VoidZero
Passing Flan 布丁魔王
- Location
- Anywhere but RL
Dude are you listening to yourself?
You are pushing for voters to vote one way and claim people should make up their own mind?
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
Dude are you listening to yourself?
You are pushing for voters to vote one way and claim people should make up their own mind?
You read that as an attack?
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Urist McDwarf approves
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You're making a pretty good case for the Dam here. That basically makes for extra nearly droughtproof farmland from chinampas, and the spectacular drought resistance capabilities of dams and reservoirs. It's also only a 5 action commitment if I remember.
Ya, we need more roads asap, but we have a lot of other stuff to do as well.
Why? What possible purpose would that fill other than to drag us into a huge war with the Thunder Horse and force us to rack up martial values?
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
It's the known world's largest collection of holy phallic symbols. How can it not be a symbol of fertility?
If Fythagyna-Consort becomes a synonym for what's now known as "Male King", it won't be a demotion at all.
Such a change would start as a euphemism and later evolve into a title.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
*sees you call him Micky*
If we show the total prominence of Crow then we can keep him from being seen as an all powerful king, he will be restrained by the fear of the most powerful deity, Crow.
I know this may seem like campaigning, but it's what I believe is the best way to stop a 'king of the gods' from forming, have a bigger fish that makes it impossible for any god to try and go 'I'm biggest and bestest!'.
5-7, might get us an econ-per-turn bonus. Will trigger Divine Stewards for a stability point. I'd be up for it, so long as we're set up to pay for it.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
tldr let's make Mathulmyn the chief god by taking away crow's Teacher aspect and making him solely an alien, unknowable deity.
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- Location
- Mists of Albion
It's called debating and showing your views, you just said, oh vote for me because your going to lose!
It's his choice who he votes for, if he changes his mind via debate that's fine, if you just say, your opinion isn't going to do anything, it's worthless vote for me, that's not you using logic to change their opinions.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We can ramp econ so fast at this point it isn't really a worry. We're getting +8 Econ for the start of the next update anyway. Between expand forests, refugees, and our repeatable expand econ without slot worry, were basically set econ wise.
- Location
- Mists of Albion
I'm saying why they shouldn't vote for her, I'm not saying, 'oh your going to fail, vote for me' I'm saying she is a lesser goddess, who gives us relatively nothing, a logical argument.
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
- Location
- Mists of Albion
I honestly appreciate your optimism, but I doubt that she will become so prominent, she's not the most popular goddess, nor the lost powerful, thus it's unlikely she would ever become popular and powerful enough to make her that powerful.
It's unlikely that the kings will become consorts to be honest, a nice thought but unlikely.
- Location
- Hell
I think you misunderstood me. I believe whoever gets the Main Temple dedicated to them becomes the head of our pantheon, simply out of the amount of effort we are putting into venerating them. If Crow is put there, that automatically stop Mathulmyn from being called King of gods.
That was the point I was trying to make.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
*coughs*
I'd argue that she gives us hope that the drought will pass or whatever.
Long term, however, this is a bad choice that does sacrifice the study benefits put forth by Crow-ponents. Putting her in the city so that she morphs into a health deity (cus harvest -> fertility -> health) is a better option and gives her more prevalence. Though it kind of does point toward her as a wife of M... like she's the goddess of the city, the king marries her... yeah.
@veekie I summon thee to just make a really long post so that people stop fighting each other and start fighting you.
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"Married to the land" isn't exactly a metaphor the Ymaryn would have trouble understanding.
Or consider inappropriate for a King.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
To solve this theologic crisis, I propose a simple system: WWCW. What Would Crow Want.
I know we usually use "What Would Crow Do" when we are faced with tough decisions, but since "tell everyone a riddle and poop on their faces when they answer it wrong" isn't going to solve our problems I decided to change it a little.
Now, go reread the stories we know of Crow. Go take another look at the Cosmogeny, the Religion infobase and our founding story, and look at how Crow acts in them. Does that look like a guy who wants to be worshipped? Someone who wants us to build a grand ornament devoted to his name?
I don't think so. No, the best way to honour Crow is to keep him in our hearts as we retell his lessons and look out for more. That is the proper way of worshipping the Primordial Being Crow.
Whether the person in question wants to avoid X is a different matter, but the argument itself is solid.
I know we usually use "What Would Crow Do" when we are faced with tough decisions, but since "tell everyone a riddle and poop on their faces when they answer it wrong" isn't going to solve our problems I decided to change it a little.
Now, go reread the stories we know of Crow. Go take another look at the Cosmogeny, the Religion infobase and our founding story, and look at how Crow acts in them. Does that look like a guy who wants to be worshipped? Someone who wants us to build a grand ornament devoted to his name?
I don't think so. No, the best way to honour Crow is to keep him in our hearts as we retell his lessons and look out for more. That is the proper way of worshipping the Primordial Being Crow.
Saying "If you want to avoid X, it is better to vote for Y because Z isn't going to cut it" is in fact a logic based argument.
Whether the person in question wants to avoid X is a different matter, but the argument itself is solid.
Look, if she really was a lesser goddess, she wouldn't have popped up. We know this because Bytah, an actual lesser goddess, isn't on the list.
- Location
- his hidden lair
Except I don't really see Crow as that kind of deity. He's a trickster creator god, who 'rules' the creation he made isn't necessarily a concern of his.
