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Paths of Civilization

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DragonParadox said:
Er.. what? The Hath are territoriality larger than us. They are just breaking apart from their own mismanagement.
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We have too much we need to burn, we have iron-weapons when the best others have is bronze and our potential enemy is basically burning down to the bedrock.

We kinda have the cards here. The only part that scares me is that we have never done offensive sieges to my reckoning - but that just means we will learn it now and be enriched by the experience.
 
Well... Let's be real. We just got the admin hero. It takes a turn consistently at stability three to enter a Golden Age- we can't count on having that right away next turn, or at all.

We do NEED to bleed off our excess Martial- if we don't do that via war with the Hathacyn, we're going to have to do that via something like 'Found March' in the upcoming turn most likely. Fortunately, we've probably got the Prestige for that and Marches are great for helping us keep our stability up while engaging in war.

I'd like to just pass on this, gamble we can use that Martial next turn somehow, and hope to get that Golden Age before something that pushes us out of that position comes up. There are probably some other nice options coming up if we can manage to enter a Golden Age with an Admin/Diplo as king- if we knock our stability down now, even if we raise it up next turn he might be too old to preside over the upcoming Golden Age or we may miss it altogether.
 
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pbluekan said:
Just so you guys know, this is the most complex of the options. This is the hardest and least likely to work, and will most likely cause problems, as per AN.
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We have an admin hero and aren't aiming to go for a Golden Age. Now's a great time to cause admin stresses and the resulting innovations, and it's the best long-term according to our advisors.

If we were doing my original vote then yeah, lumping is better since it's safer. When we're going all war-like land-grabby? Might as well get the long-term advancement.
Dieb said:
See my post above about overflow, but I still have to ask you: WHY is overflow into Martial needed? We're at 10 {14} right now, next turn we'll be at 10{15} no matter which thing we build. We have iron, we have the best chariots around, our navy has kicked their navy in the pants 2 or 3 times now, and they are on fire (even if not dead according to AN). What do we have to fear from them?
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Because they are a lot more than we've fought. We've dealt with raiders who left them and a tiny bit of pressure from them seeing if we're vulnerable. We haven't actually fought their real army/navy at all.

They're about as large as we are. If we take them down, we almost double our territory. That's a lot of provinces dropping centralization like a rock, which in turn we need to Trails and Enforce Justice to get out of. And we'll need lots of soldiers to do that.
 
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drake_azathoth said:
Well... Let's be real. We just got the admin hero. It takes a turn consistently at stability three to enter a Golden Age- we can't count on having that right away next turn, or at all.

We do NEED to bleed off our excess Martial- if we don't do that via war with the Hathacyn, we're going to have to do that via something like 'Found March' in the upcoming turn most likely. Fortunately, we've probably got the Prestige for that and Marches are great for helping us keep our stability up while engaging in war.

I'd like to just pass on this, gamble we can use that Martial next turn somehow, and hope to get that Golden Age before something that pushes us out of that position comes up. There are probably some other nice options coming up if we can manage to enter a Golden Age with an Admin/Diplo as king- if we knock our stability down now, even if we raise it up another turn he might be too old to preside over the upcoming Golden Age or miss it altogether.
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Territorial expansion and killing the Hath through draining their econ is more useful long term than a small synergy with the Golden Age.
 
notgreat said:
We have an admin hero and aren't aiming to go for a Golden Age. Now's a great time to cause admin stresses and the resulting innovations, and it's the best long-term according to our advisors.

If we were doing my original vote then yeah, lumping is better since it's safer. When we're going all war-like land-grabby? Might as well get the long-term advancement.

Because they are a lot more than we've fought. We've dealt with raiders who left them and a tiny bit of pressure from them seeing if we're vulnerable. We haven't actually fought their real army/navy at all.

They're about as large as we are. If we take them down, we almost double our territory. That's a lot of provinces dropping centralization like a rock, which in turn we need to Trails and Enforce Justice to get out of. And we'll need lots of soldiers to do that.
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It's more that we are going to annex their richer lands in the mouth of their river, the ones along the coasts are bordering us and getting tired of their kings shit.

