- Location
- United States
Nah the rule is that Eldritch Lore has to have an AB no higher than that of Depression.
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
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- Tags
- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard open voting
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
It's not a matter of wiggle room. That Akatsuki are making these claims is a fact. You can disagree with their claims, but that's not relevant to the issue of me correcting a misunderstanding about what the claims are.
Iris-Iven-Ibis
Interested-Idiot-Immortal
- Location
- You know
Them making that claim honestly doesn't really matter as long as it looks like they're using and if given the opportunity they would frame the leader of a village no less it doesn't really sound that good for the stability of Amity
- Location
- U.S.
... Is the Hokage killing one of their own shinobi even a AMITY violation? Is it even a crime at all in Leaf?
The entire reason this became a AMITY issue is because we thought that ninja from another AMITY member killed Akane, right?
But... the Hokage is, A: a military dictator, and B: is expected to send their shinobi to danger or death for the good of Leaf. Technically speaking, it might not even be a crime if Asuma had killed Akane. At the very least, it must be a internal Leaf criminal matter and not a AMITY issue, right?
The entire reason this became a AMITY issue is because we thought that ninja from another AMITY member killed Akane, right?
But... the Hokage is, A: a military dictator, and B: is expected to send their shinobi to danger or death for the good of Leaf. Technically speaking, it might not even be a crime if Asuma had killed Akane. At the very least, it must be a internal Leaf criminal matter and not a AMITY issue, right?
- Location
- Yes.
It's an AMITY issue because Leaf involved AMITY. From Akatsuki's perspective, Asuma killed Akane and then involved Akatsuki to hunt her killers down under the pretense of an AMITY violation, which could have catastrophically violent consequences if Hidan/Kakuzu got into a conflict with another Hidden Village.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
To expand on this, if Asuma hired Akatsuki knowing that they wouldn't catch anyone because he was the real killer, that means he wanted one of the following to happen: 1) Akatsuki don't find anyone, meaning they waste their time, lose face, and lose credibility because they just failed to punish an AMITY violation or 2) Akatsuki mistakenly identify and kill a ninja from another village and thereby themselves commit an AMITY violation.
- Location
- United States
- Location
- U.S.
Okay, I can understand that reasoning, but I can still see how the other Villages might not like this turn of events.
If they're being charitable to Asuma's intelligence and have a good understanding of the sequence of events, Asuma got framed for trying to use Akatsuki to attack another village, and Akatsuki handled it poorly, got in a fight and lost, and then demanded ruinous reparations from Leaf.
If they aren't being charitable to Asuma, then Asuma tried to frame another village, Akatsuki tried to arrest him, he resisted arrest, a fight broke out and ended up with Leaf paying ruinous reparations.
So, the second conclusion isn't too bad. But the first one does not look good at all. So, I think it'll come down to 'how much do other villages learn about the situation, and what do they think of Asuma'.
- Location
- U.S.
Actually wait. You could argue that whoever did the framing should be responsible for all of this. It's like felony murder.
As a counter example, if Asuma had both attempted and succeeded in framing another Village, resulting in a fight when Hidan attempted a 'investigation' under false pretenses in that Village, it wouldn't make any sense to sanction that Village for fighting back if it was later discovered that they had been framed. That was the entire intent of the original crime; if you level sanctions, that means framing people works. That even if you're caught, it still succeeds at hurting your enemy. Do you know how many ninja, or even villages, would take that trade?
The only possible way for that to make sense is if the consequences to the person who did the framing are much worse. And in some situations, that's practically impossible - if a Village did it, then you'd pretty much have to annihilate them outright to make it 'worse'. If a independent agent managed to frame a Village, though... what would you even do? Torture them for ten thousand years?
As a counter example, if Asuma had both attempted and succeeded in framing another Village, resulting in a fight when Hidan attempted a 'investigation' under false pretenses in that Village, it wouldn't make any sense to sanction that Village for fighting back if it was later discovered that they had been framed. That was the entire intent of the original crime; if you level sanctions, that means framing people works. That even if you're caught, it still succeeds at hurting your enemy. Do you know how many ninja, or even villages, would take that trade?
The only possible way for that to make sense is if the consequences to the person who did the framing are much worse. And in some situations, that's practically impossible - if a Village did it, then you'd pretty much have to annihilate them outright to make it 'worse'. If a independent agent managed to frame a Village, though... what would you even do? Torture them for ten thousand years?
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
I feel certain that if find the person responsible all geopolitical parties will be reasonable and --
Ahahahah, can't keep a straight face.
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Remember the geopolitics, too. Since this will be presented to them post-facto, with the conclusion already reached, their first thought will be on whether they like that outcome instead of whether they endorse the methods by which it was reached.
Akatsuki's statement is that the ruinous reparations are exclusively for Kakuzu's death, which they treat as a separate incident from Asuma's alleged violation. We saw in the Itachi negotiation that they consider Asuma's death adequate punishment for the AMITY violation itself, and that is what they will be telling the other AMITY members first and foremost.
