If theres nothing on fire(somehow), I'd probably push for the following combo given our current statline:
Minor suggestion to maintain a 3+ Prestige buffer between creating new states, though not an issue at present, we don't want to risk a Prestige loss/expense dropping one.
Highlights:
Mentioned that we need additional Black Soil if we want to make Redhill, Badlands and Northshore non-shit producitivity. It's also needed for any major forest growth projects.
And since the initial step to the Cement/Concrete Pottery Sub Tech Tree is invariable we will find it eventually through sheer human "Hey what does this do?"Not that different. You find a nearby river and build a limited channel to draw water from it.
The reason there is that walls/towers generate multiple rolls, so thats the route to go for incremental progress. It won't get you concrete in one shot but it would develop
Dam gives you one big roll, but if you don't have the ingredients(Kiln, Limestone, suitable filler), you'd simply develop something else as the solution entirely, and a large investment. People have built dams with no more complex mortar than mud
That's one thing I definitely missed. Still need the limestone though. If we have limestone available via Survey, then yes, a Main Art Patronage would probably discover something. As would Study Metal(Limestone makes smelting iron from the ore that much easier).
Yep.
Basic steps to Mortar now, revised:
1) Obtain Limestone. We will know it as the "white stone", "flowing stone" and the bitter water. Shells and corals do not provide usable quantities for production, but potentially can be substituted for limestone in stage 2 and 3 with luck.
-This is a necessary prerequisite
-This is unlikely to be traded for. Nobody would trade it since it's rock and bulky.
-This can only be found by Survey. It can be discovered without knowledge of it's utility in metal extraction or mortar production, as limestone is an attractive construction material.
2) Learn that Limestone transforms to lime when under dry heat
-This is an optional prerequisite, it can be discovered by accident during the smelting of ore, manufacture of bricks or baking of pottery.
-This can be Traded for potentially. The Xohyssiri may have the technology, as might any metalworking faction.
-This can be obtained through Art Patronage, if you have limestone, as limestone gets experimented on for as glazing materials.
-This can be obtained through Study Metal, if you have limestone, as limestone gets experimented on as a potential metal ore(due to being colored, besides, it's technically calcium ore).
-This has a low chance of being obtained through the study of mine tailings, as using limestone based pits will cause a vigorous and alarming reaction to prompt further research
3) Learn that Lime reacts with other materials to form cement/concrete.
-This is an optional prerequisite, it can be discovered by accident during the same time as Step 2.
-This is unlikely to be traded for as the reaction of lime will not be something that foreigners will be seeing. However a spy mission is not impossible with more Blackbirds.
-This can be obtained through any major construction project once Lime is discovered. The bigger the project, the more likely. Projects involving water or tall constructions have a boosted rate:
--Main/Double Main Walls
--Main/Double Main Towers
--Main/Double Main Trails
--Main/Double Main Snails
--Dam
--Aqueduct
--Saltern
-This can be obtained through Art Patronage via glazing experiments.
-This can be obtained through Study Metal via smelting experiments.
As such, you can see only the initial step is invariable. You need the stone to do anything else. But once you have it, it's merely a matter of time to notice.
? Or is it just melt your hand off, can't quite remember.I checked:
Foams vigorously, produces alarming fumes.Heh isn't the reaction of CaO and SO2 "energetic"
What's the other half for a blast furnace?
I could go for that, but I'd much prefer Expansion to Balanced assuming the Nomads look like they're not going to be back for a few turns.
Agreed. I'd put that under critical stats once we actually grabbed the next state. Prestige 3 at 2 states, Prestige 13 at 3. (Given our +1 state Honor Code)
Coke, made from coal in an oxygen-free oven. We aren't getting that so easily, though China was using it since 400 AD
The problem is Expansion policy will aggressively pursue the construction of settlements, of which all our remaining sites are in raid zones. It makes us far less defensible.
At least most of the cultural issues we had with the stallions solved themselves (Thanks Nomads, You are still fucking assholes!). The refugee integration though is very important to deal with, so I'd suggest taking Festivals after we absorb some. Which should be soon.
They are able to fuse actions, but we have been told that Balanced significantly prefers separate [Secondary] actions.
They have no reason/or real ability outside of Restoration Policy to spend Art unlike Mysticism so I think we need to max that one to get a Diplo/Art Golden Age. That'd probably help a lot with lime mortar -> cement -> concrete. Especially if we start the Dam during the Golden Age and found Limestone just before and have Progress Policy going. Really it should not be hard to drop a secondary Art Patronage every turn or so till we get there. And using Art Patronage while Proclaiming Glory just makes sense.
Actually, that's why we SHOULD use Balanced. Balanced will prefer actions with low to no costs, and will passively take advantage of opportunities we overlooked. We've been on Focused for a long time as well, so the minor issues are piling up.
