And a different guy responds.
Sorry, I already have the idea that the provinces will do what AN says they will. And so does everyone else in this argument. Its not like you can keep it secret...
If the situation allows. Things that can come up that keep them too busy to do so. What your ignoring is that the grand triple study means going into negative stab on purpose. There is a major faction of voters that consider that the devil incarnate.
Edit: or is the idea we'll get that efficiency is good? Cause I think that's pretty widespread too...
You just used 'efficiency' wrong. What your taking about is known as 'haste'. Its about getting to the good part. Its about skipping the boring part. Its about speed run tactics.

Its about saving/gaining an extra turn.
 
It's a point of contact but whether that ends up meaning anything is kinda up to what happens to their current owners.

I doubt even that, simple due to the sheer size of lowlands,
As far as we can see nobody can exert enough influence on the whole lowlands to make them do anything beyond paying tribute & accepting new social value's
Remember the only ones who actually could somewhat controll the lowlands where the original DP & their lowlands successors the WC

When it came to everybody else they remained largely unaffected by what ever crisis hit's their current masters, until whatever happened to owners spilled back into the lowlands in form of either war or sickness
 
Which is the point.
Hmm good point.

It's a point of contact but whether that ends up meaning anything is kinda up to what happens to their current owners.

They are xenophobic because all they know of foreigners are the Raiders of the East and Raiders of the West, who steal their family, supplemented by Conquerors of the North and South, who demand tribute and provide nothing.

They won't believe us until we show them how we expand; by taking land and holding it.

It is rather humorous that the problem with the Lowlands is that all the sides so far are after the people that live there. Yet for the Ymaryn, it is not the people we are after, but the land. We understand where the true wealth is.
 
Hey guys, new reader. Sorry for not going through the entire thread, but... well, 1570 pages. You guys mind if I ask a few questions?

1) We seem to be at the level of composite recurve bows. Is there anywhere to go from there? Lamination, compound?
2) Are there downsides to expanding the forest? Weakening our own war machine (since we use war chariots too), for example?
3) Can we use up our extreme levels of Martial to train, say, fishermen to become part-time warriors? Make aggressively friendly vikings? Or does making warriors actually make more Martial, not less?
 
Making warriors is basically training more warriors and as such increases the martial stat, which represents the amount of military power we have.
 
2) Are there downsides to expanding the forest? Weakening our own war machine (since we use war chariots too), for example?
Might hide ore deposits, but that doesn't matter if we do surveys beforehand. Aside from that, there are no downsides to expanding the forest. Chariots aren't as good as infantry in a forest.

3) Can we use up our extreme levels of Martial to train, say, fishermen to become part-time warriors? Make aggressively friendly vikings? Or does making warriors actually make more Martial, not less?
It makes more Martial. Martial is spent by getting our warriors killed or sending them to a periphery state. Making our fishermen do less fishing will decrease Economy, not Martial.
 
2) Are there downsides to expanding the forest? Weakening our own war machine (since we use war chariots too), for example?
Yes, but no, because we lose the chariot archer abilities, but instead get huge combat bonuses from Divine Shapers and also nullify their strongest tool in their war machine (because they have chariots too!)
So no, not really. It just costs valuable actions that this thread would rather not spend waiting.
 
Hey guys, new reader. Sorry for not going through the entire thread, but... well, 1570 pages. You guys mind if I ask a few questions?

1) We seem to be at the level of composite recurve bows. Is there anywhere to go from there? Lamination, compound?
2) Are there downsides to expanding the forest? Weakening our own war machine (since we use war chariots too), for example?
3) Can we use up our extreme levels of Martial to train, say, fishermen to become part-time warriors? Make aggressively friendly vikings? Or does making warriors actually make more Martial, not less?
1) There are places to go from composite recurve, but that's locked behind other technologies/social practices we don't have. For now, the easiest ways to improve our archers is through ancillary stuff.
2) The only true downside to expanding the forests is time and loss of action economy. Expanding the forests makes for a good defense against the Nomads, but it takes multiple turns of repeated actions to get appreciable results, and other important things kept coming up (like iron)
 
1) There are places to go from composite recurve, but that's locked behind other technologies/social practices we don't have. For now, the easiest ways to improve our archers is through ancillary stuff.
2) The only true downside to expanding the forests is time and loss of action economy. Expanding the forests makes for a good defense against the Nomads, but it takes multiple turns of repeated actions to get appreciable results, and other important things kept coming up (like iron)
Oh, psh, IRON. That stuff'll never catch on.

We could expand forests, be elves.
 
Obviously we need a Megaproject that selectively breeds a new kind of tree, namely Ironbark, which we can then use to harvest iron and avoid the Stability loss of opening up new mines.

... What do you mean, 'not only is that impossible, we will lose that downside in three turns'?
 
