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Paths of Civilization

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maximillian said:
You forget the expand snails, we bloody haven't done it in over a thousand bloody years.

Edit :two thousand bloody years.
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Notably the last time a province did it we immediately unlocked watchtowers. It's one of the advantages of leaving provinces on Balanced that they take the options we don't and thus unlock cool stuff sometimes.
 
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pbluekan said:
Alright? What actions have we basically never used or can stand to be finished?
  • Black Soil: I imagine this is a little like our Step Farming, in that after a couple more uses it will just become part of everything we do. As Kiba said, possibly making Expand Forest better or more automatic. I think this is probably the best idea of the lot to just try and finish it.
  • Build Vineyard: Haven't done it, I imagine this will be a new source of trade good for us, and possibly an improvement to agricultural tech and maybe festivals.
  • Found Colony: Fairly obvious in what it does, but we can't do it anyway.
  • Found Trading Post: Never done this. This looks like a great way to bleed off martial and to increase our diplomacy which overflows into art and then mysticism. The narrative benefits should be immense as well. There's the distinct possibility this allows us to incorporate technologies from our neighbors, gather more of their people to us, and possibly even start our usual takeover process.
  • Integrate March: This scares the shit out of me. They are so martial I'm a little worried about what we might absorb.
  • More Boats: We've done this before, I think, but we're right on the cusp of innovation at this point.
  • Sailing Mission: Never done this. Meet people, find cool stuff, see cool stuff.
  • Study Forest: We have done this all of once and it provided us some cool narrative dialogue about poisons. I don't recall if there was a immediate tech benefit.
  • Trade Mission - Into the Wild: We've never, ever done this. Meet people, find cool stuff.
  • Extended Projects: Havent completed any of these. They seem very useful, especially the salterns. I'm leery of turning any of our other settlements into True Cities, but the health benefits may be worth the risk.
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You also forgot art patronage. That likely will actually be very good, honestly, as we have almost no concept of art patronage in the first place, having done it a total of once as a secondary to unlock tech.
maximillian said:
You forget the expand snails, we bloody haven't done it in over a thousand bloody years.

Edit :two thousand bloody years.
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If you count when we actually started having turns we've only been around for about a thousand years. I believe we should be in the low 40's for turns? Maybe mid. At 45 turns 25 years a turn it's been 1,125 years max.
 
maximillian said:
You forget the expand snails, we bloody haven't done it in over a thousand bloody years.

Edit :two thousand bloody years.
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Not quite two thousand. Since we got out of civ creation we've had about 1000 to 1100 years pass, and I think Redshore took it once a couple centuries ago, sometime after we got provinces.


bluefur87 said:
You also forgot art patronage. That likely will actually be very good, honestly, as we have almost no concept of art patronage in the first place, having done it a total of once as a secondary to unlock tech.

If you count when we actually started having turns we've only been around for about a thousand years. I believe we should be in the low 40's for turns? Maybe mid. At 45 turns 25 years a turn it's been 1,125 years max.
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That time is about right, though like recently, we've had a few instances of multiple mid turns in a row. Malevolo and Motoko figure art patronage + towers or walls will push us toward concrete.
 
And most importantly, we can't have heraldry and finery without widespread and varied dyes. We're proto nobles and burghers dammit! Not some miserable peasants!


As for years, time and its conception is beyond mortal comprehension. As the passage of centuries continues, who truly knows what has passed and what is yet to pass. Time is a sea of shifting sand that cares not for the Nomads traversing it.










In short two thousand bloody years sound much better than one thousand one hundred and thirty five bloody years.
 
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maximillian said:
And most importantly, we can't have heraldry and finery without widespread and varied dyes. We're proto nobles and burghers dammit! Not some miserable peasants!
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Expand Snails shouldn't get us more varied dyes. That would probably be study forest? Maybe a trade mission into the wild to find more people.

We should probably seriously consider doing trade missions, sailing missions, and into the wild missions for many turns. It will likely get us new tech from our neighbors and people we haven't met.
 
