Not a distance issue, but a size/population issue.
I don't see why it matters. They likely have a population a fifth our size, and the strain in population increase is taken up by our multi-tier hierarchy, meaning that the experienced strain on our overall government is minimal.

We didn't gain any techs from taking the Forest, Canal, or Temple slow. We seem to gain more choices, we have a larger influence on exactly what it looks like and how it affects our culture, but we don't gain tech.
Forest gave us the mill and black soil because we took it slow, did it not?

Canal... mm, well, it gave us bluestone unless that was a survey, but I guess otherwise no. idr

We rushed the rest of the temple.

I think that if it affects our culture and the view of us through appearance we 1000% need to take the Palace slow. In case there are tech dev benefits, the Palace is the most likely megaproject of the two to give them.

The Dam needs to be taken slow for at least 2 turns as we lay its foundations and experiment with hydrology, but after this is established can be sped up, unless we want to decorate it or whatever.
 
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And if too much water is diverted, you could wind up seeing a lot of sinkholes and the like.
Now that I thought about it some more you also have to be careful because at the right composition and grain size coal can re-ignite due to the heat of absorption as it dries.

Still think it's doable, but it would have to be a permanently diverted stream I think. Just in case.
 
I do find the idea of tech as the 'ideal souvenir' kind of absurd. Seriously, if it were me I'd set up a business selling miniature wooden idols of our naked harvest goddess with crow perched on her to everyone in Valleyhome pretty much as soon as the general idea for the Temple was finalized.

Seriously, I know what kind of souvenirs the pilgrims will buy. Porn by preference, and something tacky but cool-looking like a Crow idol if their wife won't let them get porn.

My guess is the Highland Kingdom will be flooded with 'Black Eagle' and 'Macra' idols soonish too.
 
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Ok, with the current choices that are winning, we'll have the following stats before we make our action choices next turn - note I'm presuming the Hero is dead by next turn or that we'll at least have action control:

5[+4] Diplomacy
2[-1] Econ
4{5} Martial
8 Econ Expansion (assuming True City procs for the econ we're sending the MWs)

7 or 10 Art (too close to call currently)
7 Mysticism

Now we don't know at this time how many Library actions we've even taken (probably 3 according to @Abby Normal 's calculation), much less how many more we'll need to complete it (4 to 6 is the total), and thus no idea how many actions the provinces will spend on Megaprojects next turn. But for simplicity I'm going to assume that they do 3 main megaproject support actions next turn. Without considering our own actions, that would leave us during the next midturn at:

5+4 (Bonuses paying out) = 9 Diplo
2 -1 (True City) - 2 (Library costs 2 total Econ, it doesn't seem from @Abby Normal 's calculation that this has been factored in yet) +4 (baby boom) = 3 Econ. Most important thing to note here - if True City and Library costs come BEFORE baby boom, we go to negative econ for a bit. That's rather concerning, but not much we can do about it given the current vote.
4{5} Martial
8 -4 (baby boom) = 4 Econ Expansion
7 or 10 -3 = 4 or 7 Art
7-3 = 4 Mysticism.

Getting rather low on Econ, Econ slots, and Martial considering we're probably heading into a war with the Nomads. These therefore should be our main focus. We're too low on Econ to do ANY actions that cost Econ, in my opinion. Too much of a chance to dip into negative Econ if costs come before Baby boom. That rules out most actions that add Martial, but we have 3 Mysticism to spare before the lack of Mysticism changes anything the provinces do, so Secondary Carrion Eaters and/or Secondary Blackbirds are very possible.

So if the nomads are bearing down on us and we need to go all out on a war mission, my thought is we should do:
[Main] War Mission
[Secondary] More Carrion Eaters
[Secondary] More Blackbirds

If the nomads seem to be easily dealt with by the ST and we only need a secondary war mission, I would go for:
[Main] Black Soil
[Secondary] War Mission
[Secondary] More Carrion Eaters (which seem to be better in a nomad war on the plains than Blackbirds)

If no War Mission at all is needed, the nomads are attacking far away or are procrastinating mightily, instead:
[Main] Black Soil
[Secondary] More Carrion Eaters
[Secondary] More Blackbirds

Why Black Soil in these last two options? Well Forests and Boats cost Econ in the short term, and I'm not voting for things that cost Econ. To generate Econ then, we're limited to Black Soil, New Settlements, and Expand Econ.