So consider from that angle: you have heard that Asuma allegedly attempted to violate AMITY by maliciously manipulating the Akatsuki, and the punishment for that was his death. Factions such as Rock and Cloud, who hate Leaf, will no doubt internally rejoice at the news before turning their attention to the rest of the implications. Namely, until now AMITY's been waiting with bated breath for the first real violation to see how much teeth AMITY has, and this result pins an obvious expectation in everyone's minds: if your Kage is guilty of violating AMITY, your Kage will die. This is a steep penalty, and still incomplete (what if it's not the Kage who's guilty?), but it more firmly describes an upper limit: AMITY won't demand a village's destruction for one violation, just the life of one of its strongest heroes.
Consider being a representative of Cloud, of Mist, of Rock, hearing that and re-assessing AMITY in light of it. This is certainly not a toothless penalty, you know yourself that if the same happened in your own village it would be considered an utter tragedy. But it's also not so terrifying as to be an existential threat to your village's overall safety: indeed, you would be aware that every other village would revile the idea of their Kage being killed, and accordingly everyone will tread very carefully where AMITY violations are concerned. Between the clear deterrence effect and the lack of existential risk, staying within AMITY would if anything seem more wise. It is theoretically safe as long as you mind the rules, and if you left you would be bereft of its protection: all these villages suddenly unwilling to risk overt moves against each other now have a target they can strike at with impunity.
And you, as a representative of whichever village, will know that your counterparts are thinking much the same thing, themselves reinforcing their bindings to AMITY. This is the angle you will be analyzing the rest of the Asuma situation from: the knowledge that this precedent likely binds everyone closer to AMITY, including yourself. You would become extremely interested in due process, not to ensure that justice is done for the Asuma case but to ensure that your village is safe so long as it stays within the lines. Whether Asuma himself is guilty or innocent... well, that tells you interseting and important things, but it'd be a secondary matter. The open question would fuel rhetoric around Hidan's hasty judgement, which would become discourse on what the proper procedures ought to look like, and that is much more close to home as it pertains to how they themselves can expect to be treated in the future.
It's hard to say what will actually happen as a result of that, but I'm pretty confident the resulting AMITY debates will have little to do with the representatives' personal opinions on whether Asuma was framed or not. The sheer possibility that he was - that someone might attempt to frame their own Kage in the future - would be sufficient to spur precautions against such things in the future, regardless how Asuma's case actually turns out.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
That is actually within Akatsuki's capabilities.
- Pronouns
- She/Her/They/Them
ITACHI: This overuse of my eyes has severely deteriorated my sight...
LEAF: *breathes a sigh of relief*
THE HIVEMIND: [X] Bribe Akatsuki With ES Glasses
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
I get that. Akatsuki are essentially cops demanding bribes to not write Leaf up for a crime, except the crime is killing a cop and the punishment is collective death penalty.
Problem is, the cops shot first due to the suspect supposedly resisting arrest, except the arrest happened irregularly, with violence being initiated by the cop without anyone ever saying "you're under arrest".
Essentially, Akatsuki is just shit at policing. Several of their members have the emotional maturity of spoiled children and the rest are enabling them.
Akatsuki is relying on the claim that Asuma was resisting arrest by defending himself against Hidan's mental onslaught and thus lethal force was acceptable. The counter to that is that it didn't look anything like arresting procedure. They were still in the questioning phase and never told Asuma to submit to a legal arrest.
Their next claim is that even if that were the case, Kakuzu was an illegitimate self-defense target, because he didn't kill Asuma. But with that there are multiple issues:
- Kakuzu himself used the mental onslaught that gave Hidan the opening.
- Akatsuki is an AMITY signatory like Leaf is. If there is collective responsibility for nations then the same applies to Akatsuki.
- If the attempt to arrest Asuma was illegitimate, which doesn't really have anything to do with Asuma's guilt, then each side has perpetrated AMITY violations.
- If Asuma is innocent, then both committed an equal amount of AMITY violations and Akatsuki did so first.
- Except that in that case Leaf's AMITY violation can't really be one because else that would mean that if a force of ten Rock ninja walks into Leaf and five of them start shooting people, then Leaf isn't allowed to kill the other five that are standing right next to the shooters until AMITY sends someone, even if those five who aren't shooting are doing their best to protect the five shooters from harm.
- Location
- UK
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't think this is a line of argument Leaf wants to pursue. It means that if Leaf was justified in attacking Kakuzu, then it is currently at war with the entirety of Akatsuki.
- Location
- Australia
Signed up (and cancelled) the 40 AUD tier. Just post it in the thread when it's done
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
I think that it would mean the entirety of AMITY is at war with Akatsuki. It is unclear whether the surviving members would care. Certainly they are posturing as though they could defeat the Elemental Nations in detail, if perhaps not in a direct slugfest.
- Location
- Yes.
CLOUD, ROCK et al: Imma dip out.
- Location
- Europa, Jupiter Orbit
It's the argument Akatsuki is pursuing. That the entirety of Akatsuki was wronged and should be at war with Leaf, but in their mercy decide to make it a private matter to be handled between the two before officially bringing AMITY into it.
