Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Wait, so you're saying "we've never had any problems from the two previous Marches and there's no indication that the third will do anything bad, but we should totally treat it as the same as something we've always known would be bad"?
Yeah, you're making this up as you go. We've had no problems from the Marches RE: women, and we don't care if they go out and kill nearby nomads.
- Location
- Illinois
See, this is why we need toGuys the trees are screaming, don't you want to save the trees?
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Presumably, everyone who could witness and/or hear the speech was also high out of their minds, so....
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
Hmm, well not very contentious this time it seems:
[] [CA] Accept those who come to the People (Chance of Stability loss, +2 Econ)
Try to geet the Golden Age early.
Econ will be 13 with Expansion at 2
[] [CA] Encourage people to flee the conflicts (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
The halfway point which satisfies nobody and gains nothing.
Econ will be 15-16, causing 2 points of overflow into Mysticism 14 if we don't spend it.
Expansion will be 0 or -1, risking overcrowding.
[] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
Makes a dirt cheap grab for territory. The Hathatyn is one of our most valuable directions of expansion, being coastal, metal-producing and not next to nomads.
Econ will be 19-21, causing 2 points of overflow into Mysticism, 2 points of overflow into Diplomacy(becausse of the cost here) and 1-3 points of overflow into Martial if we don't spend 3 points somehow.
Econ slots will be 0 to -2, risking overcrowding if we don't spend some Econ for True City to convert back.
[] [Law] Have the law favour splitting
Increases guild electoral power. It's very easy to define new trades, which helps spur innovation, but will result in byzantine politics as trading votes will become a major thing.
This will catch on fire in the mid term, but that also gives us a chance to reform it later at Stability costs.
[] [Law] Have the law favour lumping
Remember the guilds people were against? These mega guilds won't have as many votes, but they WILL discourage innovation and resist change to preserve their current leadership.
Simplest to implement, worst long term.
[] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
More risky in that it'd take an Admin and Diplomacy roll to make this work...oh look, we have a Heroic Administrator. Any OTHER time this would be bad, but a Hero is ideal for dealing with this properly without fucking it up.
[] [Law] Leave things be
Let the situation brew for now and see what happens...well people would be upset, but unlike Lumping/Splitting it won't set bad practices in stone.
[] [Boats] Speed
Best for ocean warfare, best for maintaining connectivity over long distances.
If we grab the Hathatyn unopposed along the coast, this will be the best for avoiding cultural drift.
[] [Boats] Size
Best for ocean exploration, best for coastal trade(as in dramatically better, since we'd approach true ships). Larger ships can go further out to sea more safely without shore hugging
This is normally the best except for the current specific situation.
[] [Boats] Portability
Best for rivers, meaning best for landgrabs, raiding, Steppe/valley exploration and internal trade. If there is a possible Hathatyn war, this will be the most valuable, because their civilization lies along a river network.
[] [Infra] Main Salt Gift
Stats are maxed, so this just spawns prestige and potentially creates a LARGE Martial overflow from the return values overflowing.
[] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
Eats up 4 Econ, which prevents us from overflowing into Martial and also prevents overcrowding from the generated Economy slot.
[] [Infra] Main Vineyard
Overflow into martial for sure.
[] [Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
Overflow into Martial, with additional effects.
[] [Infra] Main Expand Economy
We don't even HAVE the slots!
So my vote:
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
[] [CA] Accept those who come to the People (Chance of Stability loss, +2 Econ)
Try to geet the Golden Age early.
Econ will be 13 with Expansion at 2
[] [CA] Encourage people to flee the conflicts (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
The halfway point which satisfies nobody and gains nothing.
Econ will be 15-16, causing 2 points of overflow into Mysticism 14 if we don't spend it.
Expansion will be 0 or -1, risking overcrowding.
[] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
Makes a dirt cheap grab for territory. The Hathatyn is one of our most valuable directions of expansion, being coastal, metal-producing and not next to nomads.
