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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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@Paperclipped, I'm looking at the Stagnancy widget in the character sheets and noticing that, if I want to check whether the next stagnancy barrier for a given domain is unlockable or not, I need to reference another value (the total XP) and do some basic arithmetic ("if the stagnancy threshold is greater than the XP total by at least X amount, the next threshold has already been cleared and no further unlocks are possible right now"). If this was handled automatically, it would let the widget display everything we need to know about stagnancy in one coherent package.

For instance, Hazou's Combat threshold is 14,000 and his total XP is 13,766. Subtract the latter from the former to get 234, which is less than 1000 and therefore unlockable. If Hazou then got a Combat unlock, his Combat threshold would become 15,000 (due to having two domains), and subtracting the total XP from the threshold would leave you with 1234, greater than 1000 and thus locked.

The same formula should work for his Sealing domain despite being offset by 500. For a one-domain ninja, you would ask whether or not the threshold is 500 higher than the total XP rather than 1000, and you'd use 1500 for a three-domain ninja.

If the problem is that there isn't enough horizontal space for an extra cell without the widget becoming flush with the Stunts box, this check could be embedded in a concatenate function in the domain cells. That is, the cell that says "Combat" could change to say "Combat (locked)" when it's not possible to further un-stagnate ourselves at this moment.

For Hazou's Combat cell, I think this would look like =CONCATENATE("Combat", IF($C52 - $S$1 > 1000, " (locked)", "")) with similar code for other cells in the widgets.
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
@Paperclipped, I'm looking at the Stagnancy widget in the character sheets and noticing that, if I want to check whether the next stagnancy barrier for a given domain is unlockable or not, I need to reference another value (the total XP) and do some basic arithmetic ("if the stagnancy threshold is greater than the XP total by at least X amount, the next threshold has already been cleared and no further unlocks are possible right now"). If this was handled automatically, it would let the widget display everything we need to know about stagnancy in one coherent package.

For instance, Hazou's Combat threshold is 14,000 and his total XP is 13,766. Subtract the latter from the former to get 234, which is less than 1000 and therefore unlockable. If Hazou then got a Combat unlock, his Combat threshold would become 15,000 (due to having two domains), and subtracting the total XP from the threshold would leave you with 1234, greater than 1000 and thus locked.

The same formula should work for his Sealing domain despite being offset by 500. For a one-domain ninja, you would ask whether or not the threshold is 500 higher than the total XP rather than 1000, and you'd use 1500 for a three-domain ninja.

If the problem is that there isn't enough horizontal space for an extra cell without the widget becoming flush with the Stunts box, this check could be embedded in a concatenate function in the domain cells. That is, the cell that says "Combat" could change to say "Combat (locked)" when it's not possible to further un-stagnate ourselves at this moment.

For Hazou's Combat cell, I think this would look like =CONCATENATE("Combat", IF($C52 - $S$1 > 1000, " (locked)", "")) with similar code for other cells in the widgets.
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Done.
 
[X] [OPSEC] Some Disclosure, but faflec is weird
[X] Action Plan: Debriefing and Questions

I don't like forcing disclosure on our adopted ninja because that was not the deal we made when adopting them. Some of them have jutsu they learned as Clanless from Clanless with the understanding that it was a trade between two people. Leaf laws don't respect that, but we should.

Velorien said:
Clan Gōketsu has two Academy students: Gōketsu Honoka (year 3) and Gōketsu Sasha (year 6), both of whom were recently adopted. Gōketsu Sasha will become the first genin to graduate with the name Gōketsu in around six months, assuming no training accidents happen. No young Gōketsu have yet been selected for the Academy intake, and it will be many years before a Gōketsu-born child will be eligible.
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Wasn't there a whole complication with adopting current Academy students for which we got special dispensation for Honoka despite having already adopted her parents? Did that special dispensation also apply to Sasha?

Really, I am kind of overflowing with questions about Sasha, to the point where I'd almost rather just say "tell me more about Sasha". If that's not time appropriate right now then I guess I am just curious how he and his parents came to be Gokētsu while he was in the Academy.
Paperclipped said:
Rapid Rejuvenation
  • Hazō + Noburi
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Can someone remind me what this was and where we got it?


Paperclipped said:
  • Orochimaru's XP lootboxes
    • Hazō and Noburi (Akane was also occasionally given specific notes to study from)
  • Orochimaru's personal affairs, including the egg custard
    • Hazō
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Most of the OPSEC makes sense to me. But I don't quite understand why the Orochimaru stuff is top secret like that. At the same time I assume that there is some reasoning the QMs had for this and that it might be very good reasoning. Could you tell us please?
Paperclipped said:
  • Characters have 'domains' of skills. For example, Gai's only domain was combat (specifically taijutsu) while Hazō has both combat and sealing. Jiraiya had combat, sealing, and socials. It is normal to pick up new domains as you advance.
  • You pick up new domains by spending significant amounts of XP in relevant skills.
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At what point does something related to Earth Shaping (construction?) become a domain?
 