Otherwise, what's the alternative interpretation? That Akatsuki each signed as individual members of equal standing as a nation? And that, because Hidan blabbed to them before telling any other AMITY member and they all consider each other allies, each one of them (except Deidara) has to be individually bribed to prevent even more independent AMITY members from finding out about what Leaf did? By that metric each one of them is independently deciding to cover for Leaf in its crime of murdering the innocent AMITY signatory Kakuzu. If it were to ever come out (and how can it not) then other signatories would have to think that Akatsuki, whose members all were given special status as individual signatories not necessarily representing nations and as enforcers, can be bribed to not care about an AMITY violation. And if the actual bribes ever become known then AMITY members will also know how arbitrary they are. Konan's demands are the only crippling ones. Sasori's are steep but doable and relative to a nation's power. Hidan's is stupid. Itachi and Kisame are wildcards demanding non-replicable stuff. And Deidara literally is willing to not do his AMITY appointed job for free if his friends ask him to. Who is to say any of them would demand something different if one of them were to find out that, say, a Kage managed to eradicate a whole minor AMITY member nation and left no credible witnesses?
I know that this is all mired in realpolitik due to preexisting organizations and relative power levels. But this whole thing sets precedents that are a quagmire if not addressed, regardless of which interpretation of the events one chooses to go with. This case is the first test of the institution and apparently it is already in need of dire reforms. I can easily see the other nations saying something along the lines of "okay, we weren't adequately prepared for an actually complicated AMITY violation to happen so let's let this stand as is, but we can't let it count as precedent either and need to all come together to polish and re-ratify the treaty". But I can't see them just accepting Akatsuki's narrative as officially valid and in need of no further discussion and collective decision making.
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Yeah, I'm still not fully following the geopolitics of Akatsuki claiming an amity violation for Asuma's investigation. My understanding is that Akatsuki's claim is:
- Leaf committed an Amity violation by hiring Akatsuki for the Akane investigation if Asuma had Akane killed
- Leaf killed Kakuzu which demands repayment
- They're willing to consider Asuma's death valid payment for the Amity violation (which is them being nice) and will accept exorbitant payment as recompense for Kakuzu's death.
But It seems like every reasonable observer (Kakuzu and Itachi included) admits that Hidan's interpretation "Asuma himself had Akane killed and then was a complete idiot in how he handled the evidence" has major holes in it. But without that, it becomes hard to argue for any Amity violation (he resisted arrest? Is that even an amity violation? And given the sloppiness of Hidan's approach and his random attack it sure doesn't seem like it was an official arrest anyway).
And if Akatsuki's official accusation is just doubling down on Hidan's dumb accusation and then demanding exorbitant reparations, it looks quite plainly like what Tsunade said: "simple robbery at kunai-point". Which should tank their credibility on the international stage and have every other major village wondering if they're next.
All that being said: winning the necromancy race and resurrecting Pain is maybe worth simply mugging Leaf for Hazou's necro notes, politics be damned.
- Leaf committed an Amity violation by hiring Akatsuki for the Akane investigation if Asuma had Akane killed
- Leaf killed Kakuzu which demands repayment
- They're willing to consider Asuma's death valid payment for the Amity violation (which is them being nice) and will accept exorbitant payment as recompense for Kakuzu's death.
But It seems like every reasonable observer (Kakuzu and Itachi included) admits that Hidan's interpretation "Asuma himself had Akane killed and then was a complete idiot in how he handled the evidence" has major holes in it. But without that, it becomes hard to argue for any Amity violation (he resisted arrest? Is that even an amity violation? And given the sloppiness of Hidan's approach and his random attack it sure doesn't seem like it was an official arrest anyway).
And if Akatsuki's official accusation is just doubling down on Hidan's dumb accusation and then demanding exorbitant reparations, it looks quite plainly like what Tsunade said: "simple robbery at kunai-point". Which should tank their credibility on the international stage and have every other major village wondering if they're next.
All that being said: winning the necromancy race and resurrecting Pain is maybe worth simply mugging Leaf for Hazou's necro notes, politics be damned.
- Location
- Fifth Dimension
I think people arguing against Akatsuki are forgetting the basic rule of Might makes Right. Akatsuki can say whatever they want because they can crush any individual village with apparent ease. Even a combination of all the villages ended with most of the Kages dying. The villages now have much less Kage/S-Class level ninja than they had when they achieved a pyrrhic victory. It...would not go well.
Worse for each village, is that they have enemies who wouldn't join in and happily cackle and drink to the death of their enemies.
Worse for each village, is that they have enemies who wouldn't join in and happily cackle and drink to the death of their enemies.
They're stronger and upset because they lost Kakuzu. Leaf is therefore being robbed at kunai point and it's legal because everyone else wants Leaf taken down a peg.
The hidden village systems have existed for a brief period of time as a compromise solution to one of the Shinobi World Wars. The Elemental Nations do not exist within any legal or political framework that we would consider reasonable at any level from local to international. Furthermore every observer that has a say in international politics is a Leaf rival and incentivized to want Leaf taken down a peg.
Chapter 619, Part 6: Constrained Futures
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
"Is this your final answer, Gōketsu?" Itachi asked. "Understand that your own rift research is over. Akatsuki will not tolerate any action that may interfere with Nagato's rescue. You would be far better off hastening the day of the Dragons' demise and your loved ones' salvation by assisting Sasori than herding recalcitrant summons or wrestling with sealing projects far beyond your grasp."
Was that Hazō's final answer? Was there any path, any path at all, on which he could work with Akatsuki without making sacrifices he couldn't accept? Or would it be a mistake even to look for one?
