- Location
- Mists of Albion
And Wine!
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
You're forgetting all the other ancient traditions. We basically have no analogue for the path of philosophy we're taking.
- Location
- Germany
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I thought we are the Phoenicians.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
No way have we predicted the last dozen great comets. That's impossible.
- Location
- Australia
The Greeks were massive assholes. The Ymaryn are not assholes. The Greeks had asshole gods. The Ymaryn's gods are nice. We are indeed not Greece.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Is there a citation for this? I thought it was just more wild speculation that everyone's treating as fact
It's worth mentioning that we have rushed exactly one megaproject, and got huge benefits from rushing it. And it's never had a failure large enough to warrant a mention in an update, in spite of requiring extensive underwater walls in salt water.
In many ways it's speculation, but the speculation is both well founded and notably does not apply to every megaproject.
The thing that makes this current megaproject special is that we're, well as far as I can tell we're basically founding an actual religion, rather than several individual practices that are based on how the locals are working. Rushing it would certainly make this done differently, and quite likely to a detriment, though we'd still get something amazing. Remember, we do have to still guess at how things work beyond the numbers.
A vague guess as to the benefits of not rushing for various megaprojects would be:
- The Games- The entire thing about this is setting up organizational skills to run something like the Olympics. Doing it slow will allow us to notice the flaws with greater ease. Likely to benefit from spacing it out, but not definitively.
- Grand Palace- This is most likely a complete rework of our government, maybe even going so far as to advance it an entire age. Going slow will help us more safely iron out any problems, so it will likely have immense benefits to take this as slow as possible.
- Great Dam- Dam failures are a thing, and making sure it can stand up to the test of time might mean taking it somewhat slow. We're exceptionally good at these things, though, so taking it super slow won't be of major benefit, and one could argue that making it fast would limit the catastrophes we cause making it. We might want to take it slow until we discover some basic techniques for making it better, but rushing shouldn't hurt, so the benefit won't be that immense to take this slow, if it exists at all.
- The Library- Rushing may make this unorganized and the stories not very well kept, but that's mostly looking for a problem rather than truly acknowledging one. Stories change so often now that such an event won't truly matter anyways, that's the entire point of the Library. It's unlikely we will gain a major advantage by doing it slowly (Unless doing it fast causes us to drop so fast in art and mysticism that a golden age we are in crashes, do they work like that? Did we ever find out what the other condition to ending a golden age was?)
- The Mountain- No major gains will be done by doing this slowly. It's basically an engineering experiment.
- Place to the Stars- We want a good understanding of the stars in order to make this strong. Having a strong Study Stars chain should make this much more powerful, so as long as we have and maintain one, rushing should be just as strong as doing it slowly.
Anyways, I've been meaning to ask @Academia Nut When our marches both take a war mission towards the same target, do they gain the symphony bonus for working together?
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
I'll agree that it's plausible on some megaprojects. But a lot of plausible theories have turned out to be false in this quest, so we can't treat them as fact unless confirmed.
On which note:
@Academia Nut Are there penalties for rushing megaprojects?
On which note:
@Academia Nut Are there penalties for rushing megaprojects?
Spirit Talkers had predicted every single Great Comet which happened during their lifespan.
According to Academia Nut, the Spirit Talkers were older than us, and had been taking Study Stars every turn without fail to keep up with their Mysticism expenses to keep up with their Martial expenses.
They had been trying to Study Stars their way out of an unspecified "Farming problem", which we now suspect to be a superstition that they were unwilling to spend Stability on.
Well examples:
-Rushing Grand Temple meant that all the religious strife of sorting out the religion happens at once. So:
--Location. Politicking for the Temple site had been somewhat agitated. We avoided any trouble from this by picking an already spiritually significant location, but a Stability roll was implied if we had any major dissension or if we had put it into Valleyhome.
--Chief Idol. Our shamans got into brawls over this, enough that the King had to send warriors to break up brawling shamans long enough to get them to agree on something. There was a possible Stability hit here, but we rolled well, so people were more confused than anything.
--Depictions. Our shamans got into MORE brawls over this.
Suffice to say that rushing the temple could very well lead to a religious schism we would have to work through, leading to less diversity of choices(mechanically, the 8 questions we were asked over the shrine construction period would have been compressed into likely 2 questions with Stability hit risks as shamans factionalized)
So, going through our megaproject listings:
-Saltern - Minor consequences from rushing. We missed some innovation rolls we could have gotten if we took it more slowly as people might figure out pumps, mortars and the like over the process, but nothing BAD.
-Garden - Same as Saltern. We missed some advances like waterproof mortars and pumps, but overall we made it work via bloodymindedness.
-The Games - Category here falls under Saltern. While a big centralized festival has a lot of logistics needs, we already have most of those, so rushing this might mostly lead to less initial diversity in the games involved in favor of more simplistic contests.
-Grand Palace - Rushing here is rushing governmental reform, as we'd need to reconfigure our entire administration to account for it's facilities, who gets access, who gets to live in it, whether the King's extended family should move in, what records should be stored, what layouts are better, etc. We've already seen what happens with taking government reform too quickly, so it's best done the slow way.
