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Paths of Civilization

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I kind of really want to know the reactions of the other civilisations this coming turn. We'll have gone from no pilgrimage to a Great Temple and Leading pilgrimage. In particular, I'm wondering about what the reactions will be from the Highlands Kingdom, the Hathatyn, and the Metal Workers. The Thunder Speakers and the Xohyssiri are also spiritually strong entities, but we're much closer to the HK, Hat, and MW than them and we're not at war with the HK.

EDIT: In the case of the Metal Workers, even though there's a great deal of distance between us, water is more easily and quickly traversed than ground, we have a trading post near their territory, and we're giving them aid in the wake of them opening a gate to the Underworld - a very spiritually traumatic thing for them to do.
 
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Andres110 said:
I kind of really want to know the reactions of the other civilisations this coming turn. We'll have gone from no pilgrimage to a Great Temple and Leading pilgrimage. In particular, I'm wondering about what the reactions will be from the Highlands Kingdom, the Hathatyn, and the Metal Workers. The Thunder Speakers and the Xohyssiri are also spiritually strong entities, but we're much closer to the HK, Hat, and MW than them and we're not at war with the HK.
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AN said that next chapter is going to include descriptions of locations, maybe itll be from the eyes of a pilgrim.
 
Andres110 said:
I kind of really want to know the reactions of the other civilisations this coming turn. We'll have gone from no pilgrimage to a Great Temple and Leading pilgrimage. In particular, I'm wondering about what the reactions will be from the Highlands Kingdom, the Hathatyn, and the Metal Workers. The Thunder Speakers and the Xohyssiri are also spiritually strong entities, but we're much closer to the HK, Hat, and MW than them and we're not at war with the HK.
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HT don't matter, but increased prestige might increase # of refugees and # of bandits both.
HK might be pissed, might not. They seem to lack cultural focus, and their focus on family lineage is essentially secular.
MW seem secular, too. They don't seem inclined to leave their home, though.

TS will be pissed: we're near enough to their lands on both sides to steal supplicants.
XS will be irritated but kind of meh. They have art and were never Dominant in Pilgrimage.
 
DocMatoi said:
AN said that next chapter is going to include descriptions of locations, maybe itll be from the eyes of a pilgrim.
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I'm pretty sure AN was saying that the "next chapter' after the post @Sivantic quoted had a description of valleyhome. specifically, i think that was the update with the hospice care place, where our king at the time described in decent detail how amazing the view of the city from said hospice was
 
Umi-san said:
TS will be pissed: we're near enough to their lands on both sides to steal supplicants.
XS will be irritated but kind of meh. They have art and were never Dominant in Pilgrimage.
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They are already annoyed at us because of our policies to take in refugees and runaways, this might push them enough that they declare war on us.
 
Umi-san said:
HT don't matter, but increased prestige might increase # of refugees and # of bandits both.
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It might be enough to make diploannexation of the entire region possible (or perhaps it might if the Hathatyn completely collapse) or else it'll give us some serious influence among them once they pick themselves up (in other words becoming their Spirit Talkers).

Umi-san said:
MW seem secular, too. They don't seem inclined to leave their home, though.
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MW just opened up a doorway into the (literally) gods damned Underworld and we're giving them aid right after building a Great Temple and letting everyone know how cool our gods are. Even if they were secular before, they won't be for long.

Killer_Whale said:
They are already annoyed at us because of our policies to take in refugees and runaways, this might push them enough that they declare war on us.
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They're too busy with the Highlands Kingdom, and they'll especially be busy with them now that they have significant amounts of bronze.
 
Killer_Whale said:
They are already annoyed at us because of our policies to take in refugees and runaways, this might push them enough that they declare war on us.
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I think that the Xoh and HK would be too busy beating on each other to care about us, even though we get more irritating. Two front wars are not fun. Neither are single front ones but they do seem to happen quite frequently.
 
Amusingly enough, the Ymaryn might actually be able to put a stop to this coal seam fire, or at least help the Metal Workers to do it. Divert a stream into the mouth of the cave, fill the whole damned thing with water?
 
Godwinson said:
Amusingly enough, the Ymaryn might actually be able to put a stop to this coal seam fire, or at least help the Metal Workers to do it. Divert a stream into the mouth of the cave, fill the whole damned thing with water?
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Might work. Actually sounds somewhat similar to what China does now with their coal fires.
 
Killer_Whale said:
They are already annoyed at us because of our policies to take in refugees and runaways, this might push them enough that they declare war on us.
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I mean... we've been available in that regard for as long as they remember, so I assume by now it's just a fact of life. Considering that the XS might still like us do to our tech exchange, and currently rules the empire, they might not attack us.

We rly need to kill them tho. They own an empire for crow's sake.

Andres110 said:
It might be enough to make diploannexation of the entire region possible (or perhaps it might if the Hathatyn completely collapse) or else it'll give us some serious influence among them once they pick themselves up (in other words becoming their Spirit Talkers).
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I pray that this is so *makes a random crowing sound at the sky*. The HK's growth into the HT's territory is disconcerting.
 
Andres110 said:
It might be enough to make diploannexation of the entire region possible (or perhaps it might if the Hathatyn completely collapse) or else it'll give us some serious influence among them once they pick themselves up (in other words becoming their Spirit Talkers).
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We should build the Palace before growing that large. Administrating an area that size with our current government type and abilities will be very difficult or impossible.
 
Killer_Whale said:
We should build the Palace before growing that large. Administrating an area that size with our current government type and abilities will be very difficult or impossible.
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In truth, I'm expecting that they'll become our vassals rather than a full (or even periphery) province of ours, similar to how the TS and Xoh are vassals to the Thunder Horse. That alone should be advantageous to us, as it gives us full access to their trade routes, closes off the possibility of them raiding us any more, and gives us another military ally in case we're attacked. We have the Prestige and the Legacy for it.
 
