Paths of Civilization

[Dieb]

I just read through the story posts, and I have to admit amusement about how this thread evolved from Themes!Quest to Numbers!Quest.

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It is a bit amusing, but I think it's easy to exaggerate how much it has done so. We were given an Econ, Marital, Mysticism, etc score for our civilization from I believe the second story post onward? ie basically the beginning. Everything but Econ slots and stability if I remember correctly. And while actions didn't have costs and benefits given in numbers for awhile, AN said that was because our society hadn't developed writing yet. Once we got that to a high enough level is when we started seeing the numbers for actions.

 

[Vocalend]

There's a couple of mechanics that once you take the actions to unlock them you will likely go "Why didn't we do this sooner?"

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.....If one of them is an Intrigue mechanic, I will quite proverbially lose my mind.

 

[Therealtahu]

We literally had that value for a while, Pioneering Spirit. We fed it to get LoO, and didn't pick it back up because trails are expensive.

It'd be great now but we no longer have any source of it with the fall of the WC.

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I couldn't find details for Pioneering Spirit or Love Thy Neighbour in any of the story posts before they were combined, so I guess they came with our civilization when Path of Settlers was chosen.

Edit: Love Thy Neighbour and Pioneering Spirit traits

 

[Candesce]

I couldn't find details for Pioneering Spirit or Love Thy Neighbour

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Love Thy Neighbour's direct mechanical effect was borrowing a trait from one of our neighbors. (It also gave us nebulous diplomatic and tech-thief bonuses, IIRC. I think it was actually the evolution of Sharing Circle, which was a trait we picked up for sharing food with neighboring tribes during that first drought? We diploannexed Redshore because of it.)

Pioneering Spirit was a trait we borrowed; mechanically, what it did was automatically convert one point of centralization to one point of economy every time stability dropped.

 

[Umi-san]

...We found out about them from XS when they returned our gift of teaching them sanitation. That is well after we had sailboats.

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...? No. We found about the infinitely before that. We've known of them since before the Hathatyn, IIRC, due to the WC or Something.

 

[Hyacinthium]

Currently on page 1748, I'm somewhat salty about Academia Nut not archiving his WOG and thus making it easily accessible to people.

A bit less salty that other people are constantly quoting and talking about his WOG but not gathering and making a post of 'hey this is all the WOGs if you wanna check something we have it all for free come one come all and gaze that the WOG'. I mean, it's a shit ton of work for both options but we have people using WOG from YE OLD TIMES when it's not relevant anymore.

/insert do it yourself here/

Yeah, I actually might. But then that post would also get lost or outdated too. Maybe I'll link it in my signature or something. RIP.

Nut is the one with thread marks though, fancy smancy ones too.

 

[pbluekan]

Currently on page 1748, I'm somewhat salty about Academia Nut not archiving his WOG and thus making it easily accessible to people.

A bit less salty that other people are constantly quoting and talking about his WOG but not gathering and making a post of 'hey this is all the WOGs if you wanna check something we have it all for free come one come all and gaze that the WOG'. I mean, it's a shit ton of work for both options but we have people using WOG from YE OLD TIMES when it's not relevant anymore.

/insert do it yourself here/

Yeah, I actually might. But then that post would also get lost or outdated too. Maybe I'll link it in my signature or something. RIP.

Nut is the one with thread marks though, fancy smancy ones too.

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Use search bar. Search for posts by academia nut only within this thread. Gives it in chronological order, newest first.


In other news, I'm thinking a black soil main might not be a bad idea. Or if that seems too much, a secondary. It's one of those things that is so vital to the core of our society but we just kind of let it fall by the wayside ever since we did enough to get through the Sacred Forest.

Edit: phone typing stupidity.

 

[Hyacinthium]

Use search bar. Search for posts by academia nut only within this thread. Gives it in chronological order, newest first.


In other news, I'm thinking a black soil main might not be a bad idea. Or if that seems too much, a secondary. It's one of those things that is so vital to the core of our society but we just kind of let it fall by the wayside ever since we did enough to get through the Sacredness Forest.

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But it seems that the majority of people simply are not doing that. It 'takes longer than using thread marks' and the fact that this is a quest that they play for fun would be the reasons why. Despite how much I and other people would love it if everyone rampaged the search function... the bulk of players would rather take low effort actions even when they're invested in the game/story. For a measure of how many seconds or clicks anyway. Would you be more willing to scroll through pages and pages of posts, or scroll through an easy to read threadmark tab where each link has a nice informative title?

The later is infinitely more approachable to the average voter. Which is part of the problem, since it seems that Academia Nut actively likes it when voters use short term thinking. IE, quickly reading the reasoning of a well known poster or just insta voting instead of spending some time thinking about the options.