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Paperclipped said:
  • By overcoming a level-appropriate challenge you can:
    • Remove an in-effect barrier, thereby removing its effect on your XP rate; or,
    • Remove a barrier at the next multiple of 500 before it goes into effect.
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Ok these rules as a whole look very good for the most part, but there's one simulationist issue I would like addressed.

That being, when you say "overcome" a level-appropriate challenge, does that mean you're required to mechanically win whatever encounter removes your stagnacy?

Because if so, it would be rather flawed simulationist wise as humans IRL tend to actually learn more from failure then from success.

(A lesson paid for in broken bones or being humiliated at a party or something tends to sink in a lot deeper then when one reflects that they're damned lucky that their oppponent didn't exploit that opening.)

So by that measure, shouldn't the metric for removing stagnacy barriers instead be whether or not the challenge in question was a learning experience?


(incidentally I'd like to point out that how mentorship from people with significantly higher stats interfaces with this stagnacy system is something that also bears thinking about, afterall these mentors would already have learned many of the lessons their students would need to learn in order to advance further, afterall when learning new skills humans don't exactly need to re-invent the proverbial wheel by themselves every time now do they?

Instead when learning for example to play guitar, they might instead look up a bunch of youtube tutorials or hire a tutor in order to stand on "the shoulders of giants" as the saying goes.

At the same time verbal instruction can really only take you so far, as there are some lessons that really only practical experience can teach you.)
 
cog-nito said:
That being, when you say "overcome" a level-appropriate challenge, does that mean you're required to mechanically win whatever encounter removes your stagnacy?
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Perhaps it means "overcoming" in the same way that any landing you can walk away from is a good landing? It'd be fitting, given the deathworld.

I would also guess that the QMs are attempting to avoid the degenerate fail-state of "challenge something of arbitrarily high TN, fail as expected, make getaway". Hazou wouldn't learn anything from fighting Hidan, for example, he'd just get completely outclassed hard enough that it's not even a fight. But I would say that "level-appropriate" is more load bearing there than "overcome", and I think the intent would largely remain if failing a level-appropriate challenge was explicitly as valid as overcoming one.

(Also I very much agree that learning more from failure than success is a valid angle that should be reflected here: it's already part of the sealing rules, in grinding mastery of a given seal. Failing to draw/infuse a seal gives much more progress towards mastering the seal than a successful draw/infusion, though it's cold comfort when your failure means you've triggered a sealing failure)
 
Inferno Vulpix said:
Perhaps it means "overcoming" in the same way that any landing you can walk away from is a good landing? It'd be fitting, given the deathworld.

I would also guess that the QMs are attempting to avoid the degenerate fail-state of "challenge something of arbitrarily high TN, fail as expected, make getaway". Hazou wouldn't learn anything from fighting Hidan, for example, he'd just get completely outclassed hard enough that it's not even a fight. But I would say that "level-appropriate" is more load bearing there than "overcome", and I think the intent would largely remain if failing a level-appropriate challenge was explicitly as valid as overcoming one.

(Also I very much agree that learning more from failure than success is a valid angle that should be reflected here: it's already part of the sealing rules, in grinding mastery of a given seal. Failing to draw/infuse a seal gives much more progress towards mastering the seal than a successful draw/infusion, though it's cold comfort when your failure means you've triggered a sealing failure)
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The "S-rankers fight and you run away" kinda happened with Ryuugamine, tbf. :V
He and his team got murdered by the Sannin, and he used that moment of defeat to meditate on it and get stronger.
 