Econ will be 19-21, causing 2 points of overflow into Mysticism, 2 points of overflow into Diplomacy(becausse of the cost here) and 1-3 points of overflow into Martial if we don't spend 3 points somehow.
Econ slots will be 0 to -2, risking overcrowding if we don't spend some Econ for True City to convert back.
[] [Law] Have the law favour splitting
Increases guild electoral power. It's very easy to define new trades, which helps spur innovation, but will result in byzantine politics as trading votes will become a major thing.
This will catch on fire in the mid term, but that also gives us a chance to reform it later at Stability costs.
[] [Law] Have the law favour lumping
Remember the guilds people were against? These mega guilds won't have as many votes, but they WILL discourage innovation and resist change to preserve their current leadership.
Simplest to implement, worst long term.
[] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
More risky in that it'd take an Admin and Diplomacy roll to make this work...oh look, we have a Heroic Administrator. Any OTHER time this would be bad, but a Hero is ideal for dealing with this properly without fucking it up.
[] [Law] Leave things be
Let the situation brew for now and see what happens...well people would be upset, but unlike Lumping/Splitting it won't set bad practices in stone.
[] [Boats] Speed
Best for ocean warfare, best for maintaining connectivity over long distances.
If we grab the Hathatyn unopposed along the coast, this will be the best for avoiding cultural drift.
[] [Boats] Size
Best for ocean exploration, best for coastal trade(as in dramatically better, since we'd approach true ships). Larger ships can go further out to sea more safely without shore hugging
This is normally the best except for the current specific situation.
[] [Boats] Portability
Best for rivers, meaning best for landgrabs, raiding, Steppe/valley exploration and internal trade. If there is a possible Hathatyn war, this will be the most valuable, because their civilization lies along a river network.
[] [Infra] Main Salt Gift
Stats are maxed, so this just spawns prestige and potentially creates a LARGE Martial overflow from the return values overflowing.
[] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
Eats up 4 Econ, which prevents us from overflowing into Martial and also prevents overcrowding from the generated Economy slot.
[] [Infra] Main Vineyard
Overflow into martial for sure.
[] [Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
Overflow into Martial, with additional effects.
[] [Infra] Main Expand Economy
We don't even HAVE the slots!
So my vote:
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
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What is the current status of the steppe nomads? I know they've been attacking/raiding us for a loooooong time; is that still going on, or are they busy with their own stuff?
Just thinking that we do have the Rage Against the Steppes Legacy...
Just thinking that we do have the Rage Against the Steppes Legacy...
- Location
- Australia
Hrm....considering you were the first IIRC to figure out the complexity of the Forest Scrounge, I'd take your word for it, even if the volcano is another real possibility. And helping the disparate Hathatyn villages from that is just a good bonus.
So now the question would be, should we find out that this is indeed the case, do you think we should devote a good deal of resources to the Hathatyn as a whole to prop them up?
- Location
- Illinois
The drought almost made them attack again, or at least the marches would have had to cull them again, but we bounced back so quickly that they took one look at us and went 'nope.'
Wait. You're right! If the volcano had had even a small explosion, not only would it have spread large amounts of burning material across the very dry region*, it would also have seeded the air. So you have a wildfire that springs up everywhere, a sudden torrential rain that starts the debris flows, the river getting jammed and flooding, and then even more mudslides.
Crickey! If only they had proper water management...
*Even small eruptions can send burning pumice over 25km (15 miles) away.
@Academia Nut Revised theory!
- Location
- Illinois
That was less a march thing and more the fact that their leader really, really disliked her. There was a bit of sexism, of course, but our core territories are picking that up as well, so blaming that on the march is incorrect.
AN said that the process was fairly natural, and there wasn't a way to really stop it. The ST had it more due to them having a heavy nomad population at their core, but as long as we take in refugees, that was inevitable.
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Well, the real problem is that disasters don't add, they multiply. Exponentially.