 

[pbluekan]

The later is infinitely more approachable to the average voter. Which is part of the problem, since it seems that Academia Nut actively likes it when voters use short term thinking. IE, quickly reading the reasoning of a well known poster or just insta voting instead of spending some time thinking about the options.

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He likes our tears.

 

[Hyacinthium]

He likes our tears.

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He does! He fucking feed off of them.

Soon he'll sprout into a tall Academia Tree and thus demand even more tears like the sadist he is!

 

[BungieONI]

But it seems that the majority of people simply are not doing that. It 'takes longer than using thread marks' and the fact that this is a quest that they play for fun would be the reasons why. Despite how much I and other people would love it if everyone rampaged the search function... the bulk of players would rather take low effort actions even when they're invested in the game/story. For a measure of how many seconds or clicks anyway. Would you be more willing to scroll through pages and pages of posts, or scroll through an easy to read threadmark tab where each link has a nice informative title?

The later is infinitely more approachable to the average voter. Which is part of the problem, since it seems that Academia Nut actively likes it when voters use short term thinking. IE, quickly reading the reasoning of a well known poster or just insta voting instead of spending some time thinking about the options.

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Well short term voting certainly creates amusing scenarios for him to read.

BungieONI threw 1 100-faced dice. Reason: Hmmm Total: 5

 

[Hyacinthium]

Well short term voting certainly creates amusing scenarios for him to read.

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It's also true to real life haha

ha q=q

 

[Candesce]

the bulk of players would rather take low effort actions even when they're invested in the game/story. For a measure of how many seconds or clicks anyway.

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I'm pretty sure that voters will skip some discussions of why one vote option is better than another, simply because the person typing the discussion made the mistake of putting their reasoning between each vote instead of all before or after - it makes it harder to copy-paste a complete vote, after all.

 

[Sivantic]

Wouldn't you have to redraw the districts every time you ripped up and relaid the infrastructure? That vote would seem to make it less likely for us to do that going forward, therefore.

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Not really since the trait is less about needing to do that and more that we just don't have NIMBYs. The People accept that things will happen in their backyard, since it benefits them.

Ehhhhh... maybe.

With the timing that we did with building walls before possibly going geographical, it is quite likely the borders are going to be partially delineated by those walls. What this means is that things inside the walls and districts can be torn down and rebuilt without redrawing the boundaries.

It's basically a case of what is the boundaries anchored on. Maybe we can ask AN?

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I don't understand why people are getting that geographic is suddenly going to sprout walls within the city.

The first I heard it from was from veekie and I saw zero evidence that that would happen. It is fearmongering

Meanwhile, occupational government is more likely to favor advancing trades. This means things like developing better techniques for making pots, to having groups of shamans debate how to tackle a problem.

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Historically untrue. Guilds have repressed advancement more often than not in the name of reducing competition.

Sailing Mission: Never done this. Meet people, find cool stuff, see cool stuff.

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Trade Mission - Into the Wild: We've never, ever done this. Meet people, find cool stuff.

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Actually we've done both of those things.

 

[DocMatoi]

[X] [Clan] Roll back, institute geographic administration within Valleyhome (Possibility of stability loss)

 

[BungieONI]

I don't understand why people are getting that geographic is suddenly going to sprout walls within the city.

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That was coming from me thinking that when we picked the build wall action it did involve walls being built in the city instead of just around it. Had nothing to do with geographic in my mind.

I also don't appreciate being connected to/accused of fearmongering.

 

[Shard]

Slaves do not have the right to choice, that is reserved for the master.

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A slave can choose. Anyone can choose. They have the ability to do so.

It's simply that disobeying has very bad consequences for themselves.

 

[maximillian]

A slave can choose. Anyone can choose. They have the ability to do so.

It's simply that disobeying has very bad consequences for themselves.

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I meant as in the legal capacity for choice is denied. By law/tradition.


Same as with children are denied legal capacity for most decisions. They can take them but in the eyes of the law and society it is not a product of will, since that is legally subordinate.

 

[Hyacinthium]

A slave can choose. Anyone can choose. They have the ability to do so.

It's simply that disobeying has very bad consequences for themselves.

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So you're saying that while they can choose, it's implausible or unfeasible to the point that they functionally cannot choose =p?

 

[Guile]

Is anyone else worried about Enforce Justice being blocked by walls? It makes it sound like we'd be attacking our own cities or something.

I'm just assuming the people voting to keep the Clans hasn't read any updates since the vote to use them

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Then can I just assume people voting for geographical are doing so because 'muh democracy' with no concept of the drawbacks Involved? That seems about as fair as what you just said.