Actually, IIRC the provinces expanded snails one time, right around the tax crisis in response to the discovery of flags. That was what unlocked the Saltern if I'm not misremembering.
 
bluefur87 said:
Expand Snails shouldn't get us more varied dyes. That would probably be study forest? Maybe a trade mission into the wild to find more people.

We should probably seriously consider doing trade missions, sailing missions, and into the wild missions for many turns. It will likely get us new tech from our neighbors and people we haven't met.
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I would like to start cultivating clams and seaweed.

Umi-san said:
We've done it at least twice, IIRC. First to discover the MW, second time didn't result in anything.

Still a good idea, though. Expanded map, potentially new trade ties with N!Egypt or the people from the northern bay/lake.
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I think second time resulted in us discovering the Southern Hill People.
 
bluefur87 said:
We should probably seriously consider doing trade missions, sailing missions, and into the wild missions for many turns. It will likely get us new tech from our neighbors and people we haven't met.
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I guess we could swap over to trade policy for a while. But first we need to get this megaproject done. Preferably in more than seven turns so that we can get the library sometime in the next two centuries.
 
We've never created a stone age dam and had it fail on us, so skipping over that was probably a good thing. Actually, when was the last time we had a major drought in the region?

The Highland Kingdom might not be such a bad choice for a value.

Old quote from after the lowlanders splintered:
Academia Nut said:
They have a social value that increases their Econ whenever their stability drops.

Using military means to restore stability causes an initial drop and then restores 0 to 3, for a total of -1 to 2. Because of timing, this means that whenever they restore stability, they grow their economy.

Because they take slaves, they also increase their Econ whenever they take a military action.

They also have developed a way to add a fraction of their Econ to their War score.

Their centralization is however in the toilet, and centralization mitigates damage from natural disasters, so since theirs was negative...

The salt was real.
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I don't think we know this value. Edit: It's Pioneering Spirit.

Sounds like Restore Order. Order Above All from the Highland Kingdom might improve this.

We don't take slaves.

Quality of Its Own.

They have an unknown means to reduce centralization. Edit: Also Pioneering Spirit.
 
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Umi-san said:
Still a good idea, though. Expanded map, potentially new trade ties with N!Egypt or the people from the northern bay/lake.
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I don't think we're going to find the super farm people so easily by sea. Would likely need to be by land, and... Honestly, I'm all kinds of down for putting the majority of our trade on the water. I'm reasonably sure people would just start ambushing any land caravans that go further than a couple of nations away from us.
Glassware said:
I guess we could swap over to trade policy for a while. But first we need to get this megaproject done. Preferably in more than seven turns so that we can get the library sometime in the next two centuries.
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We're going to have to switch to megaproject support next turn, really. I hope the provinces use this turn on balance wisely.
 
There's droughts, but it doesn't really matter to us, because we prepare for such eventualities, plus we do fishing, which means that droughts doesn't affect us as badly as the lowlanders.
 
pblur said:
We don't. Or hierarchy. Or Martial at nonnegative stab.
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We've had Martial at "partial overflow" at non-negative stability before. The turns before this one. Nothing bad happened, but nothing good either. We also don't really know how to raise (or lower) hierarchy; certainly none of our Actions can do it. It's easily the most opaque of our current stats. For all that people say we don't have a way to reduce Centralization, we actually CAN do so - make new provinces. It's just that making new provinces worsens our road problem, so most of us reject that out of hand.

pblur said:
Let's do double enforce justice this turn. It will guarantee nonnegative stability, and put us at least as high on centralization as we've ever been.

In retrospect, AN has been quite coy about the effects of 'overcapping' centralization. And narratively it's always heen a little hard to justify over-building roads as causing a crisis
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Narratively it IS easy, however, to see how "Enforcing Justice" too much could lead to a crisis.
 
bluefur87 said:
I don't think we're going to find the super farm people so easily by sea. Would likely need to be by land, and... Honestly, I'm all kinds of down for putting the majority of our trade on the water. I'm reasonably sure people would just start ambushing any land caravans that go further than a couple of nations away from us.