Could we threadmark this? Or have it indexed with the other omakes somewhere?And since the initial step to the Cement/Concrete Pottery Sub Tech Tree is invariable we will find it eventually through sheer human "Hey what does this do?"
We are in a really really good place to find limestone because of fluctuating sea level in the Not!Black Sea. We need to look for it near Bleeding Cliffs I think, because I very vaguely remember it being described as "White stone with bleeding red", or an equivalent.
Heh isn't the reaction of CaO and SO2 "energetic"
Also have a very stupid Omake.
Omake:
Spirits Discuss Liquid Stone
In the folds of the material world where spirits hide from mortal sight, there is a fire, great and roaring red.
Around this bonfire sit a beetle made of pieces of interlocked Eastern Copper constantly clicking and rotating, a woman wearing a very strange hat and robe, a woman with pointed ears and purple hair with a face of strange proportions, and a being that resembled a thunderstorm over the coast. Others flutter in the background, insubstantial. Merely interested.
"So," Says the pointy eared woman. "Isn't there a plan floating around for Liquid Stone?"
"Yes! Someone fish that out of the pile!" Cries an enthusiastic male voice from the thunderstorm. "That's up next."
The beetle chimes in with an inquisitive and knowledgeable masculine voice. "They have all the pieces. They need to build bigger things though. More walls and more towers to keep themselves safe from the *horrific screeching* Nomads." He? He nods, legs working at something unseen. "They need to find the White Stone/Flowing Stone/Bitter Water first by surveying, while building towers. This will lead them to finding the Binding Stone."
He continues. "Alternatively they may be forced to come up with it all at once if they already have the White Stone when they build the Dam. Probably not though, they'd come up with better ways to fit stone together with their new tools. It's also risky and very expensive." He sighs, tinkling sounds like water in a brook.
A cat like spirit pops it's head into the light. "I'd say the Dam is pretty safe for them to try. But still ludicrously expensive."
The cat spirit flutters away, statement made. The woman in the hat looks on with mild interest as he goes to another more distant fire where a very relaxed spirit with black pits for eyes and three beings as one, one blue, one brown and one black join the cat. Snatches of discussion about "... long raised tunnels to..." and "...transport clean water." are heard.
The beetle responds as the cat leaves. "There are many ways to make it. What is needed for Binding Stone is thus..." He rises up into the light and begins to recite in a perfectly pitched voice.
The Binding Stone~
Will form as these mix in Harmony
The Flowing White Stone... to give Strength
The Many Small Grains... to Bind
The fluid Sea... to Flow
The Many as One~
He relaxes. "They need this for buildings proof against the Sea and to build tall enough to reach the Clouds."
The woman in the hat looks up from the fire, seeming weary. Words tumble from her lips, in a male voice. She addresses the thundercloud, naming him in a word not grasped. "<Motoko> They need to look to the Pottery and clay they already have found." She looks around and begins to speak in a rambling manner. "To find the Clear Stone or the Liquid Stone or the Binding Stone is much the same. For they share the same ingredients but differ in Creation. Clear Stone or Binding Stone would be discovered by accident first." She leans forwards, seeming to take knowledge directly from the fire, strange symbols possibly seen in the flames. She begins to recite as well, starting and stopping strangely.
The Binding Stone... and Liquid Stone
Are of the Sphere... Same..
The Binding Stone IS Many Small Grains
As one
While the Liquid Stone IS... Few Big Grains
As one
Ground White Stone... heated...
and the Sea with Many Small Grains
Is... Binding Stone
Liquid Stone...
Liquid Stone...
When Few Big Grains are mixed with the powers
Binding Stone
and the flowing Sea
Liquid Stone is Birthed
However...
When Binding Stone IS
Many Few... Grains can sometimes
Arrange themselves... as Clear Stone through the Spirit of Fire's
...mischief
She leans back again, rubbing a hand over her face. "They should look to their Arts and The Snails in the Sea. The snails make their shells from a form of White Stone. White Stone is needed in large quantities and perhaps in their Searches they may find where the Spirits of Fire within the Black Burning Ooze formed their own Binding Stone."
"Many towers and walls will lead to the idea in a slow, purposeful manner. But will they find it soon enough?" She sighs. "The Raised Water Bridges will entice them to think very carefully about such things, because such projects must last. And Liquid Stone lasts when done right." She raises a hand in a strange half shrug. "And then the Forgotten Dam could be attempted. More as not they will simply build better and cut Stone finer than any of their ancestors. Binding Stone is an enigmatic thing to them. Perhaps the Aspect of Dormthun will reach out and touch one when they must build the Dam with Skill. Only the *completely indecipherable not-sounds* will know if that remnant will act again."
She curls around herself, laying on her side. "I have not rested in a long while. Farewell my fellows, for a time." The woman in the strange hat wisps away in a cloud of words of little meaning.