The problem with Expand Econ is that we're also going to be getting low on Econ slots, and Expanding Econ here could potentially end our Baby boom now or in the near future.

The problem with New Settlements is that it takes time for their Econ to pay out, we could use Econ quicker than that to avoid a temporary negative Econ, and finally the New Settlement locations could be hit by nomads (Blackriver and Eastern Hills), so that seems like a bad idea.

Black Soil, as a main, costs no Econ and provides an immediate +1 Econ, at no cost in Econ slots. I am in fact quite hopeful that it will increase our Econ slots - we honestly have no idea if it does, the last time we took it was when we were doing the Sacred Forest megaproject, ie well before we had Econ slot information. But narratively it would make sense to me that more black soil would lead to more marginal farming areas being able to farm more.
Two to three more actions.
^ we can finish it next turn if we leave the policy as is.
 
So, I've been thinking:

You know how the TH merged with the Xoh to form the Xohyssirian Empire? While I still believe we won't be conquered militarily (much less sure now - any conflict between us will be bloody) another merge may be in the cards especially of our budding pantheon gains cultural dominance in this area.
 
So, I've been thinking:

You know how the TH merged with the Xoh to form the Xohyssirian Empire? While I still believe we won't be conquered militarily (much less sure now - any conflict between us will be bloody) another merge may be in the cards especially of our budding pantheon gains cultural dominance in this area.
The HK tried it on us and probably will keep trying in the future.
 
A lot depends on where the brewing horde attacks. Allegedly they're after revenge, which means they should go after us, but unless they've come up with some superweapon to negate our advantages I don't expect more than a casual effort before they steer east of us.

How far east they go is the big question as I see it. If they just steer around us on their way south they'll hit the Highland Kingdom, but they're nearly as tough a but to crack as we are. More likely they'll steer further east and hit the Thunder Speakers as promised, in which case the Xohyssirian Empire may be distracted long enough for the Highland Kingdom to make serious gains.

I'm not really at all sure how strong the Xohyssirian Empire is right now in a military sense, but a big loss on their part could certainly split off the Swamp People again.
 
Really curious to see if we can finally get the HK to swerve to our religion wholesale here. Fythhagyna can easily eclipse and cover Macra's portfolio, and the Black Eagle is obviously already tied to Crow, and the whole 'alien unknowable badass' thing what with six eyes and having the epithet 'Demon god' is probably appealing to a heavily militarized society like the HK's.

Us, the Highlands Kingdom, the Zohyssirian Empire - everyone. Though for this to be possible there has to be a conversion in the Xoh to "these newer, nicer gods".

It's a long shot but it would be better than outright war.
I'd honestly drop the quest if that happened. Because it's just that unrealistic.

I can understand vassalage, I can understand a degree of cultural assimilation. But what you're asking for is the ancient equivalent of dropping our weapons, holding hands, and singing 'kumbaya' in the name of world peace.
 
Pilgrims in my mind are people like chiefs, their retinues, high shamans, and then the normal people who are rich enough to afford the trip of their own desire. That seems like a really stark difference.
In summary, people smart enough not to give away technology.

These are pilgrims. Not people moving to our civ. They are transitory.
 
I don't think we can religiously assimilate the Xoh right now...they're a bit too solid. If the TS and Xoh have a religious split later on we can try to take advantage of that.

The HK however are prime material as they don't have a prominent religion (compared to ours or the Xoh) and they have the most access out of the lowland polities.
 
Trying to determine how useful integrating the ST would be.

@Academia Nut
Is there some way we could get a rough idea on the difference in action-power between us and our periphery states?
Will we be experiencing significant efficiency losses from doing War Missions in the Stallion Tribe territory that would be eliminated by integrating them?
 
I'd honestly drop the quest if that happened. Because it's just that unrealistic.

I can understand vassalage, I can understand a degree of cultural assimilation. But what you're asking for is the ancient equivalent of dropping our weapons, holding hands, and singing 'kumbaya' in the name of world peace.
Could depend on outside pressures. If a large enough external threat appeared and menaced the entire region, or perhaps a natural disaster that we're uniquely prepared for...even then, yeah it's a long shot.
 
If our holy site does become a major place of pilgrimage wouldn't that mean that large groups of people from outside our population will be coming in and observing all of the cultivated lands and forests on their way to the temple? That they would be exposed to just how much better things are in Ymaryn lands than in other places?