The First Smith
The First Smith.

Once long ago, in the days before the metal sleeping in the ground had exhausted its curses, the people were happy and content. There was strife, but the grannies were full and every house had a shrine and the people were secure in their knowledge that they had the blessings of the spirits. Even as the men of thunder came to pillage and raid, the people were content, even as greed and war festered in the hearts of our neighbors the people were content, and each day was much like the one before it.

Until one day, something unusual happened. Somehow the greatest artisan of the age had won a great boon from the spirts. How he had done so a mystery to all, some say he crafted a great gift in a show of piety, others that he solved an intractable riddle in a show of wisdom, or perhaps he never earned it at all, and Crow sought to teach the people a lesson. How it came to but is known only to the spirts, but somehow the greatest of the craftsman was gifted a single Spark of brilliance taken from the forge of the gods and a cryptic warning from its giver.

"The Spark, like all flames must be fed."

At first, the craftsman was overjoyed. Gleefully he burned his wealth, stoking the spark to a brilliant red glow, driving him to create masterpiece after masterpiece, until he was lauded among the people as truly without peer. But every time the pile of food needed to be higher, and the Spark would cool more quickly. Soon the craftsman was offering the very masterpieces he created to the flame, stoking it to still greater heights but rendering it ever hungrier.

Soon the man began to fear that the spark would gutter and die, leaving him with naught but ashes and memories of lost glory. Every day he would create a dozen and one great works, and feed a dozen to his spark. Until one night, staring at the fading glow of the divine he spoke of his doubts. Airing his fears where none but the spark could hear them, and as he spoke he could feel his fears vanish into nothing with bursts of heat, as the Spark began to burn with a greater intensity than he had ever seen. Stoked to still greater heights by the doubts he had fed it.

Again the man was delighted, and without doubt or hesitation, he moved to embrace this new fuel. Feeding the Spark his every ounce of hesitation and fear. Without hesitance to hold him back, and with his spark stoked to a yellow heat, his works became both far greater and far stranger. Ever more bizarre materials would he throw into his works, embracing every whim with no hesitation. Until one day, he used a strange red stone and was inspired. Imbued as he was with a fragment of the divine he could recognize it for what it was, the faded remnants of divine wrath locked away within the earth. This he declared, would be his legacy.

forsaking lesser works he focused the entirety of his brilliance on the red stone but for the first time his divine gift failed. No mere skill could awaken the power, and the man was enraged. Heedless of the cost he stole the sacred dead from their resting place, and fed their bodies to his flame, firing it to a baleful yellow glow. using forbidden secrets and the ash's of their bones he compelled their spirits to tell him all they could have land of the gods. The man grew powerful, and the people grow fearful as the omens spoke of the spirits outrage. but still it was not enough, still, the weapons of the gods slept. But he had ripped form the spirts the nature of the might sleeping within the earth, for it was the star metal itself that he sought to awaken.

stealing into the scared rainbow bridge, passed the sleeping and content guards the man stole from the people the sacred fragments of a fallen star, and fleeing unseen into the wilderness. Fleeing deep into the earth, into a grand and unknown cave in the red cliffs the man set to work. Calling to the sleeping power in the red stones, seeking to rouse it to wakefulness with the divine might of his boon and the power of the still waking star. feeding half the star metal to work his flame to a terrible white furry, and crafting the other half into the first smiths hammer he set about his task. The stone groaned , and wept and stirred but would not wake. With his goal so close the man forsake what few crumbs of sense he had left. Bit by bit he fed all that he was to the flame, His mind his heart, his very name and face joined all of his wealth and works on the divine pyre he had stoked the spark to. Until at that he had left was his mad purpose and the spark burned with an unearthly blue flame, then with a terrible wailing and darkening of the sky he succeeded. Burning away the divine wrath of the sleeping metal it was born anew, and the first mortal iron was forged. The first smith held up his masterpiece, and the people wailed as the last dyeing ebbs of it's curse wrought havoc upon them, ripping away the blessings of the sprits and leaving them naked before the greed and bloodlust of there neighbors.

Driven by the cooling embers of his purpose the man fled from the cave, to show the people what he had wrought, but all who beheld him fled in terror For after burning so much of himself the Smith was far more a sprit than a man and none could stand before his terrible continuance. Again and again he sought to find someone to pass on the knowledge, to fulfill the purpose that was all he had left. Until at last he came to the king of the people. The king alone stood fast before the strange sprit with a face like a forges mouth and a glowing staff in it's charred skeletal hand. The First Smith with his dying breath, thrust the staff of iron into the kings hand, and whispered the secret of iron into the kings ear, crumbling to ash as he spoke the final word.

