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Paths of Civilization

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[X] [Curr] Yes, for everyone (Stability loss?, Other effects?, establishes currency)
[X] [Horse] Openly allow but regulate it (-1 Religious Authority, potential stability loss)
[X] [Infra] Build aqueduct in Sacred Forest (-4 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion, increased True City threshold)
[X] [Hero] Provide sponsorship (Main Study Tailings under Mystic Hero, possible Legitimacy loss, possible Religious Authority loss)
 
McLuvin said:
Also thats mutual gift exchange not telling the merchants what to do, that's different from basically saying 'if you don't do this you can't come back in', it's saying 'we want a gift, you'll get a gift in return' it's a different system and it's the traders saying that they want good gifts or maybe they won't bring as good a gift next time, thus giving them more power and independence
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Because we don't actually have anybody passing through our territory on the way to someone else. We're the endpoint for any traders that come through.

And while yes, it is informal now, if people start upsetting the system, it will become formal very quickly.
 
Abby Normal said:
...you know, i wonder if the loss in religious authority comes less from people doing something considered spiritually wrong and more from the fact that "The king had a dream about this spiritually corrupt practice actually being good" is being established as a legitimate means of changing spiritual norms... @Academia Nut ?
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Priests said to do X, king said no, king won, why should we listen to the priests?

Hangwind said:
Why weren't the other civs affected by the famine?
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The disruption was caused by unstable rains, which tend not to fall in the lowlands and weren't bad enough in the steppes to disrupt grazing. There was more flooding in the lowlands, but it wasn't so bad. Multiple minor RNG things contributed to the trade disruption.

Abby Normal said:
how is our population looking nowadays, both in actual number and in comparison to other civs?
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Hmmm... not yet a million, but definitely over half a million. Hard to say if you're bigger than the entire Thunder Xoh Empire thingy, but the two are definitely equivalent.

Citino said:
1. How does one get elected to Spirit Chief?
2. How did our hero solve the plague?
3. How well liked/disliked is our hero among the shamans?
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1.) The spirit advisors of the provincial chiefs and the provincial level shaman/priests elect someone to the position
2.) Draining unnecessary standing water whenever possible and promoting the planting of certain pungent plants, along with refining them into potions and incenses to produce purifying fumes that drive away both insects and demons of disease
3.) Lolwyna is odd. Her insights are uncanny but her social skills are relatively poor, so she's not well liked even if she is respected and well known

McLuvin said:
Shit.... then how comes the Hath are so weak and south easterly focused?
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From the traders, they probably controlled more than one river valley system in their territory and mostly controlled those, while much of the space in between were villages and herders that didn't pay much attention to the proclamations of kings. They likely used the coasts to hold things together, and Trelli started as a colony or trading post that broke away later.
 
[X] [Curr] Yes, in Valleyhome
[X] [Horse] Openly allow but regulate it (-1 Religious Authority, potential stability loss)
[X] [Infra] Build aqueduct in Sacred Forest (-4 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion, increased True City threshold)
[X] [Hero] Provide sponsorship (Main Study Tailings under Mystic Hero, possible Legitimacy loss, possible Religious Authority loss)

Forgot to vote but:

Academia Nut said:
"Right, right, the bwyll has just been a way to keep ledgers balanced and plan for the future, but in Valleyhome there were so many people that many of the clerks were having trouble keeping track of who had received what. Some of them started handing out little clay tokens stamped with the word bwyll on them to workers who had earned the day's rations, to be handed back in. Unfortunately, at some point workers started making their own tokens.
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Started with Fiat based currency.
Immediately discovered people cheating it.
Humanity.txt

Shaved silver coin is going to be a pain in the ass, but that's one thing the medieval punishments were right on: Kill counterfeiters publically and messily.

Foreseeable issues with Silver currency is:
-Softness. Coins wear out quickly due to soft metal.
--Solve by alloying it with copper or iron to increase hardness.
---Which leads to the 'genius' idea that leads to currency depreciation by using ever smaller amounts of silver in official currency.

-Forgery. You could copy the currency markings onto smaller pieces of silver to amplify your cash.
--Solve by making the markings more complex, which makes the coins cost more to make in artisan time than they are worth.
--Solve by implementing standard weights and measures for checking.

-Theft. Theft becomes FAR easier when significant wealth is portable and small.
--Solve by Blackbirds everywhere.