Basically we are only taking the northern third and richest (fertility and trade and resources wise) of their territory and letting the rest collapse into anarchy and successor states
 
[X] [CA] Accept those who come to the People (Chance of Stability loss, +2 Econ)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Expand Snail Cultivation
 
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Have the law favour lumping
[X] [Boats] Speed
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
 
notgreat said:
We have an admin hero and aren't aiming to go for a Golden Age. Now's a great time to cause admin stresses and the resulting innovations, and it's the best long-term according to our advisors.

If we were doing my original vote then yeah, lumping is better since it's safer. When we're going all war-like land-grabby? Might as well get the long-term advancement.

Because they are a lot more than we've fought. We've dealt with raiders who left them and a tiny bit of pressure from them seeing if we're vulnerable. We haven't actually fought their real army/navy at all.

They're about as large as we are. If we take them down, we almost double our territory. That's a lot of provinces dropping centralization like a rock, which in turn we need to Trails and Enforce Justice to get out of. And we'll need lots of soldiers to do that.
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Honestly? The Nomad Waaagh was way worse. Two martial heroes, fighting on the plains, before we had iron, with a lower Martial score then we'll have next turn. I'm just not afraid of the Hath right now.

And I doubt we'll conquer their whole territory very quickly - the only way we do THAT is if...our martial is already more then good enough to win.

More martial doesn't help with Trails. More martial doesn't help with Enforce Justice. So why get more martial?
 
McLuvin said:
It's more that we are going to annex their richer lands in the mouth of their river, the ones along the coasts are bordering us and getting tired of their kings shit.

Basically we are only taking the northern third and richest (fertility and trade and resources wise) of their territory and letting the rest collapse into anarchy and successor states
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Why?

2 provinces = 1 action. The more land we take, the more we can do. It comes with associated problems, yes, but we can deal with them thanks to our excessively high stats in everything.

Dieb said:
And I doubt we'll conquer their whole territory very quickly - the only way we do THAT is if...our martial is already more then good enough to win.

More martial doesn't help with Trails. More martial doesn't help with Enforce Justice. So why get more martial?
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First point: It'll take several actions, yes. Actions that are definitely worthwhile.

Second point: Actually Martial does help with Enforce Justice. It's a dual Admin/Martial roll unless everything is going well, in which case it's pure Admin.
Academia Nut said:
2.) Admin or Admin+Martial, depending on how things have developed.
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notgreat said:
Why?

2 provinces = 1 action. The more land we take, the more we can do. It comes with associated problems, yes, but we can deal with them thanks to our excessively high stats in everything.


First point: It'll take several actions, yes. Actions that are definitely worthwhile.

Second point: Actually Martial does help with Enforce Justice. It's a dual Admin/Martial roll unless everything is going well, in which case it's pure Admin.
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I don't think our Martial score helps with the Martial roll during a turn, although I'm willing to be corrected by AN. It's more like if we have a hero that's low in his/her martial score, which note our current heir might be. @Academia Nut ?
 
notgreat said:
Why
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Because the rest of the kingdom didn't invite us in, we are only allowed to make this move because the costal lands bordering us want to be annexed, the Ymaryn do not conquer, unless the Hathatyn decide to fight back extra hard, it is unlikely we will push forward into the territories south that didn't ask to be annexed
 
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Portability

We know they have river pirates. Why not go in full prepared? Also, this is more likely to assist communication problems, not speed. This improves boats in all our rivers, including the ones to the Marches and our central rivers.
 
Academia Nut said:
Some suspected that perhaps what forests they had had been stressed by the drought the prior generation, but the People honestly didn't have enough to go on to be able to figure out what might be wrong, but in any case it sounded like at least one tributary city was just straight up gone
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Reading a bit closer, wow, looks like the forests decided to help us conqueror the Hathatyn.

We shall remember your sacrifice, noble trees!
 
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[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Have the law favour splitting
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
 
Dieb said:
If you read what he wrote, it's the most likely to cause SHORT TERM problems, but the least likely to cause problems overall. With a Heroic Admin and Diplo heir, I'm willing to take a chance in the short term.
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I don't wanna wind up with the in-universe voting gamed all to hell 100 years down the line.
 
[X] [CA] Attempt to take control of adjacent villages (-2 Stability, chance of further loss, -2 Diplomacy, unknowable chance of war with the Hathatyn, +8-10 Econ, +4 Econ Expansion)
[X] [Law] Attempt to close off both practices
[X] [Boats] Size
[X] [Infra] Main Saltern Construction
 
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