 

[bluefur87]

Not!Egypt is not your southwest neighbor in the sea, the people the Highlanders trade for metal are somewhere in the hills and mountains there. The quasi mythical land of plenty that traders sometimes speak of is further south and West.

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As promised, here's a better map

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...? No. We found about the infinitely before that. We've known of them since before the Hathatyn, IIRC, due to the WC or Something.

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Well, I you might be right, I can't figure out when it might have been posted, but I did figure out the relevant location is definitely not just to the west of the southern metal workers. It is most notably further south and west. It should be noted that I'm reasonably sure the map before this one did not have not!egypt on it, and did have the metal workers on it.

Currently on page 1748, I'm somewhat salty about Academia Nut not archiving his WOG and thus making it easily accessible to people.

A bit less salty that other people are constantly quoting and talking about his WOG but not gathering and making a post of 'hey this is all the WOGs if you wanna check something we have it all for free come one come all and gaze that the WOG'. I mean, it's a shit ton of work for both options but we have people using WOG from YE OLD TIMES when it's not relevant anymore.

/insert do it yourself here/

Yeah, I actually might. But then that post would also get lost or outdated too. Maybe I'll link it in my signature or something. RIP.

Nut is the one with thread marks though, fancy smancy ones too.

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But it seems that the majority of people simply are not doing that. It 'takes longer than using thread marks' and the fact that this is a quest that they play for fun would be the reasons why.

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If you genuinely have a problem with people not constantly providing links to the bowls of this quest, you really haven't tried to search for things yourself very much. It's a complete nightmare and it's actually much safer to trust our own memory and accept others are right if they're insistent about it enough and we remember poorly enough.

 

[Kiba]

Is anyone else worried about Enforce Justice being blocked by walls? It makes it sound like we'd be attacking our own cities or something.

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Why do we want Enforce Justice to be more powerful than it is already is? We don't want the centralization because we want to be able to build roads and infrastructure.

Then can I just assume people voting for geographical are doing so because 'muh democracy' with no concept of the drawbacks Involved? That seems about as fair as what you just said.

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No. I read everyone's opinions on that matter. I am unconvinced of the merit of occupational based administration.

 

[maximillian]

Is anyone else worried about Enforce Justice being blocked by walls? It makes it sound like we'd be attacking our own cities or something.

Then can I just assume people voting for geographical are doing so because 'muh democracy' with no concept of the drawbacks Involved? That seems about as fair as what you just said.

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Enforce justice is the king showing everyone how big a stick he has. The higher the walls the more they obscure the stick. And thus the king needs a bigger and thicker stick that can overshadow the wall.


As for district, if democracy was a consequence I wouldn't vote for it.
What is voted for is admin efficiency(municipality) , policing efficiency(precept) hazard control (whatever you call the administration for it) census efficiency, tax efficiency... Etc.

Making districts and then subdividing provides a plethora of information and ease of control and exploitation for any buecracy.

 

[Rakuhn]

Currently on page 1748, I'm somewhat salty about Academia Nut not archiving his WOG and thus making it easily accessible to people.

A bit less salty that other people are constantly quoting and talking about his WOG but not gathering and making a post of 'hey this is all the WOGs if you wanna check something we have it all for free come one come all and gaze that the WOG'. I mean, it's a shit ton of work for both options but we have people using WOG from YE OLD TIMES when it's not relevant anymore.


Yeah, I actually might. But then that post would also get lost or outdated too. Maybe I'll link it in my signature or something. RIP.

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I made a general guide to everything that AcademiaNut had said for his Into The Amber Age Quest. It took several work days of effort. Even if the quest hadn't ended soon afterwords, I don't think that the guide would have been very valuable to the playerbase as a whole. Most of the information was either already well understood, rules that applied in very specific circumstances, or were no longer applicable.

Even AcademiaNut simply creating threadmarks for all of his statements would take him a very long time. I'd expect that just the plan to do that would drain him of energy, and significantly reduce his enthusiasm for continuing the quest.

Long story short, the task would be very, very long, and very, very monotonous.

 

[Shard]

I meant as in the legal capacity for choice is denied. By law/tradition.

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The law/tradition does not actually stop you from doing things. Just because, for example, stealing is illegal, does not mean that you are cannot steal.

So you're saying that while they can choose, it's implausible or unfeasible to the point that they functionally cannot choose =p?

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Essentially, yes.

The same theorem can be applied to society in general. There are consequences to going against peer pressure, consequences to breaking social norms, consequences.. whose likely outcomes might nudge one into doing something other than they would otherwise have done. Certainly not to tbe same extreme as torture, death and such, but the principle does apply.