I don't see how? I thought each study action cost 1 stability except Study Health.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
I don't see how? I thought each study action cost 1 stability except Study Health.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
I kinda want to do study health next turn, instead of relying on the province.
If the provinces don't pull through, we'll have to do study health again on the third turn, alongside an unnecessary study metal. And at that point our stability would be trashed, and with all of our actions tied up we'd have no ability to respond to events.
If the provinces do main study health, but we choose to do it anyways, then the provinces change to two other actions instead. Basically no loss of actions.
If they do And we don't, then... Same as above but slightly more directed.
If they don't and we do... Same as first.
If they don't and we don't, everything goes to shit.
It's not worth relying on the provinces doing the right action and getting it all done in one turn. We gain almost nothing, but we risk everything.
If the provinces don't pull through, we'll have to do study health again on the third turn, alongside an unnecessary study metal. And at that point our stability would be trashed, and with all of our actions tied up we'd have no ability to respond to events.
If the provinces do main study health, but we choose to do it anyways, then the provinces change to two other actions instead. Basically no loss of actions.
If they do And we don't, then... Same as above but slightly more directed.
If they don't and we do... Same as first.
If they don't and we don't, everything goes to shit.
It's not worth relying on the provinces doing the right action and getting it all done in one turn. We gain almost nothing, but we risk everything.
PyroTechno
The Procrastination Pokemon
[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Restoration
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
If we're going to be spending a bunch of Stability, I want the provinces to make more...
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Restoration
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
If we're going to be spending a bunch of Stability, I want the provinces to make more...
- Location
- Hell
Yes?
We are building a Mine and have a secondary Grand Sacrifice, so that leaves us at 0
Oh wait
Derp
I thought we were at 0 right now >.>
Think of it this way.
We do one study and Grand Sacrifice
Provinces do Study health.
Awesome, we only need to do the other study action.
They don't do it, and we do it manually the turn after with the remaining study action.
It still works out if we gamble
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The People's bodies were recovered and if in the People's land the enemy bodies were anonymously buried in mass graves, otherwise they were just left out for the animals when they were well away from places the People actually went.
Nah, you barely had any penetration of iron weapons at the time so at most they got some trinkets and figured you had recovered a lot of star metal to equip more than one chief with an iron axe.
Time.
Impossible to tell through the language barrier.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
But that leaves us with no wiggle room to respond to anything at all. It locks in our actions on the second and third turn.
Or just the second if prov co-op.
My plan locks in actions on just the 2nd turn, third is free to react if necessary. Lowland war is brewing...
Also, check out @PyroTechno's vote. Restoration policy. I like it.
It works. Keep our stab up via provinces, take care of the challenge personally, max out our stab and get into a golden age just as we achieve scientific enlightenment... Hell yeah.
Edit: plus free policy change, can kick off our golden science age with progress.
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Strategic flexibility. The less turns before completion the less time that some weird shit can show up and Observance triggering again.
Also Stability is currently 1, will drop to 0 and go back to 1.
That said, we probably won't have the leisure to do it exactly as planned.
Good thing we have a turn's leeway huh?
Yes. It's a fairly efficient way to deal with it.
We don't risk ANYTHING. We know for a fact that the provinces will try to act to fulfill the challenge while in Balanced.
They don't choose actions at random. The only reason they'd do something else if if we were being attacked or some similar crisis, in which case we'd be taking only one of the Study actions anyway so we can help.
Ah cool.
"Man, these guys sure have a lot of stars"
Actually counterproductive, Stability isn't low enough to be the limiter for this event. Actions are. If we use Restoration/Progress we're basically stuck with failing the event if ANYTHING happens at all, with no chance of turn 2 completion. Balanced, we can Study Health next turn or the turn after, taking one hit at a time if there's a crisis, or if we got a quiet stretch, we just rush it all.
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redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Restoration
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forest
Honestly i dunno what to do with last secondary. But mine + restoration looks like the perfect combo if you don't want to rely on the provinces to study health for us.
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Restoration
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forest
Honestly i dunno what to do with last secondary. But mine + restoration looks like the perfect combo if you don't want to rely on the provinces to study health for us.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
*Joe has gained the paranoid trait!*
I don't trust those stinking stinkers! They only have their own interests at heart! They'd have us buried in explosive tags if they knew how to make 'em!
... Too much Kagome?
How do you figure? It'll cost 6 actions, we personally have 8.
If nothing happens next turn, we do 4 of them, leaving 2 spare on turn 3. If something happens, we do 2 of them and use 4 on turn 3.
Basically same idea behind your 'if the provinces get distracted' contingency plan.
Highest point of failure is if something goes wrong on turn 2 and on turn 3, but that applies equally to you If something goes wrong and distracts the provinces on both those turns.
However, my plan has a contingency for even that! If something goes wrong on turn 2, we can dedicate 1/2 of our secondary actions to addressing it, and the other to maxing stability to proc a policy change (or doing it manually (assuming they don't max out stability on their own)) and use their actions as necessary either to address the problem or force them to study, whether they'd rather defend themselves or not.
Infinite contingencies! CONSTANT VIGILANCE
Edit: in addition to the extra layers of security making it virtually impossible to fail, this plan includes the benefits of high stability as Sivantic is arguing for, lets us outright ignore certain disasters and choose the best actions despite stability hits, and has the best chance of sparking off a golden age (complete with automatic policy change to take advantage of our golden age and shiny new advice value!)