Especially since we decided on 'Alien, but knowable' because chances are the masses themselves don't have the theological understanding to push on the knowable part and that Crow will be considered mostly 'alien' to them unless a shaman specifically 'explains' some of Crow's motives to them.
I'll freely admit my stance isn't fact, but I do think considering Crow as less Zeus 'head god, preeminent, etc.' and more a vast force beyond most human comprehension is closer to how he's actually seen.
'let's make Mathulmyn associated with wisdom in general but emphasize the aspect of him providing said wisdom to others, including the king'- outright making him the chief god.
That's the other thing I've got to ask- why is having the Mathmagician our chief god such a bad thing? Crow, no matter what this thread thinks- is not our chief god even if he's considered the most powerful and important. Having something approaching a pantheon head isn't intrinsically a bad thing.
Crow is not our chief god in the sense of a traditional pantheon head. Having another take that position isn't necessarily the end of the world.
...I think even if that was the truth- it'd be an awful idea to associate the concepts of; trickery, alien perspective and motivations, taboo, and other fun things with the concept of leadership. I just really don't see it working like that, especially since you're taking what's probably the least venerated of the three and expecting a single temple to totally displace the pre-eminence of the other two.
I mean, even if you used Odin as the example of a 'trickster' pantheon head, he was far more about cunningly ruling and manipulating others than 'shit on your head while laughing' or school of hard knocks life lessons.
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pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Ya. It would actually pretty much be perfect for them and the image would be excellent for translation onto a king. Especially so if the land was put as primary over the king.
- Location
- Somewhere over the rainbow
I mean, part of my problem with making Crow the head god is partly what the hell would people even pray to him for?
Because one of the largest functions of a temple is a house of prayer and worship.
Like, the argument for Crow is that it'll enhance his Trickster aspect, but have any of you considered it might boost his Devourer aspect?
So if someone were to go to this main temple to pray, they can pray to three things:
Crow the Teacher
Crow the Trickster
Crow the Devourer
Prayers to Crow the Teacher would be something like "let me understand your teachings", which would probably be boosted by LoW for a minor boost, while keeping it relatively sane.
Prayers to Crow the Trickster would probably go "please reveal the point of this trick", and given that our other choice is alien but knowable it would essentially force this part into Crow the Teacher
Prayers to Crow the Devourer would make Crow our god of death. Therefore you would pray to Crow the Devourer to destroy your enemies and preserve your family.
All in all, this would probably lead to Crow turning into a bipartite god, split between the god of death and the god of learning, which would lead to an association between Death and Learning, and holy crap this is already dovetailing uncomfortably close to Honorable Death.
The harvest goddess, meanwhile is more simple, though it does raise some counter force to Love of Wisdom, especially in crisis situations.
Because one of the largest functions of a temple is a house of prayer and worship.
Like, the argument for Crow is that it'll enhance his Trickster aspect, but have any of you considered it might boost his Devourer aspect?
So if someone were to go to this main temple to pray, they can pray to three things:
Crow the Teacher
Crow the Trickster
Crow the Devourer
Prayers to Crow the Teacher would be something like "let me understand your teachings", which would probably be boosted by LoW for a minor boost, while keeping it relatively sane.
Prayers to Crow the Trickster would probably go "please reveal the point of this trick", and given that our other choice is alien but knowable it would essentially force this part into Crow the Teacher
Prayers to Crow the Devourer would make Crow our god of death. Therefore you would pray to Crow the Devourer to destroy your enemies and preserve your family.
All in all, this would probably lead to Crow turning into a bipartite god, split between the god of death and the god of learning, which would lead to an association between Death and Learning, and holy crap this is already dovetailing uncomfortably close to Honorable Death.
The harvest goddess, meanwhile is more simple, though it does raise some counter force to Love of Wisdom, especially in crisis situations.
I don't care for what it does re: Heredity or gender roles.
It's just almost certain to happen with a harvest goddess as primary.
I think trying to make a primordial abstract alien trickster no one beyond our theologists actually prays to because he is only barely benevolent the subject of our massive first temple is a taxes level of bad idea. Us investing all this time for a temple no one will visit because nobody actually cares about Crow that much is a thing that could happen. Or maybe all the attention makes Crow into a generic, more easily understandable god, thus destroying what we find cool about him. We might also lose stability from our people disliking how all this effort is wasted on some dude they dont actually worship.
Though a crisis about making Crow more hip and cool to the common farmer would be pretty fun.
Though a crisis about making Crow more hip and cool to the common farmer would be pretty fun.
The destruction of evil is enough. Can we call ourselves righteous if we let evil live uncontested? Shall we simply turn from the plight of innocents? No. Our Justice gives us the strength of ten! WE SHALL BRING IRON JUSTICE TO THE EVILDOERS!
Honestly, we could probably take the absolute worst that the TH could throw at us without flinching. Remember, they're seriously distracted with other conquests right now.
Omegahugger
Inattentive Idiot
If we get to decide what aspect of Demon God Crow is depicted in the temple, I preemptively vote for Spider-eyed Crow.
Because we need to remember that only when we combine all aspect of the Ymaryn are we complete.
The actual reason is because Spider-eyed Crow's the coolest.
Because we need to remember that only when we combine all aspect of the Ymaryn are we complete.
The actual reason is because Spider-eyed Crow's the coolest.
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