Killer_Whale said:
We should build the Palace before growing that large. Administrating an area that size with our current government type and abilities will be very difficult or impossible.
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Our government type is specifically designed to ease administration of disparate areas. By all appearances, it is no farther from Valleyhome than Blackmouth nor larger than the Stallion Tribes.

Andres110 said:
In truth, I'm expecting that they'll become our vassals rather than a full (or even periphery) province of ours, similar to how the TS and Xoh are vassals to the Thunder Horse.
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The difference is that atm the HT are shattered, whereas the TH and Xoh were more or less coherent entities prior to their vassalization.

E: I would prefer to take both the dam and the palace slow, so as to gain maximal benefits, technologically.
 
Necratoid said:
-The Saltern
-Molusk cultivation.

You know the trade items The People dominate... and no one knows how The People get these things? The ones most likely to make HK cut The People off to the SW so they can get in on things. Once those genies are out of the bottle sea front property is insanely better for expansion routes.

-Canals

So your saying the thread is fine with giving away many to all of its advantages to prop up Civs they don't actually like? That is self sabotage incarnate. There are only so many freebies before the need to Uplift other Civs makes the good stuff up for grabs once an idiot in power has too much to drink.

You also think that releasing the tech to the current crop of Civs will protect them from themselves? This wreaks of guilt driving uplift experiments. Those almost always end badly. Particularly first attempts.
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Uh...seeing none of those helps much with MAKING them.
The snail farms are underwater, but copying them just gives you underwater towers unless you know what the snails feed on and how to encourage that.
The Saltern is a common basic concept as that's how people collected much of their salt on a smaller scale, you need either Iron or Bronze Tools(but everyone went for Bronze weapons) to do it without our Divine Stewards line to break through by sheer cultural dedication to work. Also you need a coast and we ate all the coast we can see.
The Canal is like the Saltern, anyone who can build irrigation already knows it's possible. Nobody can get enough manpower to dig it without eating a massive manpower disruption, even with iron tools, while the geography also has to be right for it.

Overall, tech transfers strongly favor the repository of knowledge. Most visitors will not be able to 'bring home' technology by seeing it if they lacked the social infrastructure and background for it. Observe, for instance, the lack of ability to learn and retain the extremely simple Cholera cure despite us going out of our way to make sure they learned.

As such, most cultures will have to copy our traits first to get a shot. Or visit us with a Hero...in which case cool, Hero passing through peacefully is beneficial to us.
VoidZero said:
-2/10. Not enough armor.:p

Wonder if people will create metallic chest armor? It's usually the arrow to the chest that disables and kills people, penetration to organs and blood vessel.
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Armor is one of those things where it's actually easier to discover from Bronze. Shaping iron into armor is a pain in the ass compared to cast bronze breastplates
notgreat said:
Since Enforce is hated by the Trails crew, it really had no chance.
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The Heroic Admin King said in the update itself that Enforce is doomed to implode the day he leave office because we don't have the means to do it without a superman.
Andres110 said:
I'm pretty sure that's for trade only. Our shamans' livelihoods are not dependent on pilgrims. If we had Sacred War it would gave a casus belli, but as it is it won't.

On that note, Centre of Trade itself does not give casus belli. What it does is make people angry when others come into the market, but that alone is no more justification for war than any other variant of "because I want to go to war and profit from it". Two things will happen if that con is hit: either it'll clash with Symphony and stuff will happen from that, or the king will have to increase production to regain Dominance in a peaceful manner.
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The guys making and selling souvenirs, transport and food along the way would probably be a little upset
 
Godwinson said:
Amusingly enough, the Ymaryn might actually be able to put a stop to this coal seam fire, or at least help the Metal Workers to do it. Divert a stream into the mouth of the cave, fill the whole damned thing with water?
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Depends on the extent of the fire. If it's large and wide enough, diverting a smaller stream may simply make it produce boiling mist at the same time.
 
Umi-san said:
E: I would prefer to take both the dam and the palace slow, so as to gain maximal benefits, technologically.
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We didn't gain any techs from taking the Forest, Canal, or Temple slow. We seem to gain more choices, we have a larger influence on exactly what it looks like and how it affects our culture, but we don't gain tech.

veekie said:
The Heroic Admin King said in the update itself that Enforce is doomed to implode the day he leave office because we don't have the means to do it without a superman.
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I'm not voting for Enforce either, but there's no need to exaggerate. It'd likely be golden Centralization; problem-causing but not imploding. Unfortunately, those problems would be causing corruption so it wouldn't help solve this problem.
 
Reader of all said:
I do not think there are any tech benefits for the dam we have had that project since the stone age
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Engineering experience and tech upgrades. We have never done something this extreme with our water works A dam is not an easy thing to build. We got it in the stone age because of our dedication to the land and hard work.
 
notgreat said:
I'm not voting for Enforce either, but there's no need to exaggerate. It'd likely be golden Centralization; problem-causing but not imploding. Unfortunately, those problems would be causing corruption so it wouldn't help solve this problem.
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It's something only a Hero has much chance of:
Academia Nut said:
More bluntly, he could simply increase the enforcement of law in general and force more cases to be brought before his review rather than lower level chiefs and thus begin dismantling the conspiracy without the mass deployment of warriors... but while he knew that he could handle the workload, could his successors? He would be setting a potent precedent.
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Even if it takes 'only' Good Admin it's basically going to fold like the taxes
 
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