Do you use electroplating to plate your steel?

What kinds of steel do you use?

We are mostly working with very impure iron that is very brittle, but still better than stone and copper in hardness and ability to retain an edge and resist strikes when in large and heavy plates.

The process you described where you would have a melted bronze coating applied to a iron blade sounds to me like it would be quite thick and unevenly distributed due to the materials and processes the Ymaryn have on hand. It could well work but it seems really sketchy.

Well, my industry is just a user, but I did visit the supplier before.

Based on requirements, we're using High Tensile steel. Other users may have different tensile/elongation preferences and request different material.
They pass the steel through copper baths, then the zinc/tin baths to electroplate that steel wire, before going through a furnace for diffusion alloying.

I have no idea what are the effects if just dipped an iron axe into molten bronze, and sharpen that.
 
I want this NE march, even if we are getting quite militarized, and it worries me.

This said, I want us to be at at least 12 prestige first, since we have seen how fast it is possible to lose 2/3 prestige points, and to be above sustainable limit on marches would be Bad in my opinion.
Yep notgreat is on to smart things when he says that a 13 Prestige before we put down the NE March is a really good idea.

With a mature West Waller March, the Stallion Tribes, and the East Wallers we'd have a very strong and spiky Shell to ward off all northerner attacks. The East Wallers would also fend off some of the Thunder Speaker raids. I think those are a thing of the past for now since they just got roflstomped by their masters so we have time to fort up the 'lip' of our Shell so to speak and make sure that Redhill is all nice and tightly secured.

What we need to secure it.

At least x2 Main Expand Forests (This should cover both major settlements)
The capital of Redhill is securely walled. We need to Main Walls at least once to wall up the second further east settlement.
And a Main Watchtowers action since I don't think Redhill ever took more than one.


Well, my industry is just a user, but I did visit the supplier before.

Based on requirements, we're using High Tensile steel. Other users may have different tensile/elongation preferences and request different material.
They pass the steel through copper baths, then the zinc/tin baths to electroplate that steel wire, before going through a furnace for diffusion alloying.

I have no idea what are the effects if just dipped an iron axe into molten bronze, and sharpen that.
Hmmm yeah that is way different then what is going on in a Ymaryn forge. I'd expect bad things due to: Differing thickness of applied bronze, impurity of bronze, impurity of cast iron, the heat changing the structure of the iron in unpleasant ways.

Hey @tenchifew since you're here and work with metal powders what do you think would happen if we coated an iron Ymaryn axe with classic (10% by weight Sn) tin bronze?
 
@veekie what do you think the chances are of us smoothing relations with the Thunder Horse and keeping them calm and not raiding in our direction for a few turns via trade routes and salt gifts?
Negligible impact. They're going to want to grab the lowlands and their fertile areas. If we get involved, it's not by their choice. However, now that we have iron mines in Redhill, we want to heavily fortify it so they don't get to steal any of that. Not just city walls, field walls, extensive towers. The works.

Other than that odds are we'd mainly get involved if the Highland Kingdom seeks to have us help them against the Thunder Horse and we'd only really do it to prevent Thunder Horse dominance(except we also know they can't actually hold onto the whole thing yet)

Therefore, to avoid getting into a war with them it's not Salt Gift, but defenses. If raiding Redhill is profitable, then they will.

Nope. Dams don't work that way.

The thread has gone over this a lot but all a Dam does is regulate the flow. It can't stop it at all, just make the flooding more manageable and regular.
And also that if you actually use it to cause rapid variations in water flow for damage you will stress the dam's foundations and damage it in a way that cannot really be repaired without putting the dam completely out of commission for repairs.
Wonder if we could melt down the strange copper we looted off nomads, and plate our iron weapons?

Bronze plated iron weapons would be cool. Prevent rust, bronze properties, while the majority of the mass comes from common iron.
Plating metals with each other has...hard to predict effects. I'll need to search up the reactivities, but I believe this might actually result in sacrificial corrosion(metals in contact will influence each other's rusting process, this is the basis behind zinc plated iron sheets, the zinc will corrode at an accelerated pace to protect the iron).