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Restoration Policy has no ability to respond to the Southshore issues. Balanced has the ability to Salt Gift to delay a conflict, and in the second and third turn they will also be able to build walls and towers to respond to aggression from the south, or if there is no issues, they can also conduct Grand Sacrifices to make up the needed Stability or Study Stars/Expand Holy Site to bring the Mysticism buffer to something closer to parity.
Restoration rules out the option of finishing everything in the second turn, whereas in Balanced, if the provinces don't Study Health in the second turn due to emergency response(an emergency which we will have 2 Secondary actions free to respond to), we can manually complete it on the third turn for both sides. This allows for greater strategic flexibility as we'd have 3 Secondary actions available on the first, second and third turns to react to problems of any sort.
As such, Restoration is ONLY preferred if you would rather have a higher risk of failing the challenge than seeing Stability -1
Restoration rules out the option of finishing everything in the second turn, whereas in Balanced, if the provinces don't Study Health in the second turn due to emergency response(an emergency which we will have 2 Secondary actions free to respond to), we can manually complete it on the third turn for both sides. This allows for greater strategic flexibility as we'd have 3 Secondary actions available on the first, second and third turns to react to problems of any sort.
As such, Restoration is ONLY preferred if you would rather have a higher risk of failing the challenge than seeing Stability -1
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redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Via the application of additional policy changes and forethought, i assure you that restoration has virtually no chance of failure.
We get attacked? Policy change to offense/defense, ignore attack and focus on challenge.
OR policy change to progress and get them to study health despite the attack; a single secondary war mission should suffice to defend us given our massive military.
Go into turn 3 with only one action necessary, ensured success.
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redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
No? Secondary war mission is the default 'defend borders' action. Short of TH gathering full armies to smash us, it's enough.
We don't need 5 main war missions on every conflict you know.
... And if the full might of TH does come upon us, policy offense gives us the necessary war missions.
- Location
- Hell
It's part of why I don't take part in the regular schedule making. There is too much that can change at a moments notice. As you yourself had noted, it is a plan for if nothing happens next turn.
I'd rather avoid instability. That is the part I am concerned with.
Someone has to be>.>
That however, necessitates us getting smacked in the face first. I'd rather have the equivalent of a admin hero in the background doing everything that needs doing.
So...how does this do the job better than having 3 free secondary actions available each turn to react to issues, with a chance of turn 2 finish?
So now that we have iron for all our tool and weapon needs our copper is likely going to something else. What do we think that is? Copper wire (for use in binding rather than conducting electricity), piping, jewellery and architectural fixings? Maybe even copper cookware? Though I seem to remember something about that needing to be lined with something... Is verdigris toxic perhaps? Or does it react with food?
Edit: not that we used copper for weapons, but still.
Edit: not that we used copper for weapons, but still.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
???
Nothing necessitates us getting hit in the face.
I'm not suggesting we eat uncontested attacks.
Why are my arguments being so misunderstood?
War isn't the only crisis we might have to respond to. Refugees, disease (pls no), comet of doom, some idiot discovering iron early... These things cost stability to address freely.
We might be able to address them without loss of stability, but that misses out on the opportunity. Having high/maxed out stability means we can respond to ANY event.
my plan comes with an intrinsic policy change when it's needed. If we max out stab, free focus on area of choice. If necessary to handle any specific issue, single secondary out of the two spares it has available to address it.
If we have two, unrelated problems, stability will handle one while policy change handles the other.
@Sivantic, you're arguing for high stability. Tell veekie why that's nice.
Umi-san
Procrastinating.
- Location
- ꙮ
We could absorb the ST and then create the Eastern March. If the Eastern March extends high enough it will protect the majority of the ST border that it overlaps with, and we can then use more prestige to found a colony in the middle of the river system north of us.
But y'all hate that plan so I guess we'll just use all 3 of our subordinate slots fighting off nomads. And then, if/when we conquer other people (as will inevitably happen) we'll be forced to spend a Main action integrating a March while dealing with a bunch of other stuff at the same time.
I definitely support doing both Tailings & Metal at the same time as a provincial Study Health. It may bring us to -1 Stability but it provides the greatest possible synergy between the three actions.
@Academia Nut Can provinces undertake stability-garnering actions while under a Balanced policy?
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
High stability is nice. Not losing our challenge to a critfail is also nice. Not having to lose stability, econ and martial to an uncontested southshore attack is also nice.
Out of all of these things, -1 stability is the easiest to fix the turn after.
Out of all of these things, -1 stability is the easiest to fix the turn after.
- Location
- Canada
This is I want Nationwide walls and watchtowers. It will make our territory so much easier to hold.
- Location
- Hell
I am a proponent of having a Stability buffer, when possible, and avoiding instability.
High stability is very nice, especially since we are so close to achieving another golden age. However having Stability 3 is not a requirement to this quest and that is what Restoration Policy would attempt, spending much needed time and resources for it.
As long as we stay above negative stability, we will be fine. A single Grand Sacrifice next turn would provide us the Stability we need to ensure that goal. A Balanced Policy will allow us to react appropriately to whatever comes up, be that conflict or otherwise.
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
We don't really have an idea what scale they're on. Conquering them might be a significant problem...
- Location
- Hell
Also, isn't this exactly why we are voting for a Balanced Policy? So we can focus on this while our provinces take care of anything happening?
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
We've never been not-fine at negative stability. Like, it's not ideal, and I wouldn't want to stay there. But I'm quite happy to dip to -1 or -2 when there's a big reward for it. And a more certain upgrade of observance is a pretty big reward.