Copper is more useful for wires, which can be used for binding and the like as a much more durable and expensive rope alternative. It also works better for anything that gets wet regularly, so cookware would favor copper for a good while, whereas iron would require cooking with a fair bit more grease than we'd be used to using. Other than that, copper is also better for molds and other detail work. Iron is a little bit tricky to work.
Paths of Civilization
- Thread starter Academia Nut
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Hell
We've never been fine at negative. That is what negative Stability means.
We get nothing extra for rushing it. Finishing it in two or three turns reaps equal benefits. Why go for -1 if we can stay in the positives.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
Ok I'm about to get seriously upset.
Not losing our challenge to a critfail? Explain what critfail would result in that with my plan. My plan is designed to remove that as a possibility.
Uncontested attack? For the last time, NO. NO PLAN N EXISTENCE AT THIS MOMENT INCLUDES THAT POSSIBILITY.
I'm tired of people misunderstand and misrepresenting my position. Accident or no, this has to stop.
Do you guys all forget we can change policies? Do i have to channel wendy's "you forgot refrigerators existed" sassy attitude?
We're not locked into restoration or balance for the next 3 turns. We can change it at will.
Doing restoration now achieves the high stability Sivantic wants, and we can freely change it as necessary. It may change itself for us, with any luck.
Last edited:
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
First, I didn't quote you, and I'm not clear on what exactly your plan is. I was primarily responding to the call for Sivantic to explain the niceness of stability.
Second, I'm concerned about a health critfail (I've mentioned this before... something something misunderstanding positions...
) If it hits us any time before the challenge is up, I think it's safe to say we completely lose out on the challenge. If it hits our neighbors, I'd expect a dice roll on that. And there's a decent chance that happens.Third, I'm completely not concerned about the provinces not taking Study Health. So far as I can see, AN explicitly said they would, so I really don't understand the paranoia there...
Last edited:
- Location
- Hell
At the cost of a secondary project.
When we have three Main projects required in the next two turns, it's a little dicey.
Also, stop trying to drag me out as the only one who wants high stability. We should shoot for it when possible. Right now is not the ideal time to attempt Stability 3.
@tryrar what exactly was funny about my comment?
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
That's a very specific definition of the word fine, and one I don't share.
I think 'fine' in this context means 'minimal negative consequences'. Which means we've OFTEN been fine at negative Stab.
- Location
- Toronto, Ontario(occasionally)
[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
- Location
- Panama City
The fact he was expecting you to support him but you did the opposite
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
*squints*First, I didn't quote you, and I'm not clear on what exactly your plan is. I was primarily responding to the call for Sivantic to explain the niceness of stability.
Second, I'm concerned about a health critfail (I've mentioned this before... something something misunderstanding positions...
Third, I'm completely not concerned about the provinces not taking Study Health. So far as I can see, AN explicitly said they would, so I really don't understand the paranoia there...
I keep calling you out because i keep thinking that you should support my plan as a backup to your own.
Either it gets max stability and it doesn't cost a secondary action to change it, or it costs a secondary action instead of your proposed main stability action for the same results.
I mean, we could go ahead and finish it next turn with my plan too.
Restoration maxes out stability this turn, we auto-swap to balanced, do all three actions next turn.
Like, any and every situation anybody can come up with, I can guarantee you restoration will result in both success over the challenge, and a higher stability than not.
Other stats not included in this challenge
pblur
Reminiscing over the halcyon days of Ymaryn
- Location
- Lawrence's Wagon
Oh, so you want restoration this turn? For some reason I was thinking next turn...
IMO, it's too late to change the vote for this turn so not much point. Personally, I'd rather get a few walls, study stars, whatever than rush for stab 3. So I prefer Balanced to Restoration. But if Restoration had bandwagoned, I'd have been fine with it.
- Location
- Hell
Fine, means nothing wrong. Instability is not that. Especially instability that can be linked to the debilitating belief we are trying to remove.
We want to paint this in as little negative light as possible.
The problem is we just plain can't afford to do the quest and max stability right now, both in time and resources, let alone have it done next turn.
I don't see the point in maxing stability at the moment, but I would prefer that we not go negative in the middle of a project to show that we can mine metal without things going wrong.
Our citizens aren't likely to ignore any trouble that comes up just because it's their own expectations of trouble causing it, you know?
Our citizens aren't likely to ignore any trouble that comes up just because it's their own expectations of trouble causing it, you know?
Idea: Lottery prize for saving. This is also known as the lottery bond.
Therefore, the impulse of gambling is directed to actually productive behaviors.
Therefore, the impulse of gambling is directed to actually productive behaviors.
I've only did a quick 3 page look back so I may be missing some things, but I think the issue is that absorbing the Stallions absorbs their economy and military points. Unless they and/or the main government get creamed militarily first that means having too much military again and needing to have a war to burn the excess troops off on or instantly founding a March. I don't expect the Stallions to end up transferring military one-to-one here, but unless there is a March slot open then it'll mean the military over load thing happens again.