It'd also complicate reforging and repair works, since you'd be mixing metals you don't know how to unmix.

Been a long time since I did the chemistry on this though.

Other than that though to the thread in general I say next project turn turn should be either of these two (there are certainly more varitations):

State actions
Main Study Tailings (-1 Econ, -2 Mysticism, -1 Stability, improved chance of new insights){Fulfills it's individual Challenge requirement}
Secondary Study Health
Secondary Study Health x2 (-1 Econ, improved odds of success/do remember we are tapped out on the Anti-Disease Tree of this tech branch){With the above Tailings this will finish another of the Challenge requirements}
Uh, why are we using State actions on Study Health? AN had said that provinces will combine actions to do the Study Health for us if the policy allows, and they will try to time it to support the Main research. If you wanted to finish it all at one go, we could simply Main Study Metal and Study Tailings together while the provinces do Health for us.

So what I think would be done next is:
If everything is fine:
-Main Study Metal
-Main Grand Sacrifice
-Province Law Expand Economy
-Province Secondary Study Health
-Province Secondary Study Health x2
-Province Secondary ?

If Southshore is under attack:
-Main Study Metal
-Secondary - War Mission
-Secondary - Build Towers Southshore
-Province Law Expand Economy
-Province Secondary Study Health
-Province Secondary Study Health x2
-Province Secondary Build Towers Southshore

Then we finish with a Study Tailings the turn after.
 
Incidentally looking up uses for tailings and smelter slag:
-Tailings were sometimes used as early glass, as almost every ore used will contain sand impurities, so the resultant would be sort of glassy and colorful, which could be remelted to make jewelry.
-Tailings were used for glazing in powder form, producing glazes of unusual colors, though their suitability for kitchen pottery was...questionable.
-Copper tailings as previously mentioned, often contained iron compounds(whether native to the ore in copper pyrites, or leached from the soil/ceramic as settling sulfuric acid), which could be re-smelted for their iron content.
-Iron slag(source is unclear if this was iron using limestone flux) contained calcium oxides, making it usable as cement when powdered and reacted with water.

So uh...I think Study Tailings now that we have Iron ore is likely to make the discovery of glass.
 
Negligible impact. They're going to want to grab the lowlands and their fertile areas. If we get involved, it's not by their choice. However, now that we have iron mines in Redhill, we want to heavily fortify it so they don't get to steal any of that. Not just city walls, field walls, extensive towers. The works.

Other than that odds are we'd mainly get involved if the Highland Kingdom seeks to have us help them against the Thunder Horse and we'd only really do it to prevent Thunder Horse dominance(except we also know they can't actually hold onto the whole thing yet)

Therefore, to avoid getting into a war with them it's not Salt Gift, but defenses. If raiding Redhill is profitable, then they will.


And also that if you actually use it to cause rapid variations in water flow for damage you will stress the dam's foundations and damage it in a way that cannot really be repaired without putting the dam completely out of commission for repairs.

Plating metals with each other has...hard to predict effects. I'll need to search up the reactivities, but I believe this might actually result in sacrificial corrosion(metals in contact will influence each other's rusting process, this is the basis behind zinc plated iron sheets, the zinc will corrode at an accelerated pace to protect the iron).

It'd also complicate reforging and repair works, since you'd be mixing metals you don't know how to unmix.

Been a long time since I did the chemistry on this though.


Uh, why are we using State actions on Study Health? AN had said that provinces will combine actions to do the Study Health for us if the policy allows, and they will try to time it to support the Main research. If you wanted to finish it all at one go, we could simply Main Study Metal and Study Tailings together while the provinces do Health for us.

So what I think would be done next is:
If everything is fine:
-Main Study Metal
-Main Grand Sacrifice
-Province Law Expand Economy
-Province Secondary Study Health
-Province Secondary Study Health x2
-Province Secondary ?