-Currency skew. Currently silver runs off one mine. If anything happens to our silver supply...well tricky.
--Solve by opening/acquiring more silver mines for supply stability

Oh well, every culture had to deal with this shit.
 
McLuvin said:
Shit.... then how comes the Hath are so weak and south easterly focused?
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See, there was this whole burning land thing they had going that caused a sudden and unexpected Stability drop. And before that, no one really messed with them. We were focused on the Nomads and the Highlanders were focused on the TH.
 
McLuvin said:
Shit.... then how comes the Hath are so weak and south easterly focused?
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...Were they though? We were described as being from behind their backwoods area when we met them, so i think they were focused elsewhere...or i could be blackbirded by AN:
Academia Nut said:
From the traders, they probably controlled more than one river valley system in their territory and mostly controlled those, while much of the space in between were villages and herders that didn't pay much attention to the proclamations of kings. They likely used the coasts to hold things together, and Trelli started as a colony or trading post that broke away later.
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Also, wow, no wonder we pissed them off by taking the land on one side of the Hatriver (...that is the name of the river as well as the march right?),that river mouth was of a handful of power bases for them.

Academia Nut said:
Hmmm... not yet a million, but definitely over half a million. Hard to say if you're bigger than the entire Thunder Xoh Empire thingy, but the two are definitely equivalent.
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Oooh, sweet, thats good that we're keeping up...
Academia Nut said:
Priests said to do X, king said no, king won, why should we listen to the priests?
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So Religious Authority is definitely about how much the people (and the chiefs) listen to the priests...so we probably want to keep it at about ~2-4? Definitely not something we want in the yellow...
Can you clarify what led to us going from 1 to 2 on it, btw? I think it was last turn?
Academia Nut said:
1.) The spirit advisors of the provincial chiefs and the provincial level shaman/priests elect someone to the position
2.) Draining unnecessary standing water whenever possible and promoting the planting of certain pungent plants, along with refining them into potions and incenses to produce purifying fumes that drive away both insects and demons of disease
3.) Lolwyna is odd. Her insights are uncanny but her social skills are relatively poor, so she's not well liked even if she is respected and well known
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What is her stat spread, if we can know that?
veekie said:
--Solve by implementing standard weights and measures for checking.
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I think we already have it, at least as far as smiths measuring their metal; thats what the lead slugs mentioned in the update were for, right?
veekie said:
-Currency skew. Currently silver runs off one mine. If anything happens to our silver supply...well tricky.
--Solve by opening/acquiring more silver mines for supply stability
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Two mines, actually. THe Hatriver march captured one of the Hath's galena mines, which is silver/lead i think.
 
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Hangwind said:
Honestly, the biggest one for me would be that anyone anywhere doesn't charge a toll for going through a strait that they control.
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It's more that they won't let people through and are trying to force themselves to be the trade nexus between east and west, it's pretty dickish to basically say, 'you can't go through here, do as we say because we have more ships'

It's blatantly aggressive and makes them a serious danger to our trade dominat goods, which could cause massive social strife and hurt our civ pretty badly.

Better to strike them in a century or so and not only claim thier riches, and humble them, but also ensure they can't threaten our civ with thier artificially enhanced trade power
 
Academia Nut said:
Priests said to do X, king said no, king won, why should we listen to the priests?



The disruption was caused by unstable rains, which tend not to fall in the lowlands and weren't bad enough in the steppes to disrupt grazing. There was more flooding in the lowlands, but it wasn't so bad. Multiple minor RNG things contributed to the trade disruption.



Hmmm... not yet a million, but definitely over half a million. Hard to say if you're bigger than the entire Thunder Xoh Empire thingy, but the two are definitely equivalent.



1.) The spirit advisors of the provincial chiefs and the provincial level shaman/priests elect someone to the position
2.) Draining unnecessary standing water whenever possible and promoting the planting of certain pungent plants, along with refining them into potions and incenses to produce purifying fumes that drive away both insects and demons of disease
3.) Lolwyna is odd. Her insights are uncanny but her social skills are relatively poor, so she's not well liked even if she is respected and well known



From the traders, they probably controlled more than one river valley system in their territory and mostly controlled those, while much of the space in between were villages and herders that didn't pay much attention to the proclamations of kings. They likely used the coasts to hold things together, and Trelli started as a colony or trading post that broke away later.
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Also, can we have an update on local pantheons at some point in the future please, we've seen some development in our gods and the Xoh and Thunder Horse seem to have soldified a religion and we know nothing about the Hath and Metal Worker gods...
As long as it isn't too much of a bother
 
I'm quite surprised at Stallions March and Western colony building iron mines on their own. Probably a good idea to send a surprise inspection to check if the tailing ponds are done properly and if anyone's selling iron on the side.