[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence
Word count: <300.
  • Meeting: Kei, Shikamaru, Snowflake, Mari.
    • Topic: Jashin. Shikamaru told us to keep away. That ship's sailed...
      • ... and was never a good approach. Shikamaru didn't know Jashin was real. Unknown threats of this scale are apocalyptically concerning, as "the Eaters" taught us.
      • We need to investigate the threat, not ignore it. What if it's also about to break free?
    • Preparations:
      • To Mari: You suspect the others, Shikamaru especially, may conceal information. Monitor that. Don't raise suspicion.
      • Review the ANBU transcript of your Hidan conversations. Anything you don't remember?
      • Request the Isan lore. Anything Jashin-related?
      • Keep a live transcript. Periodically review it.
    • Pool ~all relevant knowledge.
      • Priority: Your Orochimaru Q&A. You strictly followed a list, then "forgot" about Jashin, apparently repeating yourself.
        • An antimeme?
      • Everything Hidan said about Jashin. Balance, conviction, death and birth, quotas, dreams...
      • Particulars:
        • Some alleged interest in humanity's prosperity and non-extinction.
        • "'They' cut out Jashin's tongue."
        • Jashin making the Sage bleed.
      • Jashin's symbol. Recognizable?
      • Events at O'uzu and Bakuchioka.
      • Jashin's powers. Probability-manipulation?
        • Hidan's powers/blessings.
      • Potential Hierophant connection.
      • Relation to "summoning Death"?
      • Omit your afterlife-viewing and Scroll-locating experiments.
    • Do they know anything?
      • Shikamaru said every such remaining entity isn't friendly to humanity. Very specific. Whence such confidence?
    • You're uniquely well-positioned for get more information from Hidan. Prepare for that.
      • What are the highest-priority questions to ask?
      • (This justifies Mari's presence: she'll decipher Hidan's psychology, best approaches for questioning him.)
  • Meet Hidan (with Asuma's permission). Express interest in finally learning theology.
    • Follow the prepared questionnaire, plus:
      • What's Jashin's ideal world?
      • How's Jashin connected to the Five? What are they, in His view? You're only familiar with... biased perspectives.
        • (Conceal this from everyone but Mari.)
    • Justifications (if needed):
      • Clearly your insight's useful.
      • If you start a Jashinism branch, you'll need this knowledge.
 
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Noumero said:
Priority: Your Orochimaru Q&A. You followed a strict list, then "forgot" about Jashin, apparently repeating yourself.
  • An antimeme?
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Nah, we just asked the same question twice:

Velorien said:
Orochimaru frowned. "How can you possibly know about the Five, yet not about the tenfold abomination?"
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Paperclipped said:
"Yeah, a dream," Hidan said. "Usually they'll be weird and cryptic, but easy to remember. Like a peaceful day under the sunshine and a blood-red moon, or a world of floatin' islands in endless darkness connected only by bridges of bone, or people poppin' into existence from the end of your scythe and agin' backwards until they're babies again. Lord Jashin never does all the work for ya, you see? You gotta figure out what it means on your own. You clearly ain't seen one."
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Dreams? Red moon? Bones?

It's just great great spirit grandma. She is not a women of many words anyway.

Or you know, the "Watchers" (because no tounge,duh) or the "Nameless fear".
 
Noumero said:
That would be the surface interpretation, yes. But @Inferno Vulpix pointed out that Hazou literally went line-by-line down the list of questions we voted-in, basically verbatim... with only the question about Jashin being seemingly shifted to the end, and Oro acting as if we'd already asked it.

It's not just Oro being a difficult smartass, the weirdness is on Hazou's end as well.
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Make sense, I guess we got lucky that Oro didn't got more curious. Very convenient.

[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence
 
Rafin said:
Is your plan omitting the Asuma debrief on purpose or are you expecting that to already have happened?
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eaglejarl said:
  1. That sounds awful. Thank you for directing his madness out of Leaf.
  2. Good work keeping them on target. All evidence so far discovered has been handed off, including all blood samples.
  3. Did you actually set-up a discreet, illegal communication line with Hidan? No? Good. If he demands you stay in contact, we can send regular messengers to Rain.
  4. If you're going to do more banditry-targeting C-ranks to keep Hidan off your back, arrange it personally rather than going through Tower middlemen. Prioritize locations in the southeast so as to be farther from the borders.
  5. Please publicly denounce Jashinism before people think you've gone mad.
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You want more than this? IMO we don't need another debrief.
 
Sir Stompy said:
You want more than this? IMO we don't need another debrief.
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I somehow missed a whole page of comments even after checking specifically for that. Sorry :oops:.

Edit:

eaglejarl said:
If you're going to do more banditry-targeting C-ranks to keep Hidan off your back, arrange it personally rather than going through Tower middlemen. Prioritize locations in the southeast so as to be farther from the borders.
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Just to clarify, this would mean going to Asuma personally and telling him we are going bandit hunting from [date] to [date]?

Also, what kinds of payment contributions does Gokētsu have to do to Kakuzu? Trivial for a rich clan or something more notable?
 
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Rafin said:
Just to clarify, this would mean going to Asuma personally and telling him we are going bandit hunting from [date] to [date]?
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Yeah I assume so. He's concerned about leaks in the Tower and doesn't want Hazou to fall victim to them. Since they still haven't figured out what the leak was.
Rafin said:
Also, what kinds of payment contributions does Gokētsu have to do to Kakuzu? Trivial for a rich clan or something more notable?
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QMs will tell us if we need to care about this. They're probably still discussing it. But Hazou can literally print money now, so I'm not concerned.
 