If Southshore is under attack:
-Main Study Metal
-Secondary - War Mission
-Secondary - Build Towers Southshore
-Province Law Expand Economy
-Province Secondary Study Health
-Province Secondary Study Health x2
-Province Secondary Build Towers Southshore

Then we finish with a Study Tailings the turn after.
Totally works. I got no problems with it.

Those two things I put up were suggestions since there are several variations that mean we can finish it. The first suggestion was a case of making sure we only have Study Metal left to do on turn three and have us with the resources to do. Like literally there at least five variations that would get this to all work. It's great when you only need two important actions in the next turn to go through in order for the plan to work out.
 
Yep notgreat is on to smart things when he says that a 13 Prestige before we put down the NE March is a really good idea.

With a mature West Waller March, the Stallion Tribes, and the East Wallers we'd have a very strong and spiky Shell to ward off all northerner attacks. The East Wallers would also fend off some of the Thunder Speaker raids. I think those are a thing of the past for now since they just got roflstomped by their masters so we have time to fort up the 'lip' of our Shell so to speak and make sure that Redhill is all nice and tightly secured.

What we need to secure it.

At least x2 Main Expand Forests (This should cover both major settlements)
The capital of Redhill is securely walled. We need to Main Walls at least once to wall up the second further east settlement.
And a Main Watchtowers action since I don't think Redhill ever took more than one.



Hmmm yeah that is way different then what is going on in a Ymaryn forge. I'd expect bad things due to: Differing thickness of applied bronze, impurity of bronze, impurity of cast iron, the heat changing the structure of the iron in unpleasant ways.

Hey @tenchifew since you're here and work with metal powders what do you think would happen if we coated an iron Ymaryn axe with classic (10% by weight Sn) tin bronze?

We need multiple expand forests actions anyway, we were already warned that we are needing more charcoal.

Regarding coating- it depends.
Ideally we would want a temperature that would leave bronze in fluid state, while at the same time being not high enough to vaporize any bronze component, but high enough to at least somewhat melt the iron surface, thus bronze and iron would mix and bond on the contact area, say for three four hundred microns or so. This would how I would alloy bronze to iron surface. I would need the complete temperature/pressure graphs to find an acceptable parameter area.
Given that our iron still has rather low melt point there should exist such a parameter area, and it should be possible to heat the bronze enough to reach it before it begins to boil... at least with modern methods.

For our people, where we cannot reach the temperature easily, in an open canister to "dip" iron weapons or tools into it will be far more difficult.

And if we just dip an iron axe into bronze melt with temperature lower than iron melt point, there won't be sufficient adhesion between iron and the bronze "cover", leading to the cover breaking rather easily.

So not impossible, but at least quite hard to do.

Another problem is iron oxide - it has higher melting point than iron, so the object should be polished first before dipping.

Edit: another possibility would be to use extremely rough iron surfaces - enhancing the adhesion through the surface structure.
It may be that the adhesion would be good enough in that case for the coating not to peel off or break easily even if no direct bonding between bronze and iron occurs.
 
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Which would be better combined then? Study health and tailings or health and metal?
Tailings: Prove the harm is specific, limited to the tailings and that even the poisons can have good uses.

Metal: Prove that the curse is poison based, especially the invisible poisons in the air.
Totally works. I got no problems with it.

Those two things I put up were suggestions since there are several variations that mean we can finish it. The first suggestion was a case of making sure we only have Study Metal left to do on turn three and have us with the resources to do. Like literally there at least five variations that would get this to all work. It's great when you only need two important actions in the next turn to go through in order for the plan to work out.

Ah okay. Phone posting woes. Tiny viewport misunderstandings
 
Tailings: Prove the harm is specific, limited to the tailings and that even the poisons can have good uses.

Metal: Prove that the curse is poison based, especially the invisible poisons in the air.


