More speculation, zero evidence.

AN warns us if there are negative consequences, even if only by ???. This didn't happen, so fearmongering
How is building a March a negative? How is beating back the SW twits a bad thing? This was about directing people into doing something productive. You simply can't leave that many highly trained, heavily armed people sitting around doing nothing for a decade.

They were going to do something. To believe otherwise is just terrible understanding of mass boredom. This is why i said event roll. The reason the March was an option was that they were already complaining... if not as personally annoyingly to the king as the shamans currently are.
 
And we bounced right back, more powerful than before.
Yeah, plus our iron is going to give us a massive edge from now on. I really wish the nomads had hit the TH rather than the MWs honestly. It would have given us a better understanding of how good the lowlanders are at fighting compared to us. I have no clue how good the MWs were in terms of martial, so them getting overrun could mean anything from us being the biggest badasses in the region to the MWs just having a shit military.
Hurray someone who also thinks the east is good for expansion plans. It's really good in fact. We can push east and turtle along as we go, good luck digging us out. We can even fortify "under fire" so to speak with our policies and such.
Yeah, the eastern hills are incredibly well suited to us. Our traits and tech make that area perfect, plus the defense bonuses would be crazy when stacked onto all of our other bullshit defense traits.

My only objection to settling the lowlands is getting involved in trying to take the lowlands proper. The hills are perfect for us already, so competing for the heavily contested lowlands doesn't make as much sense as going for the comparatively empty hills.
Yeah, I'm not sure why East hasn't been mentioned as viable - the map makes it look like it's unclaimed.
It's been mentioned a few times, though the original idea was to build the NE march to cover it from nomad attacks. The only flaw with expanding east is that it will attract the attention of the TS, and through them the TH, which could be... painful.
 
Was it ever confirmed that our world is a replica of earth? Because all this "not!russia (or not!anything)" and "oh wow an inland sea!" stuff is very annoying if this is an original land.

Judge shit by its own merits? Please?
 
if you don't mind me asking, what exactly did the nomads even gain from all of this? They did some damage to our civ, yes, but wasn't their original goal to destroy the stallion tribes and coastal settlements to force the metal trade to come under their rule? While they managed to do it later by hitting the MWs directly, even then it sounds like we don't even plan to restart trade, so they seemed to have gained nothing much, at an almost insane cost.

Well, it started off as a strategic effort and then evolved into basically pure spite/legacy.

To be entirely honest, what I figured you guys were going to do was take the Tribute option, grab iron, and then kick the nomads teeth after a turn or two when they no longer had a hero leading them and you had iron while they had stone. I did not expect at all that the thread would collectively go berserk.

Is is possible for our provinces to take the Into the Wild (Eastern Sea) mission that just opened up if we have it on balanced?

It's possible, although there are probably higher priorities right now.

Does this mean we successfully scarred the entire nomadic culture for millenia? Or are we gonna have to do better?

Part of scarring them is that by taking the stability hits the People demonstrate a psychotic tenacity to win that would leave lasting scars in the social psyche of those it was directed at. It's not enough to just throw lots of Martial actions at them (although they will be talking about this fight for centuries to come), it's also about throwing everything at them.
 
Part of scarring them is that by taking the stability hits the People demonstrate a psychotic tenacity to win that would leave lasting scars in the social psyche of those it was directed at. It's not enough to just throw lots of Martial actions at them (although they will be talking about this fight for centuries to come), it's also about throwing everything at them.
So will this battle eventually become a gigantic myth and basically our version of Ragnarok in the future?
 
Yeah, I'm not sure why East hasn't been mentioned as viable - the map makes it look like it's unclaimed.
I assume you mean "mentioned" as in, by AN?

Side note/to all: We have to expand Redhill eastward to get it to it, but it should be largely available, though closer to the NowConsumed!TS and thus significantly easier to raid as we expand further that way.
 
To be entirely honest, what I figured you guys were going to do was take the Tribute option, grab iron, and then kick the nomads teeth after a turn or two when they no longer had a hero leading them and you had iron while they had stone. I did not expect at all that the thread would collectively go berserk.
You don't put a long fuse on a small bomb.
 
Was it ever confirmed that our world is a replica of earth? Because all this "not!russia (or not!anything)" and "oh wow an inland sea!" stuff is very annoying if this is an original land.