God no, we should be doing everything we can to move them! Their land is fertile sure, but if the volcano is going active, then they're living downwind of a toxic gas factory. And a fire factory. Very important to remember the fire.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
For now; Speed is still better for trade and communications.
If we really want to engage in a land war then size might help us land more soldiers at once... but in that case portability far outweighs the benefits because landing is easier and we can fire from in the middle of the river.
Debilitating Belief Gained: Bronze On Fire
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
Although @Academia Nut what are our hero's other stats (Mysticism, Martial) ?
Downsides:
- Regional devastation
- Mass migration
- Civilizational regression or collapse
- Pozzolanic cement!
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Note that better river boats would help with transportation to and from the MW.
Also, y'all might want to consider whether or not we'd be able to establish a March or Colony of other Periphery State in the Hathatya or whatever it's called.
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] [Law] Have the law favour splitting
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
Anyone else notice that the new heir essentially just ended a riot by turning the city into a giant hotbox
Either way, I hope the heroic admin king will fix whatever fuckups the voters make.
I interpret portability to be literally how easy it is to physically pick up a boat and move it over land to another body of water. Like how the Greeks pushed their ships over the Ithmus of Corinth or how Vikings used to carry their longboats from one river to the other.
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
Anyone else notice that the new heir essentially just ended a riot by turning the city into a giant hotbox
Either way, I hope the heroic admin king will fix whatever fuckups the voters make.
I interpret portability to be literally how easy it is to physically pick up a boat and move it over land to another body of water. Like how the Greeks pushed their ships over the Ithmus of Corinth or how Vikings used to carry their longboats from one river to the other.
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Portability
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
BungieONI
Seven gremlins in a trench coat
- Location
- Lickwidget
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Oh a tally for you~
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 1869 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: CA
[50][CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[8][CA] Accept those who come to the People (Chance of Stability loss, +2 Econ)
[1][CA] Encourage people to flee the conflicts (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[1][CA] CLEAR
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Boats
[31][Boats] Size
[15][Boats] Portability
[14][Boats] Speed
[2][Boats] Keep working with current designs (+1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Infra
[44][Infra] Main Saltern Construction
[9][Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
[3][Infra] Main Salt Gift
[2][Infra] Main Snail Cultivation
[1][Infra] Main Expand Economy
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Law
[27][Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[13][Law] Have the law favour lumping
[9][Law] Have the law favour splitting
[2][Law] Leave things be
[1][Law] Attempt to close off both practices[/QUOTE]
[1][Law] Geographic Administration
Total No. of Voters: 65
Vote Tally : Original - Paths of Civilization | Page 1869 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.9.1
Task: CA
[50][CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[8][CA] Accept those who come to the People (Chance of Stability loss, +2 Econ)
[1][CA] Encourage people to flee the conflicts (-1 Stability, chance of further loss, +4-5 Econ)
[1][CA] CLEAR
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Boats
[31][Boats] Size
[15][Boats] Portability
[14][Boats] Speed
[2][Boats] Keep working with current designs (+1 Econ, +1 Econ Expansion)
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Infra
[44][Infra] Main Saltern Construction
[9][Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
[3][Infra] Main Salt Gift
[2][Infra] Main Snail Cultivation
[1][Infra] Main Expand Economy
——————————————————————————————————————————————Task: Law
[27][Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[13][Law] Have the law favour lumping
[9][Law] Have the law favour splitting
[2][Law] Leave things be
[1][Law] Attempt to close off both practices[/QUOTE]
[1][Law] Geographic Administration
Total No. of Voters: 65
Hmmm... In my case no. I actually genuinely want to help them un fuck themselves and I figure a full move in is necessary to do that. War would suck but if it happens we need to end it quick.
- Location
- Illinois
Probably, but traditional elven arrogance has worked out well for us so far.
- Location
- Hell
Considering that it would be partially bone and perfect for preserving bodies that are buried deeply enough, let's not mention this particular development to the Xoh, eh? Wouldn't want our creepy taxidermist neighbors to start getting ideas on how to improve their walls...