"I think," he said slowly, "that this looks like a binary choice, but my whole life has been about finding third and better options. Before I give you an answer, would you mind getting Ami? I have an idea but I suspect I'll need her expertise to make it workable." Mentally, he crossed his fingers, hoping this would land the way he needed.
Itachi frowned. "You want me to scurry off and fetch that manipulative shrew? Why exactly would I do that?"
That definitely did not sound like it was landing the way he needed.
"My thought is that we turn this into an AMITY project," he said. "I could probably do it on my own. Sasori can probably do it on his own. Do you want to bet on 'probably'? Let's get every sealmaster in the world working on it. If nothing else, it will prevent the sort of political and military upheaval that will result from only one faction having control of resurrection." Itachi's expression grew more thunderous, so Hazō hurried to add, "I get it. It's an ask, I know. And yes, Ami is polarizing. Still, set that aside and give the idea a fair shake."
Itachi's eyes began to glow very faintly red and his breathing deliberately smoothed out. When he spoke his voice was worryingly calm. "You have fifteen seconds to convince me that it's worth humoring you."
No pressure. "Okay," Hazō said. "Think about the value that's on the table right now. Do you need my help? Probably not. Sasori is good at his job, I'm sure. Still, you should want my help. I stood at the Great Seal, a creation of the Sage, with Orochimaru beside me and he spoke to me as an equal. My bloodline lets me do things other sealmasters can't. I am directly responsible for the death of an eldritch abomination that Clan Bosses were afraid to tangle with. I'm worth a conversation with Ami."
Itachi's breathing was ragged, calm an inch from breaking. The absence of words hovered in the air, what would otherwise have been silence broken by the far-off grinding of bloody wheels coming closer as the missing-nin struggled to master himself.
"Your self-aggrandizing opinions are noted," Itachi said at last. "And unconvincing. Come with me right now or give up your dimensionalism research forever. I doubt very much that this offer will be made again, so think carefully."
"In that case, I regretfully decline," Hazō said, bowing low. "I am not willing to give up my family, and I will need the resources I have here in order to continue my research for the Dragon War."
Itachi nodded sharply. "Fine. Remember the rules and that breaking them means your death as a minimum." Without waiting for a response, he vanished into a blur of Substitution.
For a dispirited moment, Hazō stared at the empty space where the S-ranker had stood.
"Welp," he said at last, "that went well."
With a sigh, he turned to head back into the city. Experience said that if he didn't go straight to Tsunade's office he was probably going to be considered guilty of lack of political acumen or treason or some damn thing.
o-o-o-o
"Knock, knock?" Hazō called pointlessly, because he was literally knocking on the doorframe and sticking his head around it as he spoke. Tsunade's secretary had said to 'go on in' but had shown no
Tsunade looked up from the thick stack of papers in front of her. More piles bracketed her on the corners of the desk. She looked like Hazō felt after a long day of fighting the Evil Demons of Paperwork.
"What do you want?" she growled, before realizing who it was and shaking her head. "Right, right, c'mon in. What happened with that giant traitor asshole?"
Yeahhhh, this conversation wasn't going to be even a little bit fraught. Nope.
Hazō took a seat opposite her, taking care to sit nice and straight so his burned back didn't touch the back of the chair. "He wanted to recruit me to Akatsuki," Hazō said. No point in burying the lead and several billion points against doing so with a Hokage as touchy as Tsunade right now was. "I said no."
She sat back, one eyebrow rising. "Why did he want you? You aren't on their level."
Hazō shrugged. "As a combatant, no. As a sealmaster, I absolutely am. I'm probably as good as Jiraiya was. I've been through his journals and instructional materials and understood everything I've read. Even spotted a few errors."
Tsunade eyed him, then snorted a laugh. "Not short on arrogance, are you?"
Hazō shrugged again. "It's not arrogance if you can back it up. Talk to Aburame Manjiro if you want evidence. I started learning sealing three years ago and he gave me my special-jōnin exam back at the end of January."
She sniffed.
"Which brings me around to why Itachi wanted to recruit me," Hazō said. "This is actually something I need to brief you on, but I'd like to take a few hours to prepare if that's okay. Some of the stuff I need to cover is esoteric and I need to get my thoughts organized or I'm going to waste a lot of your time." He studied her expression for a moment. "This is important, Lady Hokage. It's not sealmaster bullshit, I promise. It's closely related to what Akatsuki is doing right now, and to why they wanted my dimensionalism notes, and to Leaf's national interests."
She studied him for a moment. "Give me the field report," she said, meaning the sort of summary that would be given between a scout and their mission leader while in enemy territory.
"There's a rift to the afterlife on O'Uzu island. I successfully brought a dead person back through it when it was open, but it has closed since then. I think we can reopen it in order to rescue Jiraiya, and maybe the Third, and potentially anyone else, although I suspect that a given individual is only recoverable for a certain amount of time. Akatsuki are working on it and want to resurrect Pain, their leader."
Tsunade blinked.
"...Okay," she said after a moment. "I see why you might want to get organized on that one." She glanced at the water clock on the mantel. "It's not going to be a short conversation and it's already late. Be here at nine and make sure your schedule is clear."