Judge shit by its own merits? Please?

I'm basing things off of Earth geography, but also changing things up to suit narrative needs and develop surprises. Some things are vaguely based off of certain things, but as an example the climate of the People is warmer than actual Georgia, so there's a bunch of other differences already. However, when people in the thread ask for scaling and the like, it is now somewhat easier to point at real world locations and go "Roughly that".
 
I'm basing things off of Earth geography, but also changing things up to suit narrative needs and develop surprises. Some things are vaguely based off of certain things, but as an example the climate of the People is warmer than actual Georgia, so there's a bunch of other differences already. However, when people in the thread ask for scaling and the like, it is now somewhat easier to point at real world locations and go "Roughly that".
Is my math a page ago accurate? Is the nomad-free zone roughly 1/3 the size of the united states?
 
I wouldn't mind a North East March, actually - serious expansion in that direction might be a non-starter, but if we set that up we'd be fully protected from bullshit nomad invasions in the future.


I've always been suspicious of the belief we'd figured out exactly where we are - I half expect that AN made our local area like Georgia, but the World Map isn't going to look anything like Earth at all.


Yeah, I'm not sure why East hasn't been mentioned as viable - the map makes it look like it's unclaimed.
It's because the Expansion Issue *spits in disgust* is Polarized between Steppe vs Lowlands. Both are hideously icky clusterfucks. The Steppe is a very resource poor area, like on terrain classifications a steppe is not far above a desert in human habitability rating and has Nomads all over the everything. The North Lowlands below the East hills are about as fertile as Stonepen and Northshore were before we moved in, but risks the fighting.

Meh.

I also dearly want a NE March. I've been campaigning for the NE March before it was even an option I think. Several hundred pages at least. Combo-ed with our new Baby NW March it completely shuts the route the Khan Duo took to fuck us over. It also shields our inner gooey shinnies from the North entirely like a nice Spiky Kappa shell. They have to go a looooong way around, and into the meatgrinder of the Lowlands to get to us. They'd probably end up poking the HK by accident. And I hear them Highlanders fight like enraged bears.

The East is really good for us. From there it gives a bedrock solid base to expand wherever we want. Also, this animosity to the Thunder Horse confuses me a little now that I think about it. They have never explicitly attacked us, just their idiot vassals. Why not trade with the Thunder Horse and make them our friends so we don't have to worry about fighting them?
 
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Part of scarring them is that by taking the stability hits the People demonstrate a psychotic tenacity to win that would leave lasting scars in the social psyche of those it was directed at. It's not enough to just throw lots of Martial actions at them (although they will be talking about this fight for centuries to come), it's also about throwing everything at them.

I would imagine we would get a rather terrifying trait from such an action. Most likely one we wouldn't like much. Still, the temptation to build up to it is there, certainly
...
 
So I eyeballed the region we depopulated relative to the Black Sea ... If my guess is correct we depopulated the entire region from the Caspian to the Metal Workers.
 
To be entirely honest, what I figured you guys were going to do was take the Tribute option, grab iron, and then kick the nomads teeth after a turn or two when they no longer had a hero leading them and you had iron while they had stone. I did not expect at all that the thread would collectively go berserk.
Weregild invites more problems in the long run, better suffer some temporary pain now...
 
Hurray someone who also thinks the east is good for expansion plans. It's really good in fact. We can push east and turtle along as we go, good luck digging us out. We can even fortify "under fire" so to speak with our policies and such. We only need a secondary War Mission really in support of our provinces and we can spend the rest on Econ, tech, and Forting everything to Crow's Beak and back.
The biggest, baddest people we've met are to the East. Moving that way risks having to constantly feed them actions, because the neighbors are jerks. Settling West means that a navy can be used to connect things.

Now if TH implodes you'll get more takers. If they rattle sabers a eastern March looks good. As it is taking the SW hills is just easier seeming with no nearby empire in the way.
Yeah, I'm not sure why East hasn't been mentioned as viable - the map makes it look like it's unclaimed.
Simple really. Building East is towards the Thunder Horse who just opened up a relationship/vassal slot by eating the Thunder Speakers. Being not worth the logistics effect to vassalize due to distance is a good starter defense. Even HK stopped expanding east for a bit once that annexing happened. Apparently, fortifying as you go was discarded in favor of More Land!