Noumero said:
[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence
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It might be wise to update Ami on the events that have unfolded, if she's around, before engaging with the Greater Kittensphere.

Doubtlessly a different plan entirely, but it seems more appropriate given her current plans and our involvement therein.
 
Noumero said:
[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence
Word count: <300.
  • Meeting: Kei, Shikamaru, Snowflake, Mari.
    • Topic: Jashin. Shikamaru told us to keep away. That ship's sailed...
      • ... and was never a good approach. Shikamaru didn't know Jashin was real. Unknown threats of this scale are apocalyptically concerning, as "the Eaters" taught us.
      • We need to investigate the threat, not ignore it. What if it's also about to break free?
    • Preparations:
      • To Mari: You suspect the others, Shikamaru especially, may conceal information. Watch for that. Don't raise suspicion.
      • Review the ANBU transcript of your Hidan conversations. Anything you don't remember?
      • Keep a live transcript. Periodically review it.
    • Pool ~all relevant knowledge.
      • Priority: Your Orochimaru Q&A. You followed a strict list, then "forgot" about Jashin, apparently repeating yourself.
        • An antimeme?
      • Everything Hidan said about Jashin. Balance, conviction, death and birth, quotas, dreams...
      • Particluars:
        • Some alleged interest in humanity's prosperity and non-extinction.
        • "'They' cut out Jashin's tongue."
        • Jashin making the Sage bleed.
      • Jashin's symbol. Recognizable?
      • Events at O'uzu and Bakuchioka.
      • Jashin's powers. Probability-manipulation?
        • Hidan's powers/blessings.
      • Potential Hierophant connection.
      • Relation to "summoning Death"?
      • Omit your afterlife-viewing and Scroll-locating experiments.
    • Do they know anything?
      • Shikamaru told us none of such remaining entities are friendly to humanity. Very specific. Whence such confidence?
    • Synthesize the information. Put it into larger/historical context. Form models.
    • You're uniquely well-positioned for get more information from Hidan. Prepare for that.
      • What are the highest-priority questions to ask?
      • (This justifies Mari's presence: she's to figure out Hidan's psychology, best approaches for questioning him.)
  • Meet Hidan (with Asuma's permission). Express interest in finally getting that theological knowledge.
    • Inquire about Jashin's values, metaphysical nature, history...
    • What are Jashin's long-term goals? What's His ideal world?
    • Justifications (if needed):
      • Clearly your insight's useful.
      • If you start a Jashinism branch, you'll need to know what to preach.
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We probably want to ask after any Jashin-related lore that abducted Isanese loremasters might know.
 
[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence

Adding my vote to this plan, with the note that Ami may have different opsec lines than Shikamaru. We can ask her the same questions in a different setting and might get more information (on some topics)
 
[x] Action Plan: Due Diligence
Noumero said:
Meet Hidan (with Asuma's permission). Express interest in finally getting that theological knowledge
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Maybe add a section about having the group from the meeting come up with additional questions for Hidan? And also for them to screen oue questions.

I sort of want to include Kagome, Yuno, and Noburi to the earlier meeting. Kagome because he often has out of context information, Yuno for the Isanese lore she picked up, and Noburi because he's a bro and it would be rude to keep him out of such an important conversation when everyone else is in it.
 
ProperAttorney said:
I sort of want to include Kagome, Yuno, and Noburi to the earlier meeting
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This feels like an unforced error. Both Kei and Shika have been strong adherents to the Clan Secret system & have withheld lore about the Thinker Clans from us even after we disclosed Afterlife details.

Bringing Noburi along provides no possible insight and is likely to derail the entire meeting imo. Same for the others.
 
Zampano said:
This feels like an unforced error. Both Kei and Shika have been strong adherents to the Clan Secret system & have withheld lore about the Thinker Clans from us even after we disclosed Afterlife details.

Bringing Noburi along provides no possible insight and is likely to derail the entire meeting imo. Same for the others.
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I think trying to get Lore from Shikamaru is unlikely to work as we've not leveled socials since the last time we tried. Getting it from Kei, Ami, and Yuno seems more likely to work.
 
[] Action Plan: Due Diligence

I suspect this will involve a great amount of social stat rolls, and with our Milds, I doubt we'll pick up on anything useful.

@Noumero you may want to dis-invite Shikamaru from the meeting. Shikamaru isn't as invested in Hazou as Kei is, and Kei has access to the same lore that Shikamaru does. We can more easily persuade Kei than we can Shikamaru. And if we ask something that Kei doesn't know, she'll be more likely to convince Shikamaru than we will.

Kei lambasted Hazou for not coming to her first about EM Nuke, saying that she could have done something similar to what I suggest above.

Let's take that into account, and follow her advice.
 
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