"Yes, ma'am," he said. He stood, and bowed, and left.
o-o-o-o
"...so she told me to be there at nine and to be ready for a long meeting." He looked around the fireplace, checking the reactions of his various top-security advisors, each of them listening with rapt attention, cups of tea and bowls of nuts and other snacks on their side tables.
Kei looked as she always did when asked to consult on one of his plans: fifty percent stressed, twenty percent exasperated, thirty percent struggling to mask the other two feelings. This time she kept glancing over at her sister, then back to Hazō; Ami's presence seemed to fill Kei with both relief and confusion at Hazō's willingness to have her here.
Mari had arrived moments after the two sisters were settled; one eyebrow had risen when she saw the outclan member with the spotty Gōketsu-alignment record, but it had immediately smoothed away and been replaced with a pleasant and attentive smile.
Ami just looked excited and fascinated. Hazō wasn't sure which was more nervous-making.
"All right," Mari said. "So, what exactly do you need to include in the briefing?"
"First things first," Hazō said. "In this meeting with the three of you I'm going to be laying out a major clan secret and also some contingency thinking that will be politically fraught. Kei, Ami, you both have complicated responsibilities and allegiances. Is keeping this stuff secret going to be an issue for you?" He looked to Kei for the first answer.
"My constraints are irrelevant so long as you say nothing that is directly inimical to the interests of the Nara or the KEI," Kei said. "If you intend to harm either of those groups, I should leave now."
Hazō shook his head. "Nothing I'm going to talk about would be directly harmful, but it's always possible to find indirect harm if you look. For example, the clan secret I'll reveal would obviously be useful to anyone who learned about it. Does me not sharing it constitute harm?"
"It does not. Barring degenerate scenarios, the absence of opportunity granted is not equivalent to the presence of harm performed."
"Cool. Next question: this situation with Akatsuki is obviously super dangerous and highly unstable. Anything that I do related to it, as well as many things I don't do, could potentially raise the threat level and thereby endanger all of Leaf, which would thereby endanger the Nara and the KEI. Do you need to leave?"
She thought about that one. "On balance, I do not. My presence here can potentially reduce the danger and therefore I am acting in accord with my responsibilities to both entities. If the price of my presence is the need to maintain secrecy thereafter, I am still within my strictures." She hesitated even longer, looking to her sister for a full second before turning back to Hazō with a defeated sigh. "As your sister and your advisor, I must point out that any clan secret you share with an outclan individual such as Ami technically loses clan-secret status."
Hazō nodded. "Yeah, well, I'm prepared to take that risk. She's brilliant and the situation we're facing could potentially involve the end of the world as we know it, or the destruction of Leaf, or a reduction in the supply of chocolate."
Mari laughed. "That last one would make Kagome super grumpy, which sounds very dangerous to everyone."
Hazō nodded, completely seriously. "I know, right?" He turned to Ami. "Are you going to have any problems keeping all this private?" He didn't bother mentioning that Orochimaru may or may not have enough information to suss out the secret of lithosealing, which would likely defeat the protections of clan secrecy. The only thing that sharing that would accomplish would make it more likely for Ami to share the information. He was already taking a huge risk by including her.
"Nah," she said, waving dismissively. "My lips are sealed, my voice is a vault, no secret shall escape my soul and all that good rot. Gimme gimme gimme that sweet secret stuff!" She made a grabby-hands gesture at him.
He waved her off. "Next question: like I said, any action I do or don't take could theoretically raise the risk to Leaf, and therefore to Kei. Can you be helpful or are you going to freak the fuck out and decide to kill us again?"
"Hazō," Mari said sharply. "Ami and I made our peace. She's not going to attempt to murder any of us unless we actively try to harm Kei."
"No," Kei said. "She will not attempt to harm you in such a case." She locked eyes with her sister while speaking to the Gōketsu. "She will instead respect my agency by allowing me to choose what I consider an appropriate response and confining herself to standing back or supporting my choices."
Ami ducked her head slightly. "Yes, Kei."
Hazō eyed Ami carefully and with all due suspicion. Her voice and manner were...meek? That couldn't be right. He looked back and forth from Kei to Ami, then decided to take the plunge.
"Right," he said firmly. He licked his lips and nodded to himself. "Right. First off, I've invented an entirely new paradigm of sealing. Well, re-invented a forgotten art used, so far as I know, only by the Sage or his team. I call it lithosealing; it involves making three-dimensional seals out of stone that's been prepared in very specific ways using a highly advanced application of the Earthshaping jutsu. 'Three-dimensional seal' is a mouthful, so I use the term 'rune' to distinguish them from paper seals. The only existing rune that I'm aware of is the Great Seal on the Seventh Path, which apparently locks the Dragons away from reality."
He waited a moment for anyone to say anything but they all seemed too surprised.
"From what I've figured out, it looks like runes can do anything that seals can do, but better," he continued. "Among other reasons, they have a lot more space for chakra channels and a much bigger perimeter to put intakes on. The downside is that they are physically big and heavy. They probably won't be easy to carry in the field, at least not in the kind of numbers the Gōketsu are used to."
"How many of these things have you made?" Mari asked.
"None, yet," Hazō said, struggling not to let a defensive tone creep into his voice. "I've created the blanks, I've done infusions all except for the very last bit, and I've exhaustively checked the math and done the research. It will work."