Ah okay. Phone posting woes. Tiny viewport misunderstandings

It would actually be nice to have two study health options- with metals and tailings. Should improve our chances to discover scientific method.
 
[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice

I just hope they do.
I suggest we pick one study next turn and see if the provinces add a study health to it.
We have word of god they will. My inclination next turn is study metal+study tailings+study health (province). Maximum synergy, and also cutting a turn out. One less turn is one less chance for a health critfail to ruin everything.
 
To be entirely honest, what I figured you guys were going to do was take the Tribute option, grab iron, and then kick the nomads teeth after a turn or two when they no longer had a hero leading them and you had iron while they had stone. I did not expect at all that the thread would collectively go berserk.
You do realize this is the same collective of people who, rather than even attempt subordination, said 'fuck it' and risked Bad Ending on at least three separate occasions in previous threads of yours, just so they could spite the big meanies that were going after them then, right?
 
[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice


We have word of god they will. My inclination next turn is study metal+study tailings+study health (province). Maximum synergy, and also cutting a turn out. One less turn is one less chance for a health critfail to ruin everything.
Depending on province actions this turn we may just barely have enough Mysticism to do that. We will certainly have the Stability.

First comes the mid turn though. I see a couple of things being especially likely. All of this is ballpark estimates. Also a likely outcome is that we get multiple of these triggering.


The Thunder Horse reach out into the Lowlands through their puppets the Thunder Speakers or Lowland Minors. This will begin to happen if they finish consolidation and it is rapidly becoming more likely as turns go by.

The Thunder Horse suffer some kind of issue with their unification. This is unlikely. They seem to have a good head of steam going and haven't reached the critical mass point yet where they will collapse due to over extension in my opinion.

Some kind of innovation, tech or social. A small chance, higher for a social innovation. Both are possibly higher due to Challenge.

Some disease. We just met a new culture so they probably imported their diseases. I believe there is a high chance for a new one to appear.

The Western Nomads lead by the Son are quite distant and I believe still busy repairing themselves. There is only a low chance we will receive raids from them.

There must be some Nomad tribes to the North. There is a very good chance they will show up. Whether they attack us or the Caravan is up in the air, the likely target will be both of us.

The Hathatyn escalate the situation. They seem to be gearing up to really try and smack us which will be a bit difficult over the seas. A good chance that they will escalate with the HK as well.

The Highland Kingdom has a Civil War again which interrupts their consolidation. I say this is a 50/50 chance. They can't seem to go at least two generations without one. Increasing as time goes by as it seems to be a feature of their political model.

We may receive traders from the Xohyssiri. With their active trading I would not be surprised to see these guys again. Low chance though due to distance and a probably focus on matters east and south as well as satisfying their masters.

Perhaps the HK will seek to trade with us, if they are not doing it to a low level already (I can't honestly remember if we ever restarted). Low chance again, but if they are succeeding in consolidating I could see their king reaching out to us a little. They certainly seem willing to entreat with us.

And then the obligatory wildcard event.

Next turn our Main has to be either Study Metal or Study Tailings. Preferably Metal in my opinion. The rest of our actions are more flexible.
Adhoc vote count started by BungieONI on May 22, 2017 at 8:42 AM, finished with 39099 posts and 51 votes.
 
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You do realize this is the same collective of people who, rather than even attempt subordination, said 'fuck it' and risked Bad Ending on at least three separate occasions in previous threads of yours, just so they could spite the big meanies that were going after them then, right?

That time with the goat dude definitly counts and the way we handled the fire nerd also fits, but what do you count as third instance? I dont think the forest dudes ever gave us an opportunity to solve things in a less genocidal way and we werent that aggresive towards the mud woman.
 
That time with the goat dude definitly counts and the way we handled the fire nerd also fits, but what do you count as third instance? I dont think the forest dudes ever gave us an opportunity to solve things in a less genocidal way and we werent that aggresive towards the mud woman.
Going even older, and including especially old things like Age of Strife.
 
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