So you'd be better off arguing that absorb the stallions and then make the Eastern March. [Insert the settling towards the TH spiel here]
Your plan is:
[] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[] [Secondary] Change Policy - Restoration
[] [Secondary] Expand Forest
Your problem here is four fold:
-First, your suggesting doing economy actions with the main government slots... that is not a popular action plan. There are minions to do that for us.
-Second, a secondary grand sacrifice is only -2 economy and picking iron tools made expand economy actions generate +2 economy.
-Three, we need more mysticism to complete things so the Policy -Balanced handles that problem for us.
-Four, you have angered the Stability faction and they are the current leading persistent faction around here. It's like arguing against building pyramid to Pandomonious Ivy... your committing blasphemy against their cause.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
- Location
- United Kingdom
[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forest
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Expand Forest
I think if a consensus is already reached and AN hadn't started writing, it's a fair bet that he's busy with something else.
redzonejoe
Vaguely Pastafarian
- Location
- Canada
First, i was getting mad at people misrepresenting my position. I dunno why you quoted that specific line out of context like that.
Second, my economy action was more a throwaway action open to suggestions. As noted in the post containing the vote.
Third, pandemonious ivy has argued against pyramids when the situation calls for it, I'll have you know.
Fourth, i just gave up before you bothered to respond. So... Ninja'd?
pbluekan
Somethin's Fucky ...
- Location
- Trumpistan
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Honestly, it's not a trade route that is going to remain open. We got lucky, and we might get some cool stuff out of it, but it isn't going to be a worthwhile trade opportunity with the nomads in the way.
We are infinitely better off looking south, south-west, and west. We should be looking to assimilate or annex the people along the coast to the southwest and take territory from the HK when they next collapse into infighting. Expanding further north is a recipe for continued and more draining conflict with the nomads.
TheDanishLord
Viking Warlord
- Location
- Denmark
[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
Restoration would be a way to guarantee lots of econ this turn if you want it. They don't have the resources they need to get to Stability 3 so they'll just Expand Economy this turn. Next turn it'd be useful, but it's easier to just manually fix our stability.
Personal guess as to province actions:
[Main] Expand Econ (The Law)
[Secondary] Salt Gift
[Secondary] Study Stars
[Secondary] Trade Mission - Hathatyn?
I'd prefer [Main] Salt Gift, but we've been told that they prefer [Secondary] actions, and IDK what the last action would be. Maybe even do a normal [Main] Expand Econ which would get doubled to 2x [Main] which would be really nice.
If somehow everything goes amazingly and nothing goes wrong, I'm in the "Finish immediately" group. Our provinces will definitely Study Health and will very likely help fix our stability problem.... if there's nothing else to grab their attention.
I consider this a low probability, but it'd be very nice if we could. I expect we'd get some sort of Legacy bonus from finishing it early to go along with the Observance evolution.
Personal guess as to province actions:
[Main] Expand Econ (The Law)
[Secondary] Salt Gift
[Secondary] Study Stars
[Secondary] Trade Mission - Hathatyn?
I'd prefer [Main] Salt Gift, but we've been told that they prefer [Secondary] actions, and IDK what the last action would be. Maybe even do a normal [Main] Expand Econ which would get doubled to 2x [Main] which would be really nice.
If somehow everything goes amazingly and nothing goes wrong, I'm in the "Finish immediately" group. Our provinces will definitely Study Health and will very likely help fix our stability problem.... if there's nothing else to grab their attention.
I consider this a low probability, but it'd be very nice if we could. I expect we'd get some sort of Legacy bonus from finishing it early to go along with the Observance evolution.
Last edited:
- Location
- Provo Utah or Northwestern Idaho
[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice
Your were getting frustrated by people's reactions to your vote and plan... I'm trying to explain what is happening here. I feel that is a good plan for responding to confusion.
1) Your not at max (or at least positive) stability.
2) Actions you have to take are going to result in stab hits.
3) Your at zero or negative stab.
4) Its a day of the week ending in 'y'
I quoted that line because it channels your problem the most. It came off as 'What am I doing wrong here? i don't get it'.
You came in half a day into a vote with a bandwagon... then threw a throwaway action into it and expect to convert people to your action plan. That is a large part of what you are doing wrong diplomatically.
Exactly, when it makes sense to the situation he will argue against it. He is not going to argue against it when your picking the next wonder to build. He will argue against it if its the response to a manpower shortage or a drought. For the stability faction the reasons to get stability is that:
1) Your not at max (or at least positive) stability.
2) Actions you have to take are going to result in stab hits.
3) Your at zero or negative stab.
4) Its a day of the week ending in 'y'
No. You posted your giving up a minute after I posted so not ninja'd. Ninja'd is specific to when you write a response and the idea or retort came up while you were writing it.