No matter what happened Crow would obviously be among the most important representation - there was a very strong argument that rather than a representation being the centrepiece of the site they should instead paint Crow's image on the ceiling to demonstrate that he was above all other spirits and yet also separated from them.

We can still put him on the ceiling if we put another god in the center. Though there is a possibility of the paint fading if we don't treat it properly.

Switched to this because I want to see our shamans arguments over how to portray Mathulmyn.

Fythhagyna's portrayal would also be fun.

For the Boats option, it could also lead to specialized boat building tools.

[X] [Temple] Fythhagyna
[X] [Crow] Alien but knowable
[X] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
Let's give some other gods the spotlight and authority, such as the goddess of the Harvest. Plus, can you imagine how historians would look at us for having our grandest temple be dedicated to the harvest?
Uh...grand temples to harvest gods are the norm, not the outlier, they're only really in any competition with Thunderers and Solar gods.
Thor is a harvest god for one.

You rarely see Tricksters given pride of place however, only Sun Wukong get much respect, and then only after he was spanked and put in his place.

Yeah I am too... It might be brass but... we know the Thunder Horse have that so...

Hmm... maybe Tin? Yeah that may work as strategic since it is needed for Bronze and the other ingredient for Bronze, Copper, is also on there.
Tin, almost certainly. It can't be identified as an ore yet btw, nobody can smelt tin for a LONG time.

Very few. Although worthy of veneration, they are seen as being somewhat distant from common events as their significance is more primordial, although in some communities that place greater emphasis on ancestral veneration they become the ancestors of ancestors and thus have authority through being the most elder of spirits.
So basically boosts the importance of the clans as a religious basis.

Hmmm... Fythhagyna is usually depicted as a woman of about late twenties to early thirties holding a sickle in one hand and a fistful of wheat in another. The degree of dress varies from place to place, as well as whether or not she is pregnant and/or breastfeeding a child. Slap fights between shamans who think it disrespectful to show her naked and those who think it disrespectful to not show her naked are common.
Classic Demeter figure then.
Mathulmyn is almost more a common name for an idea than a proper god. There are three depictions depending on location: the first is a thoughtful man of middle age with elaborately braided hair and a full beard; the second is an elderly man with a truly long beard and bald held, hunched over either with age or to whisper advice into an ear; the third is a noble, matronly woman in fine dress reclining upon a chair and with a knowing smile.
So that's:
-Twythulmyn
-Bynwyn
-Magwyna

At least I think it's so.

Well, thinking about it, if the Thunder Horse don't have it themselves which seems likely given the lack of tin trade items, then it is probably the Eastern Nomads or some civ we don't know about out to the East who have access to the metal. And the Stallions just sent a trade caravan thataway so... *wiggles eyebrows*

Could be something.
Tin cannot be smelted at this tech level. You make bronze by adding the tin ore to copper ore during the smelting process, so the released tin vapors are captured by the copper at the right temperature.
Take a wild guess what the next phase of the arguments about the temple will be :p
But if they are not the central piece, then wouldn't the simple solution be to depict all of the forms?
Technically it's still there, it just hasn't gone back up to epidemic levels since it first arrived.
*Shudders*
Also I wonder if after this we will be able to make temples to the other gods as an extended project and if so maybe making a temple to the god of kings when we build the Palace will have some nice synergy?
Probably, but beware that temples in politically important places will rapidly gain spiritual dominance through royal sponsorship.
You should see the Atum-Ra debacle.

A second temple should probably give enough time for the concept of the first temple to permeate through everything.
 
I like the idea of ceiling Crow for both thematic and meme reasons. Meme-wise we have ceiling Crow watching you masturbate.

Thematics-wise it has Crow apart from the other Gods but not beneath them is stature. He encompasses the entirety of the temple, great wings spread out over the Gods akin to the night sky above the world, and from there his many eyes can watch our stories unfold. It's a great piece of imagery over all. Perhaps smaller one eyed crows could be among the rest of the art as well. Always with the People even when hidden in plain sight.

Very nice.
 
You rarely see Tricksters given pride of place however, only Sun Wukong get much respect, and then only after he was spanked and put in his place.
Odin, Anansi the Spider, Coyote. That's three gods off the top of my head who had a lot of trickster elements in their lore and history who were held in prominence.