"You do not know that for a fact," Kei said. "You cannot know that for a fact until you actually do it."
"I do," Hazō said firmly. "None of you have the background to understand this so you'll just have to take my word for it. I can make blanks out of stone. I can infuse them. They will become runes. Runes are seals except more powerful. I know this the same way I know that two plus two is four."
He looked at three unconvinced faces and sighed. "Mari. Kei. Ami. I am almost certainly the best sealmaster alive right now. That's not arrogance, it's truth. I started off with the advantages provided by the Kurosawa clan. I began my career as a talented student studying with Kagome-sensei, a man capable of creating skywalkers. I then had opportunities and experiences that no other sealmaster has had. I studied Jiraiya's notes and the collected knowledge of Leaf. I studied and compared multiple different Summoning scrolls. I became a Summoner myself, allowing me to move across realities. I trained multiple different alien species in the chakra manipulations necessary to activate seals. And, last but far from least, I studied the Great Seal. Yes, I am confident that I am the best sealmaster alive, and if I'm not then I'm in the top two or three.
"Remember all that and consider the implications when I tell you I know something in my field." He looked around again and shook his head, looking for an analogy. "Imagine that you drop a toy boat in the water in front of Shikamaru. He tells you that he has done the math and can predict where the current will take it, but you aren't familiar with that kind of math so he can't show his work. You would accept that the boat is going to land where he says it is. Now I'm telling you that I have done the math, and reviewed the auspices, and consulted the lunar influences, and done a hundred other tests that would mean nothing to you, and that together this information is rock solid. I can infuse runes and they will work. I know it in exactly the same way that I know this cup will hit the ground if I let go." He gestured slightly with his tea cup.
The three women digested that.
"All right," Mari said. "You can infuse runes and they will work. I'm happy to grant that. My question is about the details. Specifically, can you be as certain that runes can do everything that seals can do, and that they are better at all of those things? There's nothing that paper seals might be better at aside from portability?" She waited for him to open his mouth, then hurried to add. "I ask only because it seems like until you actually infuse a rune, your understanding of the subject isn't...set in stone."
Kei grunted in disgust. Hazō rolled his eyes and flicked a nut at the unrepentant redhead while Ami chuckled.
"If we can move past the pun-based 'humor'"—he leaned hard on the word—"let's talk brass tacks," Hazō said. "In about twelve hours I need to brief Lady Tsunade. My intent is to tell her about the possibility of resurrection, then tell her about lithosealing, and then present three separate options on how we deal with Akatsuki.
"The first option is that we outrace Akatsuki, sort of. Instead of focusing on rift-opening, I focus on rift-moving. We move the afterlife rift to somewhere else and we replace it with a different one. If and when they pry it open it will lead somewhere that isn't the afterlife. They can waste their time exploring completely the wrong place while we are prying the actual rift open and rescuing our people. Our S-rankers, so that we have the military strength to stand up to Akatsuki."
"Hidan and Itachi both looked through the portal," Mari objected. "They'll know instantly that it's the wrong place."
Hazō shook his head. "It's quite reasonable to think that the rift destination would shift in the process of closing and reopening. It's very unlikely that it would lose lock on the target dimension, but the specific location in that dimension might vary wildly from one opening to the next." He shrugged. "Maybe. That's one thing that Kagome-sensei and I haven't worked out yet.
"Moving on. If we don't decide to outrace Akatsuki, the second option is that we kill them."
Ami's face split in a delighted grin. "You want to kill Akatsuki? You don't think small, do you?"
"This seems wildly improbable," Kei said. "Akatsuki have been missing-nin for years. They are hated and feared. If it was possible to kill them, it would have been done by now."
"Kei, I killed one of them by accident. Or, at least, a trap that I designed reduced him to gobbets of defenseless flesh, rendering him sufficiently helpless that he could be easily terminated. Yes, Akatsuki are all incredibly dangerous and they have ridiculously broken abilities that let them survive improbably huge amounts of conventional damage. Seals are not conventional damage. I very much doubt that any expert sealmaster has ever set out with the explicit goal of killing Akatsuki in particular, much less an expert sealmaster—or even an entire village of sealmasters—working with the benefit of first-hand reports on Akatsuki's battlefield capabilities. Leaf has multiple survivors of Nagi Island who can give details on what each of them is capable of, and we can use that to create traps or effects designed to work around their defenses. Yes, killing them is possible."
"I think you may be overconfident on this point," Ami said, all traces of her usual flippancy gone. "I've spent time around these people, Hazō. They are smart, and they are careful. They travel in groups of at least two but never all together, they move unpredictably, they avoid locations that would be good for traps or ambushes...they take precautions. More precautions than any jōnin I've ever met."
"I didn't say it was easy, I said it was possible. But, fine, let's move on.
"Third option: We let them win. Let them monopolize the rift. Let them bring Pain back and do whatever his agenda says after that. All things considered, it might not be that bad; his goal seemed to be generally Uplift-aligned, even if the methods might not be ones I would favor. He wants to prevent war and make the world better. So do I. He has the power to do it by force, or at least make a good try, but he explicitly chose not to use it. He chose to try for a peaceful solution."