What effect would that have? No other society is as capable of feeding their populace as we are. We are the "Land of Plenty".

Now I don't want to get into baseless speculation, but could it be possible that by increasing the amount of pilgrims we get and by exporting our culture it could become easier to absorb refugees and convince villages to switch sides? Could it even make it so that the stability hits are lowered?

I say this because we get stability hits when refugees flee to us because we have to integrate them into a new society and our people become restless as strangers move in. But with constant pilgrims our population would become more used to outsiders and those same outsiders would have a much better idea of how to become one with our society. And when we go around to villages trying to convince them to join use they wouldn't be making a leap of faith, constant pilgrimes to our lands would mean those same villages would know just what joining us would mean.

I guess what I'm wondering here is if by exporting our culture will we make our schick of being economy vampires easier?
 
In summary, people smart enough not to give away technology.
I think there's a real cultural disconnect here in that the only groups that MAY have the kind of awareness of market forces to be wary about sharing 'tech' right now are the Ymaryn with their proto-guilds and the Xohssyrians with their trade center status.

For most people, ask 'Do they PERSONALLY make money off this tech?' If not, it's very IC for a chieftain to brag about the cleverness of his weavers or the skill of his metalworkers and not think twice about it. The cleverness is added prestige for whatever gift he brings, and so he can expect better good luck in return from the gods- the incentive for the leader is to share.

Most leaders aren't going to know that allowing us to produce their stuff is a problem, or understand a problem for their artisans is also their problem.
 
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I'd honestly drop the quest if that happened. Because it's just that unrealistic.

I can understand vassalage, I can understand a degree of cultural assimilation. But what you're asking for is the ancient equivalent of dropping our weapons, holding hands, and singing 'kumbaya' in the name of world peace.

No. It's not that unrealistic. Things change and will continue to change.

Give it a couple thousand years (read a handful of updates).
 
No. It's not that unrealistic. Things change and will continue.

Give it a couple thousand years (read a handful of updates).
It doesn't even need to be the nations deciding en masse that our religion is better and they want to sign up. It can simply be droves of their people individually making that decision and pumping our Econ as far as Stability will take it.
 
I do find the idea of tech as the 'ideal souvenir' kind of absurd. Seriously, if it were me I'd set up a business selling miniature wooden idols of our naked harvest goddess with crow perched on her to everyone in Valleyhome pretty much as soon as the general idea for the Temple was finalized.

Seriously, I know what kind of souvenirs the pilgrims will buy. Porn by preference, and something tacky but cool-looking like a Crow idol if their wife won't let them get porn.

My guess is the Highland Kingdom will be flooded with 'Black Eagle' and 'Macra' idols soonish too.
Things we could sell:
-Common
--Pottery figurines
--Calfskin clothing
--Carved wood figurines
--Carved wood or stone talismans which just contain a short excerpt from the records...that nobody can read.

-Uncommon
--Wine
--Honey
--Salted fish or meats
--Honeyed fish or meats
--Harmony weeds
--Ceremonial copper tools
--Lead figurines

-Rare
--Silver figurines
--Gold figurines
--Ceremonial Iron tools(runed and everything like the Star Axe) at a ridiculous markup

So, I've been thinking:

You know how the TH merged with the Xoh to form the Xohyssirian Empire? While I still believe we won't be conquered militarily (much less sure now - any conflict between us will be bloody) another merge may be in the cards especially of our budding pantheon gains cultural dominance in this area.
Naw, too different.
The Xoh were vassalized first, then simply rolled over and got on top.
 
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It doesn't even need to be the nations deciding en masse that our religion is better and they want to sign up. It can simply be droves of their people individually making that decision and pumping our Econ as far as Stability will take it.

Yep, my thoughts on the matter. Baby steps.

1k years is like ... 50 updates. I could believe that it would take 50 updates to assimilate the HK, XS, & TS. Especially if we keep outcompeting others for trade goods.

I think it's less than that. But still, it's within the lifetime of this Quest - after all, where we are now is very different than how we began.
 
It doesn't even need to be the nations deciding en masse that our religion is better and they want to sign up. It can simply be droves of their people individually making that decision and pumping our Econ as far as Stability will take it.

They can make a version of our faith locally and assume control over it, then demand us to convert. Religion is like that, the original are weaker against rip-offs.
 
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