And I said grandest temple, as in our most important, the one for the guy we hold above all others. I can tell you that I don't often think of Harvest Gods as heads of a pantheon. Important and venerated, yes, but not the head hancho.
 
@veekie @NotAlwaysFanfic I'm not sure the Trickster head vs Harvest head is all that relevant to the discussion?

I mean I'm picking Crow because I like him and his stories, I want him as our chief god eventually, he was our first god, and I like the synergy picking him has with Alien but Knowable.
 
I wonder, with the shamans usually having pet Crows have we developed a domesticated breed of Crows?
Hmm? I am not aware of them having pet crows. Can you point me to the update or wog that makes you think that?

Other than that given enough time if our shamans do have pet crows then yes a semi domesticated form is probably possible.
 
Veekie do you think this will also help solve our mysticism issue since it involves studying much like our LoW trait or do you think just having a main temple no matter the god will help train shamans faster countering the mystic drain?
Possibly it'd help, if we make questioning the nature of existence a fundamental facet of religion(as we would if the chief god is one that your religious duty is to try to figure out what the fuck he is).

But it probably won't solve the problem on it's own.
Our new trait for: "Lets get every stat by overflowing with stupid amounts of Diplomacy" might though!
Yes, the first batch of wine has yet to arrive as the drought has delayed it considerably.
Um...IIRC doesn't wine made from grapes grown in drought years taste exceptional? Or so I recall people mentioning water stress being good for wine production whenever it's not actually fatal to the plants.
He's been fine for a thousand years, and has been one of our most important spirits throughout. Him not having pride of place in the center of the temple won't change that.
I'll point you to the original Norse pantheon head, before Wotan/Odin displaced him. Nobody even recalls who he is anymore, but there are suggestions it might have been Tyr.

And late in the Norse faith, there were more standing Thor temples than anything else so he very briefly got syncretized with Christ before being pushed off entirely.

In the Taoist faith, the Three Pures were swiftly displaced to become advisors to the Jade Emperor once it got popular.

People have very short memories in the scale of history.
Hmmmm... I would say that it would have involved intense theological debates.
Heh, some projects are best not rushed it seems.

It's not yet significant, but the temple and people questioning things (especially now that they are really realizing that their conceptualizations of the spirits has variation between provinces) is really starting to crystallize theology.
Oh yeah, I'm personally hoping by making Crow Top Bird he'll help reinforce the concept that multiple aspects should be the norm
 
Meme-wise we have ceiling Crow watching you masturbate.

There is actually a path to make that completely a thing.

In ancient Egypt there were periods where the pharaoh was expected to publicly masturbate to ejaculation during coronation in order to prove sufficient virility to ensure an heir. There are also creation stories where the creator god created the world by jacking off an either producing the world or fertilizing the world. With the right central deity, particularly Fythhagyna, you could totally have a the king "ritually fertilize the land" or something like that.

All while Crow watches from above.

Just a reminder, human beings have always been perverse little bastards.

Come to think of it, do we have Dogs?

Since before agriculture.
 
Um...IIRC doesn't wine made from grapes grown in drought years taste exceptional? Or so I recall people mentioning water stress being good for wine production whenever it's not actually fatal to the plants.
There was discussion on this way back. Ask @Umi-san and @Lilithium, they were the main informational sources.

I'll go back and look.

It'd be wonderful if our first vintage was also one of the best.
 
There is actually a path to make that completely a thing.

In ancient Egypt there were periods where the pharaoh was expected to publicly masturbate to ejaculation during coronation in order to prove sufficient virility to ensure an heir. There are also creation stories where the creator god created the world by jacking off an either producing the world or fertilizing the world. With the right central deity, particularly Fythhagyna, you could totally have a the king "ritually fertilize the land" or something like that.

All while Crow watches from above.

Just a reminder, human beings have always been perverse little bastards.
Pffffffttttttttt AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: *vigorous applause*

Oh holy crap. *hiccup!* HeheheheAHAHAHAHAH *hiccup!*
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 31, 2017 at 10:06 PM, finished with 44415 posts and 62 votes.
 
There is actually a path to make that completely a thing.

In ancient Egypt there were periods where the pharaoh was expected to publicly masturbate to ejaculation during coronation in order to prove sufficient virility to ensure an heir. There are also creation stories where the creator god created the world by jacking off an either producing the world or fertilizing the world. With the right central deity, particularly Fythhagyna, you could totally have a the king "ritually fertilize the land" or something like that.