Now we wait for revenge of the nomad again.
 
Hangwind said:
See, there was this whole burning land thing they had going that caused a sudden and unexpected Stability drop. And before that, no one really messed with them. We were focused on the Nomads and the Highlanders were focused on the TH.
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AN just answered, it seems that aside from a few river valleys they didn't exercise much control across the countryside, probably due to being a Coalition of city states originally and having low centralisation
 
Abby Normal said:
Can you clarify what led to us going from 1 to 2 on it, btw? I think it was last turn?
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What did the temple complex do last turn?

(I'm trying not to make every stat change explicit because sometimes things happen that its hard to keep track of where they came from, although I will typically drop clues)

McLuvin said:
Also, can we have an update on local pantheons at some point in the future please, we've seen some development in our gods and the Xoh and Thunder Horse seem to have soldified a religion and we know nothing about the Hath and Metal Worker gods...
As long as it isn't too much of a bother
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Eventually yeah, I just have this other side project I keep pecking away at.
 
McLuvin said:
It's more that they won't let people through and are trying to force themselves to be the trade nexus between east and west, it's pretty dickish to basically say, 'you can't go through here, do as we say because we have more ships'

It's blatantly aggressive and makes them a serious danger to our trade dominat goods, which could cause massive social strife and hurt our civ pretty badly.

Better to strike them in a century or so and not only claim thier riches, and humble them, but also ensure they can't threaten our civ with thier artificially enhanced trade power
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They are. Stuff like that is how you become a trade nexus. Seriously, look at history, or current politics.

They could. And? I want to evolve our trade trait.

So...steal all their stuff. In a blatant act of aggression. Just like the Nomads. How about no?
 
Academia Nut said:
What did the temple complex do last turn?

(I'm trying not to make every stat change explicit because sometimes things happen that its hard to keep track of where they came from, although I will typically drop clues)



Eventually yeah, I just have this other side project I keep pecking away at.
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Ah yeah, duh, library got added to the temple complex...and there was a discussion just a little bit ago about how this update our hero was specifically listening to the writings in the library more than himself, and since the library is curated by the shamans...and maybe also even read to the king by the shamans in case they are one of the marginally literate chiefs... (which i think is still the norm for chiefs and kings? And also not uncommon for shamans, at least before the library?) I clearly need to get more sleep D=

And oooh, like another quest? I am torn between joy and sadness, because your quests are always amazing, and more is always good, but i really like how often this one updates :p Either way if it is another quest hopefully this time i wont miss it being posted :p
 
McLuvin said:
It's more that they won't let people through and are trying to force themselves to be the trade nexus between east and west, it's pretty dickish to basically say, 'you can't go through here, do as we say because we have more ships'

It's blatantly aggressive and makes them a serious danger to our trade dominat goods, which could cause massive social strife and hurt our civ pretty badly.

Better to strike them in a century or so and not only claim thier riches, and humble them, but also ensure they can't threaten our civ with thier artificially enhanced trade power
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We only just met them, and they're quite far away, so they're not going to be significant challenge to our trade anytime soon. A war we're unlikely to win at best would hurt us far more than their effects on our trade, and the study tailings action apparently might lead to an improvement to our dyes anyway, which is the only dominant good that they're challenging.
 
Hangwind said:
So...steal all their stuff. In a blatant act of aggression. Just like the Nomads. How about no?
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They are one city state that posses are real threat to our civ via threatening our COT Dominants, really it's for the 'Greater Good' more people live in our empire and more people would suffer due to them continuing independent than being vassals
Hangwind said:
They could. And? I want to evolve our trade trait
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And how many more centuries will that take? How do we even know that will fix the problems the Trilli cause?
Hangwind said:
They are. Stuff like that is how you become a trade nexus. Seriously, look at history, or current politics
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We became a trade Nexus without that behaviour, so did the Xoh! Even the baby killers were more polite about it (not that that redeems those bastards in any way)
 
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