"A 'peaceful solution' that involved multiple human sacrifices," Mari said sharply. "Hazō, do not ever say anything like that outside this room. Ever. In fact, don't say it inside this room. Do not imply that Pain was a good person, or that his agenda was a good one, or that Leaf would be better off if he had won. He and his people caused the deaths of way too many of Leaf's heroes and champions. If you speak of him in tones of merely extreme distaste people are going to look at you like you murdered their dog. It's possible that in the future tempers will cool and the topic can be brought up as long as it's handled with kid gloves. At least for the next two or three years, until the grief has had time to lose its edge, the only acceptable attitude towards Pain is that he was a monster and the only bad thing about him being dead is that we can't kill him again."
"Noted. Thank you, Mari. Okay, I won't put that one on the table for Tsunade. What about the other two options? Outracing them or killing them?"
The three women hesitated, exchanging uncomfortable glances.
"Killing them poses a wide array of issues," Kei said. "I find it very questionable that it is practical at all, but let us stipulate for the moment that it is. As Ami says, they are never all in the same place at the same time and they are unpredictable in their movements. Even if we somehow managed to kill one pair of them, the others would immediately be on alert. Most likely, they would take the offensive. Without knowing the method of the assassination I cannot predict how likely it would be for them to determine the source of the attack, but it would be unsurprising if they decided that a seal-based trap capable of killing one of them had come from the mind of 'the best sealmaster alive', who also happened to be someone with a grudge against them after they extorted his notes from him and barred him from pursuing his research."
"That is leaving aside the political impact," Ami said. "AMITY is the only thing preventing another world war from breaking out at any second. AMITY is still very new and therefore very unstable. Having Akatsuki as the enforcement arm means that when an enforcement action needs to occur it isn't being done by the ninja of another nation, and in particular it isn't being done by ninja who can reasonably be fought. It is being done by an overwhelming force to which the only response is compliance and whose faces do not activate generational grudges or fan the flames of long-standing feuds. Kill them and there's an excellent chance that AMITY falls apart."
"Don't kill them, let them get Pain back, and AMITY becomes irrelevant," Hazō pointed out. "Maybe he decides that it's a good thing and continues to back it, maybe he doesn't. Maybe it isn't and he isn't as beneficent as I think he is, so he decides to give outright conquest a try. How many people will die before the Empire of Pain is consolidated? Will nations be permitted to exist afterwards? I know your A-Day idea was all about rescuing Pain, but the more I think about it, the more I become aware of the risks—even a life debt would only go so far with the fate of the world at stake, and that's assuming that Pain acknowledges a life debt at all, or acknowledges it to the degree we needed. Besides, remember how he talked about the Five as if he knew exactly what was going on?"
Kei jolted in her seat and Ami looked momentarily uncomfortable; Hazō allowed himself to smile as his suspicions were partially confirmed. Yes, the Five that Pain had mentioned and the five bloodlines were in fact linked.
"Of the five Thinker clans, at least the Nara and the Mori are concerned with keeping the world safe from the kind of threats other people aren't even allowed to know exist. Pain has his own forbidden lore and he might have his own opinions, and you'd have zero leverage against someone of his power if he overruled you and tried more world-endangering nonsense like his ritual. Are you okay with taking that risk?"
After several seconds, Ami said, "It would be better if that did not happen. Better for everyone."
"Yeah, personally, I'm all up with Plan: Prevent the Apocalypse," Hazō said. "Hence why I think it would be a good idea to keep Akatsuki from gaining control of the rift."
"Bringing this back around to the here and now," Mari said, "my immediate concern is with the meeting in the morning. Hazō, you should lay out most of what we talked about, but not all of it. Explain about the rift, and the possibility of resurrection. Explain your thinking about there being only three general paths: we kill Akatsuki, or we somehow prevent them from controlling the rift, or they recover Pain and become unstoppable. Emphasize the danger to AMITY if we kill them.
"Do not, in any way shape or form, express any sympathy or support of Pain. If necessary, you can reluctantly grant that Akatsuki are maybe useful as enforcers for AMITY until Leaf can regain its strength, although their high-handed ways suggest a worrying degree of corruption. Don't disclose lithosealing. Once you have an infused rune to show off, preferably one that demonstrates the potential power of this new discipline, then we could talk about it." She grimaced. "Personally, I would prefer not to disclose it at all, but we'll need to show a card that strong if we want to convince Tsunade to consider assassinating Akatsuki, or acting in direct opposition to them by moving or manipulating the rift, or anything else in that general area." She sighed. "I wish this meeting had been scheduled for some point after we had a rune in hand, but you were right to do it when you did. You couldn't afford not to talk to Tsunade right away and she needs to have this information so that she doesn't make political moves based on faulty intelligence." She glanced at the other two women. "Your thoughts, ladies?"
"Agreed," Kei said as Ami nodded. "Hazō, how soon could you have an appropriate demonstration ready?"
Hazō rubbed his chin, thinking about it. "I can see a couple of ways to do it," he said. "The first would be to make a paper seal and a rune that both do the same thing. Probably that first seal from Jiraiya's training series. The seal will make a faint puff of wind, the rune will make a powerful blast of air."
"That seems useful," Mari said. "The second way would be to simply make a very powerful rune?"
