Dont we have a value that hurts us if we dont properly support our subordinates? A token effort is a tad risky because of that, especially since we "lost" a march.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
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Dont we have a value that hurts us if we dont properly support our subordinates? A token effort is a tad risky because of that, especially since we "lost" a march.
BungieONI
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*Pops back in, sees the salt flowing*
Huh.
Anyhoo~. If the Waaagh is looking to be a Big Waaagh then I'd advocate pausing the megas next turn, like notgreat says. If we give them a good thwap upside the head they should be set on the back foot and need to balance themselves giving us some breathing room.
I'm kinda torn on the Palace vs the Dam. They are basically the same cost resource wise except in Art for the Palace.
The Dam:
Pro: We may want to take the Dam in part because we can support it with Econ Actions, and let Diplo overflow into Art and Mysticism, prepping us for a Golden Age. Let's us make full use out of chinampas. Gives us massive disaster resistance. Advances engineering.
Con: We have a war on hand. Will have to juggle War Missions (Lord's Loyalty requires them more than likely) and Econ generating actions. We will not be dealing with our accumulating admin strain as effectively.
The Palace:
Pro: Very likely to raise Legitimacy. Potentially may raise Centralization and Hierarchy caps. May provide an admin tech. If built after the Library, encourages it to become a repository of administrative lore. General easing of the admin strain due to centralization of resources important to clerks and other administrators. Advances engineering.
Con: We have a war on hand. Will have to juggle War Missions (Lord's Loyalty requires them more than likely) and Econ generating actions, and an Art Generating action at least once till Diplo overflows into Art. We will not be preparing as heavily for disasters.
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Personally I'd put Palace before Dam. I'd also value both Place to the Stars and The Games more than you do on this list, but I wouldn't actually re-order them.
I also would love to spend a turn or two on progressive policy, I would also love to get a [Main] Black Soil out soon. There is a good chance that will allow us to grow in more places, remember increased black soil was one of the predicted ways of making the Red Hills more inhabitable.
But yeah, I'm not too worried about megaproject rush at this point. I think we kinda have to accept we need to do it. If we were to go off of it purposefully, I'd like to do it during the Palace to gain more admin techs. Even then, that's likely to only take a turn or two before we switch back on to megaproject support.
BungieONI
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I wonder if we can enter a Wonder Age by rolling out continuous megaprojects? Sounds like a really bad idea sadly...
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The way I understood it is that our Econ isn't for the whole of the People but just the core. The provinces can still build.
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I'm super excited! Most people are harshing on my excitedness though by constantly complaining we're going to try and attract pilgrims.
Considering the cost of megaprojects? No, not really.
BungieONI
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Ahh... no.
The provinces(Valleyhome, Stonepen, Redshore, etc) spend our Econ. The Econ is for the whole of us plus the provinces (Us being the State and the King). The Marches and Colonies and Trade Posts all have their own stats though, separate from ours. However, us going on defense does diddly for them, since periphery states like marches and trade posts are not really affected by policies. The two marches are also basically fully fortified.
With mega project support pretty likely to win, I had another thought and that because the Library came about from inspiration by an administrative hero unlocking primitive indexing, there's a chance that building this will naturally improve it. Given we're having difficulties within the city, it certainly seems like it would be a valuable technology to get it not as good as building the palace would be.
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[X][Library] Sacred Forest
[X][Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X][Corruption] Deploy force
[X][Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X][Policy] No change
Locking this in
[X][Temple] Let the glory of your gods be known far and wide (+1 Prestige, Pilgrimage trade power increased)
[X][Corruption] Deploy force
[X][Diplo] Send aid to the Metal Workers (-2 Diplo, -2 Econ, -2 Art, -2 Mysticism)
[X][Policy] No change
Locking this in
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So I remembered right that the Marches/Colonies have their own Econ so changing to a Defensive policy will still be good for them.
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Our defences are not their defences, our econ is not their econ, we'd not do anything but fortify ourselves
Token effort is what's required now, yes. Previously we had almost no requirement to help them. Also it's important to notice that the Colony can still do defensive War Missions, they just can't do offensive ones.
Note that what I'm considering a token effort is still quite a lot. I'm counting it as a [Main], which is twice what the likely minimum is (a [Secondary]). A [Main] is easily enough to not take penalties, though it also likely won't evolve the trait further. If they are having trouble we can aid them in the mid-turn.
BungieONI
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What McLuvin said. Also going defensive stops our Baby Boom cold. And puts us at -3 Expansion, which is rather bad.
Guile
Having a really great time right now
For future reference @Academia Nut , if we switch to Defense policy can we specify that the walls be built in our marches, or at least specific provinces? That would have changed my vote back if it were possible.
Instead of megaproject spam, we could take our time to deal with the war, spend a few turns turning back on the Golden Age with also-valuable projects like Black Soil or Snail Cultivation or whatever, THEN get on megaprojects.
We were so, so damn close to a Golden Age, but instead we spent 7 effective Main actions and a lot of stats on the Temple.
See, this. This right here is what I question. Why do we need to start a new megaproject?
Instead of megaproject spam, we could take our time to deal with the war, spend a few turns turning back on the Golden Age with also-valuable projects like Black Soil or Snail Cultivation or whatever, THEN get on megaprojects.
We were so, so damn close to a Golden Age, but instead we spent 7 effective Main actions and a lot of stats on the Temple.
I think dedicating a [Main] period on the first turn of combat is a good move. Making sure the first hit the March takes against its walls is stymied as much as possible means that the subsequent ones will do significantly less damage and be easier for them to handle.
It's a difference of probably about 2 points of Martial.
Though hopefully they'll attack the Thunder Speakers, one of our competitors for pilgrims.
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The nice thing about Pilgrims? They come to us to get Wololo'd.
BungieONI
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pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
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I'm having some trouble following the logic behind this choice, at least versus the choice for a direct tech advancement. It seems generally counter to our usual modus operandi.
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We aren't aiming for dominated, we are aiming for either significant or leading to stop the Xoh from basically turning the Lowlands into babykiller central and to ensure that we can steal tech via Library/Temple/Pilgrim synergy. It's easier to steal tech if you can record the details, instead of having to trek all the way back with possibly spotty information
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But doesn't Policies effect the entirety of the People? It's basically saying "This is what we're focusing on", hence why they can switch over to a Megaproject if we do "Megaproject Support".
But even without the Policy change they will still build what they want. If enemies are approaching they'll focus on defense, this is just a way to show support in pre-emptively building defenses. It's not really a big deal.
The more important thing, in my mind, is what @BungieONI said about it stopping the Baby Boom. Can you speak more on that?
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We don't need to, but it still makes a lot of sense to. Golden ages are freaking amazing, but they also eat up stats like crazy.
Megaprojects are also freaking amazing, but they eat up actions like crazy and eat a reasonable amount of stats as well.
We're currently on Megaproject Support, and so we might as well get as much out of it as we can. Especially since all the chaos going on means that we'll be taking repeated stability hits from immigrants which would prevent the Golden Age from triggering.
It's a continuation of LoO/CA. We tell people how awesome we are, they come to see, and everyone benefits... but we benefit from all of them, they only benefit from us.
BungieONI
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Long term tech advancement I think was the goal. People come and share knowledge, get some of ours, and we end up richer for the deal. That's the idea anyway.
The cognitive dissonance you are experiencing I think comes from the fact that the thread actually went for something long term that wasn't land or farming related.
Personally though I'm not really the right person to talk about this.