The beetle nods, returning from a conversation with the relaxed spirit and says to the air the woman inhabited a moment ago. "Yes that is quite true that the Way lies in Art. I had forgotten. Thank you. The study of the Starmetal will also be of aid to them, because the White Stone helps in the process of Refinement." He nods again. "Agreed about the Dam. To find the Binding Stone, they must first find the White Stone. That is the Key. And they can only find it by Searching and looking to the coasts. Perhaps the Shells will substitute, though the quantities are very small and less useful because of it."
"Then they must find how White Stone transforms under the Spirit of Fire when the Spirits of Sea and Water are not present. Perhaps the Ones who Live in Xohyr, who we have detested in ages past might know of this method?" He shrugs many shoulders. "Studying the Arts and Starmetal, perhaps they think it a metal ore for it's lustrous color? They should be wary of studying the waste from the Copper and mixing it with the White Stone. The spirits within these materials do not get along." All the spirits around the fire cringe a little.
"After that there is only them to stumble upon the process by accident. If the Sea and tall things are involved, they will find it quicker. For the Sea is an eager teacher. So eager it is sometimes lethal." He tilts his head. "Oh perhaps their Salterns can help them find it as well. The glazes and Refinement of metal are the doors to the Way."
As the Spirits watch the fire between them die, the vision fades.
Caerwyn's eyes flash open. The light from the door in her home, hammers into her skull like a demon. "Uuggghhh..." Tottering up the old shaman walks out into her yard, staring out at the storm brewing over the distant sea, the snail divers just starting to go for their catches as the sun rose. Rubbing both hands vigorously the very sick feeling shaman tries to organize what strange Knowledge is floating around in her head like a cloud of angry bees. Muttering the things she remembers out as she paces and runs her hands through her grey hair.
"Liquid Stone?" This makes absolutely no sense to her. Stone is a solid, it does not act like water. What are the Spirits on about this time? Moving on, she thinks.
"Binding Stone will form in Harmony... from the Flowing White Stone and The Many Small Grains with the Sea... The Many as One~" Binding Stone? There are instances where clay can bind things. But this is something else. What do grains have to do with this?
"We must build to the Clouds and ware the Sea..." Building to the clouds? That's right impossible. But bewaring the Sea is just sense.
"Liquid Stone is of the Sphere as Binding Stone? What?" She shakes her head and sits heavily on the bench outside her door, rubbing at the massive headache, trying to sort out the gygo in her head. Sphere makes no sense, what does it refer to? A way the spirits organize the world? How is binding related to liquid?
She gets up and heads inside, grabbing fresh clay and water and a stylus. She settles on the floor near her fire pit, resting the clay on a block of wood put there for this purpose, and begins to write what she remembers from her dream/vision. As she does more phrases are knocked loose.
"Ground White Stone heated... and the Sea... IS Binding Stone? Liquid Stone is When Few Big Grains are mixed with... something, Clear Stone? ... No, aghh..."
"White Stone is found by the Sea..."
"Many Small Grains... IS Binding Stone? Liquid Stone IS Few Large Grains?" She tilts her head, possibilities and a whole heap of confusion coming together as the mess starts to sort itself out.
"Liquid Stone is Birthed when Few Large Grains mix with something and the Flowing Sea." Okay... This is kinda making sense. Somehow mixing the "Large Grains" and the Sea with something else, probably Binding Stone or maybe Clear Stone, whatever those are can make a stone that flows like water. Is it like the Bleeding Stone that becomes Starmetal?
She chews a nail on her thumb, stylus in her left hand. "Hmmmm... Well, Clear Stone is related to Binding Stone... Though it escapes me how they are." She remembers something suddenly and writes down 'Binding stone means building to Clouds and ware Sea', cramming it into the margin of the otherwise neatly filled clay tablet.
Sighing the old woman leans back, the last vestiges of the dream/vision fading. I regret taking Faerwyn up on his dare. Damn that old goat and his brews. But... this bears study, as it is obviously the spirits work.
She remembers a flash that the Starmetal is somehow related to the White Stone. Perhaps I should discuss this with Colmun. He is more knowledgeable in the Ways of metal spirits than I. First though, make sure that Crow shat headache stays gone.
The old woman sets about her self appointed task, humming a merry tune about a trick Crow played on a mischievous child.
I had this in my head when I went to take a nap and it amused me so much to imagine Spirits representing us having a conversation about "Liquid Stone" That I just had to share. I hope no one minds that I adapted their posts a bit into a spirit dialogue.
Let me know if I had any really stupid grammar errors or something please.
Noting we could overflow art just by not spending it since Diplomacy is maxed and not going to drop for very long.
Grab some surveys first, to maximize returns. Can't experiment with materials you don't have.