"Probably an explosive," Hazō said. He chuckled. "Actually, my first rune should really be an explosive or Kagome-sensei will be sad forever." He lost his smile as he thought about it. "I'll need to be very careful with the testing. I'm not sure exactly how big the default blast effect from a runic explosive would be." He scratched his head, thinking, then shook it. "Too many variables. I'll have to make one and set it off in order to calibrate. After that I should be able to up- and downscale them as needed."
"Do me a favor and try not to let your first test be too impressive, okay?" Mari said. "And keep it way, way outside of Leaf. Maybe outside of Fire. Last thing we need is a whole lot of collateral damage from testing weapons that turned out to be a little more enthusiastic than expected."
Hazō smiled bitterly, memories of the Elemental Mastery tests fresh in his mind. "No fear on that score."
He took a sip of his tea, bracing himself for the next topic. "Okay, last and final thing: we're currently looking at not one but two disasters with a fast clock, Akatsuki with their rift research and the Dragons with their everything. On top of that, I'm confident we'll eventually end up wanting to do option one or option two—steal the rift or kill Akatsuki. In order to make that work I need to be able to focus completely. That means I need to get healed as quickly as possible because it's hard to focus at all right now. The pain is distracting, the painkillers leave me muzzy. I need to be sharp and I need to get all distractions off my plate and, in this context, politics and the duties of a Clan Head are a distraction. Heck, the Dragons are a distraction if we're dealing with the rift or Akatsuki. Can the three of you handle everything for at least six months? I'm thinking I step down as clan head for that period."
All three women blinked at that. No one spoke for a moment.
"Hazō...stepping down is not a thing Clan Heads do," Mari began.
"The Third did," Hazō objected. "Well, stepped down as Hokage."
"First, that's different from stepping down as a Clan Head. Still very unusual but it makes sense in context. The Third was still powerful but he was aging. He had accomplished what needed his particular skills and Leaf was in a stable period. He was handing the hat off to his chosen successor who had been carefully prepared for the role and was widely regarded as too powerful to mess with. What you're talking about is stepping down as head of the family. That would be one thing if you were passing it off to Jiraiya, but you're not."
"It makes you look weak," Ami summarized. "Like you couldn't handle the job."
"It makes the clan look weak," Kei added. "Especially if I interpret your suggestion literally and take it that you are stepping down in favor of the three of us. That says that our Clan Head couldn't handle the job but there were no acceptable successor so he stepped down in favor of a triumvirate, two members of which do not carry the Gōketsu name. It would utterly destroy Mari's credibility."
"Not to mention, you told Itachi that your reason for staying in Leaf was to research for the Dragon War," Mari said. "If you're now saying that it's a distraction, that blows a hole in what you told him and will definitely draw a reaction when they hear that."
"Perhaps he could step down in favor of Mari," Kei suggested tentatively. "Or Noburi."
Mari shook her head. "Noburi is a good kid, a brilliant medic, and a good fighter for his age, but he's got all the same issues Hazō does. He's not a jōnin, he's got no political experience, and he hasn't been explicitly prepared for the role. He would look like the best of a bunch of bad choices, chosen out of desperation, and completely inadequate for the role. And it absolutely cannot be me. That would 100% be seen as me having leveraged Hazō out at a moment of weakness." She shook her head. "Sorry, Hazō, you're stuck with the job."
"Damn it," Hazō muttered. "Fine."
"Speaking of kicking someone while they're down," Ami added with an unnecessary degree of relish, "if you do decide to step down anyway and you figure out some appropriate candidate, don't think you're stepping down temporarily. Rulership isn't something like a baby where you can hand it off to granny for the weekend while you go swanning off to the hot springs. If you step down, you're done. The only reason the Third was able to return to power was because the Fourth died suddenly and there was no other candidate as good as the Third. He was the universally acclaimed choice after Leaf was suddenly weakened and thrown into chaos." Her lips twitched in dark humor. "Leaf lost a lot of jōnin that night. In a sense, it was a practice run for the current apocalypse."
Mari looked tired. "I could really do with a lot less apocalypse." She shook her head and then put on an overly sparkly smile. "Honestly, I'm deeply disappointed in you, Hazō, allowing the world to fall apart like this. Get on that, won't you? Mama needs a vacation."
"Why do I have to do it?" Hazō whined, playing along. "Let someone else do it."
"Tsk, tsk," Mari said, wagging a finger at him. "No pouting. You're the head of the clan so it's your job to keep everyone safe and make sure there are toys and candies for all the little kiddies and generally make the world perfect. Stop slacking!"
"I will," Hazō said, all humor falling away. "I promise. I don't know how just yet and I know that it's not going to be quick, but I'll do it. I will keep you safe, Mari. And you, Kei, and Ami, and all of the ones we care about. I swear."
All three women stared in surprise at the sudden switch in tone, and at the heartfelt promise. And then, predictably, Mari ruined it by going "D'awwww!" and leaning over to ruffle his hair furiously.
XP AWARD: 3 This update covered a bit more than half a day, I think. Might have been less, but I'm feeling generous.
Brevity XP: -6 Gosh oh golly, 999 words, O My! That final word that got deleted had very high marginal value.
"GM had fun" XP: 1
- Family discussion that encouraged badass boasting
It is now about 9pm. You have a meeting with Tsunade at 9am.
Vote time! What to do now?
Voting ends on Wednesday, .
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