To this day the shamans still argue over what become of the First Smith after that. Some say his soul was poorly received, punished harshly by the dead he had transgressed against, others say that nothing of him was left, that his very soul had been consumed leaving naught but hot ash to arrive in the land of the dead, and still others say his very mortality was consumed and he arrived in the realm of the spirits as the mad and faceless god of the forge, the truth of the matter is known only to crow. But what is known is that the people where no longer content. Without the blessings of the spirits the evils of the world sought to overwhelm them, and they faced them alone, but they faced them with iron in hand.
 
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Hey guys, new reader. Sorry for not going through the entire thread, but... well, 1570 pages. You guys mind if I ask a few questions?

1) We seem to be at the level of composite recurve bows. Is there anywhere to go from there? Lamination, compound?
2) Are there downsides to expanding the forest? Weakening our own war machine (since we use war chariots too), for example?
3) Can we use up our extreme levels of Martial to train, say, fishermen to become part-time warriors? Make aggressively friendly vikings? Or does making warriors actually make more Martial, not less?
Yeah if you have any questions about how the stats work ask @veekie because he's a generally analytical dude or the thread in general. The stats meanings are things we all generally agree on.

With 1) there is technically the yew longbow, but that is mostly equivalent to what we already have, and besides which we don't seem to have yew. We very recently hit upon massed volley fire which means we are very very firmly the best archers out of any civ we know. We actually have been for some time but this cements the position.

On the first page are some very informative posts by Academia Nut that cover things like our social values and what tech's we have. Also at the end is an extra stuff post that has our Omake index, a picture of our Greatest Hero Ever and thread favorite character Gwygoytha as well as a very nice strategic map.


I also took some time to update and annotate that map and posted that into the thread to fit the current political and strategic scene. Let me dig it our for you.


Fair warning you might need a anti-bomb/EOD suit. This thread can get quite hot regularly.

Oh, psh, IRON. That stuff'll never catch on.

We could expand forests, be elves.
Heh I like your sense of humor. Really though we are better than elves or dwarfs. We are Dwelfs! Or svartálfar if you want to reference a really good IRL mythic analog.

Just to give perspective no one else even has bronze or even widespread copper tool use from what we understand. The Eastern Thunder Horse have brasses but we don't know how wide spread their tool use is. This is gonna change soon but we have a massive lead for now.


Obviously we need a Megaproject that selectively breeds a new kind of tree, namely Ironbark, which we can then use to harvest iron and avoid the Stability loss of opening up new mines.

... What do you mean, 'not only is that impossible, we will lose that downside in three turns'?
Actually... I don't think that is entirely impossible...

Hrmmmmmm... Plants frequently sequester heavy metals...

Realllllllly Really Really Really long project and it'd be more of a Ironbush or Ironmoss probably.
 
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3) Can we use up our extreme levels of Martial to train, say, fishermen to become part-time warriors? Make aggressively friendly vikings? Or does making warriors actually make more Martial, not less?
Martial is strictly combatants. If you want them to do something productive you must first get the tech for it. Currently their main use is actually building Marches so they can pre-kill nomads before they can raid the main lands. For instance, the Romans made males joining the military the only way for them to get citizenship. They also made the build roads to where ever the hell they where set out to if they didn't exist yet. Some of those roads are still in constant use from that. Not the routes the literal roads they built. They made rather durable roads.

A new mechanic was made after the threat went nuts with vengeance after the duel nomad hero raids. Now 1/3 of economy counts as martial and if martial gets damaged enough in a fight, economy points can also drop from loss of man power.
 
Forgot the note about those people that sent a caravan out into the sudden, massive, steppe herpes free zone.
No I did not.

See the far right "Nomads" with an arrow under it. I consider the Caravan, Nomads so that is my mark for them. I also marked that there were people and nice things in that direction of east.
 
[X][Main] The Mountain
[X][Secondary] Change Policy - Megaproject Support
[X][Secondary] Black Soil
[X][Kick] The Mountain

Honestly, metal is overrated, it's better to improve our agriculture. "But Random, how will building a bigass mountain improve our agriculture? It's completely useless!" And that's where you're wrong, Strawman SV'er I just created! Read this!
late post, but ...we're IN mountains, my dude
 
Obviously we need a Megaproject that selectively breeds a new kind of tree, namely Ironbark, which we can then use to harvest iron and avoid the Stability loss of opening up new mines.

... What do you mean, 'not only is that impossible, we will lose that downside in three turns'?
Is it the same sort of impossible as the giant spirit mouth the Spirit Talkers took us to meet?
 
Ok folks here is the most updated map with some annotations for clarity, hopefully.



The Spirit Talkers were fake fakers who fake giant spirit mouth with fake fakery. Their spirits were bogus.
Not like Crow who is totally real and not fake, and also our friend.
And who looks like this.

 
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