We're going to have to switch to megaproject support next turn, really. I hope the provinces use this turn on balance wisely.
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The super farm people? You mean the people who have plenty in the desert and are specifically labeled in the map as being past the hathatyn around and on the coast? And which our people know the vague location of?

Eh, we got the caravans to the XS okay but I agree that if we tried, say, buying opium directly by land it would be ineffective. I think the people from the northern bay were only able to reach us due to the lessened nomads, right?

They're probably reachable imo. I doubt there's a large salty inland sea, having the MW simply be the northern coast of a spur of land is simpler.
 
Therealtahu said:
We've never created a stone age dam and had it fail on us, so skipping over that was probably a good thing. Actually, when was the last time we had a major drought in the region?

The Highland Kingdom might not be such a bad choice for a value.

Old quote from after the lowlanders splintered:


I don't think we know this value.

Sounds like Restore Order. Order Above All from the Highland Kingdom might improve this.

We don't take slaves.

Quality of Its Own.

They have an unknown means to reduce centralization.
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We actually did find out how they reduced centralization - it was a social value, called Pioneering Spirit. We had it through whatever CA was called at the time for a little while. Every time stability drops, you gain 1 Econ but lose one point of Centralization. Basically, people moving out to the frontier when stability drops. So it wouldn't help with the road situation in the end, just like us making new provinces drops centralization but doesn't help with roads.
 
Umi-san said:
The super farm people? You mean the people who have plenty in the desert and are specifically labeled in the map as being past the hathatyn around and on the coast? And which our people know the vague location of?

Eh, we got the caravans to the XS okay but I agree that if we tried, say, buying opium directly by land it would be ineffective. I think the people from the northern bay were only able to reach us due to the lessened nomads, right?

They're probably reachable imo. I doubt there's a large salty inland sea, having the MW simply be the northern coast of a spur of land is simpler.
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They're from somewhere vaguely to the southwest and super far away that has been said to be unrealistically reachable by us. Might change with better boats and lots of sailing missions. We're likely to see a lot of stuff if we do those two things, so I actually really hope we do. Need more map.

The XS would be my limit to how far I'd be willing to push out trade, or to a nation on the other side of the Highlanders, for example. Even that would be somewhat tenuous, as the highlanders might get bright ideas about mugging our caravans.
 
We need new land to colonize that doesn't require a shitload of diplomacy. The way to do that is to discover islands and new lands to establish colonies.
 
bluefur87 said:
They're from somewhere vaguely to the southwest and super far away that has been said to be unrealistically reachable by us. Might change with better boats and lots of sailing missions. We're likely to see a lot of stuff if we do those two things, so I actually really hope we do. Need more map.

The XS would be my limit to how far I'd be willing to push out trade, or to a nation on the other side of the Highlanders, for example. Even that would be somewhat tenuous, as the highlanders might get bright ideas about mugging our caravans.
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Eh, it was said to be unreachable by us when we first developed sail boats, or some period before that. Considering we can already reach the MW with those, I assume that a refinement on our sailing technology (doable with 1 more boat action) it should be reachable.
 
Umi-san said:
Eh, it was said to be unreachable by us when we first developed sail boats, or some period before that. Considering we can already reach the MW with those, I assume that a refinement on our sailing technology (doable with 1 more boat action) it should be reachable.
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...We found out about them from XS when they returned our gift of teaching them sanitation. That is well after we had sailboats.
 
Academia Nut said:
AN: A curious idea, I wanted to do a civilization type game, but move away from a lot of the micromanaging type details and more towards something a bit more general. This is not about optimizing minutiae, but about choosing the structures and ideals of a people, culture, and civilization over time as various challenges rear their head.
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I just read through the story posts, and I have to admit amusement about how this thread evolved from Themes!Quest to Numbers!Quest.
 
Side mention: PS is kinda what we just had happen, but economically rather than militarily. The drop in centralization is from people explicitly ignoring their superiors and leaving to do their own thing.

So yeah, it'd be good for stats but not so good narratively.
 
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