-Great Dam - Rushing this works fine...once we sit it long enough to get the innovations we need to make it safe: Foundations, Mortar, Tiling(i.e. stacking blocks with an offset for construction strength vs pressure). Three turns on slow and then switching to fast should do it.
-The Library - It's gathering knowledge from across the country to consolidate. We can expect some of this to be resolved due to the Great Temple, since we'd have a center of religion to define What Is Truth, but rushing it probably means less rigor over what CONTENT makes it in because of the sheer number of scribes with less oversight being practical.
-The Mountain - Pure engineering/logistics project. Rush it, all you get is missing out on some innovation rolls at worst.
-Place to the Stars - Assuming we kept up our Study Stars streak long enough, I don't see any problems with rushing it. Otherwise the measurements are liable to be off. Astronomical events go on a very long clock.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Comets often have periods of mulitple millenia. This is both impossible in the real world and the wildest of speculation in this one.
Yes it could. All of this could be. Which makes the rest of this post plausible speculation, not fact.
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- Location
- Panama City
.......he wasn't stating it as fact? This is all his speculation on what might happen?
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Sure. I thought he was still replying to me there. My bad.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
No, we did this with our canal and it's fine. You just add water to it along its length as appropriate. Realistically you can create multiple, small, reservoir dams along its length which will maintain pressure and provide sites for water to be added with minimal trouble, as well as distributing water at periods other than the aqueduct's end. It's not like aqueducts are necessarily closed, airless tubes, anyways.
If it makes you feel better the nomadic lifestyle is over the long term inferior, and modern greece had a fair degree of dislike for nomadic peoples, with the caveat that trading and pir was quite liked.
Why do you think there's "great comets" outside of those listed by AN?
@Academia Nut Are there great comets occurring other than those presented in the narrative? Do our people fear comets? How can negative feelings toward comets be reduced ( i.e. how can we fight cometphobia
). What type of stones will PttS be made out of and where can we build it?
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- Location
- Australia
AN said the Spirit Talkers were 5000 years old.
- Pronouns
- He/Him
They haven't quite reached from Not!Egypt yet.
Ehhh... less penalties and there might be missed opportunities, depending upon the megaproject.
Are there great comets occurring other than those presented in the narrative? Do our people fear comets? How can negative feelings toward comets be reduced ( i.e. how can we fight cometphobia
There are technically noticeable comets at some point once a turn, and they spook people, but nothing like the doom comet has shown up since. Also, the appearance of comets are usually only particularly disruptive when they align with some other significant issue that gets people really freaking out.
Also, locking in as
[X][Crow] Spider-Eyed
[X][Fyth] Fertility
[X][Main] Great Temple
[X][Secondary] Improve Annual Festival
[X][Secondary] Study Forests
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
Rushing a megaproject means compressing all the hardships involved in making it into a single turn, if those are social hardships the could combine nonlinearly.
Beyond that we dont often get more info than The People have.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Because earth gets a great comet once every 30 years or so in each hemisphere. I'm assuming similar patterns in this world.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Ok. This sounds like the 'social changes megaprojects' to me; basically bluefur's ideas.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
Edit: Did we even rush the GT? Or are you saying that these would have been greater issues had we?
Eh, Library will be fine if rushed, the scribes will sort through the content and purify it over time. Biggest issues are likely to be relatively inferior architecture, less nice storage, worse windows, etc.
Mountain is a bad-ish thing to rush. It's pure engineering which means we need enough time to sort it out and make sure appropriate stones are cut and placed correctly. Basically like the Dam, but we can sit on it for less turns if we've built the Dam beforehand, as they would seem to largely overlap.
PttS definitely needs a shitton of time. Regardless of how long we've done Study Stars we've probably been losing data. We also need time for the shamans who know the Stars best to cooperate with the artisans in order to maintain accuracy. Furthermore, doing it slowly means we can extend the Study Stars chain during its construction. And, frankly, the variety of benefits that PttS can provide means that we should drag it out as long as possible in order to develop higher math, navigation, etc. Better math is more important than better engineering.
So, the way that I'm interpreting this is that Not!Egypt is Dominant in the Cat luxury.
We should do a sailing mission to import cats ASAP. Though we might not want to ruin our native ecosystem with them...
Would doing PttS reduce the impact of minor and Doom Comets?
Oh, we're using "great comet" differently. I'm using "great comet" to mean "things that make people freak out" not "noticeably a comet rather than a shooting star."
Also, isn't it cool how shooting stars don't lead to our death due to our dense atmosphere?
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pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Great comets don't have an exact definition but it's something like 'brighter than venus' or 'a long visible tail'.
The brightness of the doom comet was described as brighter than venus, interestingly. Perhaps AN is using a weaker comet system than the real world.
Carrnage
Human
- Location
- New Zealand
And how our magnetosphere keeps the atmosphere from being leeched or highly irradiated.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
And how both of these allow plants to exist which creates the oxygen we need to operate at such high levels of caloric consumption.
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