All while Crow watches from above.

Just a reminder, human beings have always been perverse little bastards.
Must not let inner pervert control actions must not let inner pervert control actions MUST NOT

i mean i already knew about the downright obscene Egyptian gods and lemme tell you the Shinto ones are also really wild but I WASN'T THINKING OF IT UNTIL NOW
 
Last edited:
Must not let inner pervert control actions must not let inner pervert control actions MUST NOT

i mean i already knew about the downright obscene Egyptian gods and lemme tell you the Shinto ones are also really wild but I WASN'T THINKING OF IT UNTIL NOW
FIGHT-O LILITHIUM FIGHT-O!

GANBARE!
 
What kinds of breeds have developed?

Mostly working types like hunting, herders and a few guardians. No real companion types yet, although retrievers and anti-vermin breeds are starting to develop with more recent selective pressures from the past few centuries. Far, far less diversity of breeds from the modern times, and still significantly lupine even if fully domesticated.
 
[X] [Temple] Gwy and Gyo
[X] [Crow] Benevolent
[X] [Boats]Size
[ ] [Boats] Not the boats, but where they are made
[X] [Drought] Weed out troublemakers (Main Restore Order)
[X] [CA] Bring in whoever comes (Chance of stability loss, +2 Econ)
 
and a few guardians.
Ooohh. How big we talkin here? 50 kg? 100 kg?
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 31, 2017 at 10:14 PM, finished with 44421 posts and 63 votes.
 
We've never destroyed our civilization yet, no.
We have so many nice legacies, values, megaprojects and tolerances that we probably don't want a civilization collapse.

It'd be wonderful if our first vintage was also one of the best.
I doubt any of them will last though. None of the civilizations have any concept of how valuable vintages are or how to store them.

I'm hoping to conceptualize breeding for favourable traits soon. We've already started with the white cows and our multi-culturalness could help that along.
 
Oh AN could we have developed dog themed or wolf themed Berserker elites?
 
Thought I'd break down what I see as the purpose of each temple theme.
[] [Temple] Mathulmyn
I have to say that this is a poor choice for the temple... not for the reason that other have said, so much as this is the god you want your Palace dedicated to. I really like the idea that the first thing the lobby contains two walls with different stories on opposite sides of the chamber. On one wall is a copy of the LAW in its early form. Praised as a grand idea with everyone in agreement.... on the other wall is that tax code. The one that involved high level ,theoretical math being used and endless rules and exception everywhere. On one side forms of Mathulmyn look on approving with smaller images of important subgroups of society look approving as the rulership classes bask on under the praise... on the other side the smaller images look on clearly baffled as the rulership group actively try to push the tax code of doom up a 85 degree hill, The Mathulmyn images are clearly trying to talk them out of this. The next image is them trying to push it up a 82 degree hill and so on... the Mathulmyn getting increasingly exasperated as the images (generation go on). The last image being everyone looking happier and far less confused when the rulership class just hands them a much simpler one as the hill is around 62 degrees.

Having the entry art of the government building being this weird and not being all about the glories of leadership is hilarious to me. Enshrining both the good ideas and the bad ones for future generations. Nothing says think before you act like knowing stupid decisions will be enshrine across for the good decisions, for everyone to see. Just make a long hall with plenty of space for more art on the way to the central chambers.

Other Civs dignitaries reactions to this theme would be amazing. Only Civ out there actually encouraging stable, forward moving if bland leadership. Not so much don't rock the boat as don't tip it over.
[] [Temple] Fythhagyna
Doesn't really make sense as the location is the sacred forest site. Venerating agriculture should be at a site that venerates agriculture. I picture this one's temple as a hill top with water piped in being a temple to all things agricultural. The sacred forest site is more about stewardship of the land in general. The temple should somewhere that doesn't have so many trees as the focus.
[] [Temple] Crow
So pretty much everyone at this point is going with 'Alien but comprehensible'. This means Crow is all about trolling people for their own good. A puzzle box that seeks you out and challenges you to solve it. Not so much a central focus as a primal driving force. However, this would make study of the unknown and progress the central focus.
[] [Temple] Gwy and Gyo
This one is interesting. Not gods as the focus, but instead The People themselves as the focus. The idea of a central origin and unity of the parts of a whole.
 
Back
Top