the traditional red-violet dye of the People.
So the logical progression of events should be Go to convince people of the discoveries usefulness>People see it's usefulness and want more>They research glass to better handle the substance

Another thing to consider if Ruwynna gets the support of the merchants and miners she could get the support needed to become king.
 
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Pioneering Spirit is gain a settlement reducing stability. This makes the roads issue worse, and introduces additional cultural drift. It would likely also drop legitimacy. Making it harder to gain stability.


[X] [Prog] Art Patronage (-1 Econ, -2 Wealth, +4 Art, +1 Prestige)
[X] [Refugee] Those who arrive on their own (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Value] No
Well my current understanding that I am operating on is that when base PS triggers it basically does the equivalent of a Main settlement and costs us 1 Cent, but you only need a Secondary Trails to counter the interconnection issue on a 1 to 1 basis which I am getting from that New Trails does +1 Cent as a Secondary. So for the narrative/hidden mechanical effect of our interconnection (i.e the marginal trails) a Main would be net positive on connection through trails since it counts as two secondaries.

Then a probable improved version should change this dynamic positively in my mind.

However, I will state that I am fine not getting it from them. They should have other useful traits for us to steal.
 
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