Remember to the East is all lowlanders and ascended nomads. Settling is currently considered the art of dodging the most stupid.... which is why this Civ builds tall and the rest tend towards building wide.
 
So I eyeballed the region we depopulated relative to the Black Sea ... If my guess is correct we depopulated the entire region from the Caspian to the Metal Workers.
About the size of modern Kazakhstan if I don't miss my guess.


[X] [Main] Build Iron Mine
[X] [Secondary] Change Policy - Balanced
[X] [Secondary] Grand Sacrifice



We have a map? Where?
*sigh* Look on the front page in one of AN's posts under "Better Strategic Map".
 
I'll point out this very update proved that's an incredibly stupid line of thought. Because the more we depopulate the steppe around us the more nomad tribes are going to be curious and come to check out the locale. They were peaceful traders this time, but mass nomad genocide is just as likely to bring a distant khan down on our heads as anything else. Until you can outright exterminate the nomads and chase them down into the steppe- it's just not viable. Foreign tribes will come knocking, the tribes fleeing will replenish and turn their exodus into a legend, and when they return- the steppes will still be shitty, hard to defend marginal pastoral land because we're not made of Terra Preta and the action economy involved in landscaping steppes is utterly obscene.

People keep insisting it can be done when AN basically laughed and said come back when you have reliable communication over thousands of miles. We'd essentially need telegraphs, and even that would be nigh impossible to manage because nomads can just cut the cables.

You're patting yourself on the back for advocating centuries of some of the worst assymetrical warfare out there and calling it an ingenious colonization plan. It's nuts, only made worse when the geographical jewel of civilization is in easy reach.
Yeah that's a stupid idea.

It is incredibly hard for Sedentary Societies to expand into Steppes, even if they kill/subdue all the nomad tribes. Because steppes are too inhospitable for that.

For example see the Han-Xiongu Wars and the Tang Dynasty's subjugation of the Tibetan Nomadic Empire, the Uighurs Khanates and the Turkish Steppe Empires. In all cases, the most effective method they found of dealing with the aftermath was essentially just doing what we did with the Stallions and when we used salt to bait nomads, splitting up the once great Empires into rival tribes and turning strategically important portions into loyal vassals.
To be entirely honest, what I figured you guys were going to do was take the Tribute option, grab iron, and then kick the nomads teeth after a turn or two when they no longer had a hero leading them and you had iron while they had stone.
Aka: How the Han kicked the shit out of the Xiongu.

Well, less Stone/Iron, and more Shit out two Han Hero Units to lead a total war campaign of genocide into the steppes
 
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Is my math a page ago accurate? Is the nomad-free zone roughly 1/3 the size of the united states?

There may have been exaggeration, and you don't even have a full half circle because everything to the south is untouched, but yes, its a massive area where between you and the heroes you displaced or killed the vast majority of the population.

About the size of modern Kazakhstan if I don't miss my guess.

That sounds about right for the upper end of the estimate, yes.
 
Actually wait no Kazakhstan is probably too big. Call it half that and leave it at that. Oh AN said that was the upper limit, hum, yeah just put it in the middle and call it good.

Yeah that's a stupid idea.

It is incredibly hard for Sedentary Societies to expand into Steppes, even if they kill/subdue all the nomad tribes. Because steppes are too inhospitable for that.

For example see the Han-Xiongu Wars and the Tang Dynasty's subjugation of the Tibetan Nomadic Empire, the Uighurs Kanates and the Turkish Steppe Empires. In all cases, the most effective method they found of dealing with the aftermath was essentially just doing what we did with the Stallions and when we used salt to bait nomads, splitting up the once great Empires into rival tribes and turning strategically important portions into loyal vassals.

Aka: How the Han kicked the shit out of the Xiongu.

Well, less Stone/Iron, and more Shit out two Han Hero Units to lead a total war campaign of genocide into the steppes
You seem really knowledgeable about situations similar to the one we face right now Deadly. Care to detail why the hills to the east are probably our best bet, even with the Thunder Speakers out that way?
 
To be entirely honest, what I figured you guys were going to do was take the Tribute option, grab iron, and then kick the nomads teeth after a turn or two when they no longer had a hero leading them and you had iron while they had stone. I did not expect at all that the thread would collectively go berserk.
@Lailoken was right yet again!

And me. I supported him. That means I'm right by association.
 
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