Remove ads

Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

Reader mode
wow.


Fun to see Mari be awesome in combat again, I'm definitely going to have to read that over again to follow the lines more carefully and get the full picture.


Part of me wants to say that Ami probably won't hate us for that, but another part of me says that she isn't as clearheaded as she thinks she is, and will find a way to hold a bit of a grudge anyways. Probably best to keep some distance for a little while, at least until Hazou calms down enough to keep Ami from burning down the rest of her bridge in petty retribution.
 
eaglejarl said:
This was definitely time for Danger-Mitigation Ami to guide.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The same damage-mitigation that she uses when confronted with Ren, whom she loathes. Great to know we're in the same category, now. :/

eaglejarl said:
"I understand the lesson," she said, eyes locked on Mari's as she bowed very slightly, more of a shallow nod. She would not grovel. Ami was not a primary combatant but everyone in the room knew that Mari could not take her so easily without the advantage of surprise. Hazō would not even be a factor.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hazou's a sealmaster with several armor techniques... but I suppose those are secret. Still, Ami's discounting a sealmaster in his own home. Worse yet, Hazou was trained by Kagome, so you know Hazou's going to have safety measures that would make Jiraiya blink in surprise. Whatever trauma inflicted Ami with the motivation to become one of the youngest jonin on record also inflicted her with a critical case of arrogance. Earned arrogance, perhaps, considering that Ami was able to fight in the battle against Conjura and live, but arrogance is still a flaw.

---
Honestly, I fail to even understand why Ami even did what she did. Obviously it was on purpose, but if it was to pass along some secret message like Lal thinks, then why do so in the most deliberately cruel manner possible? To test for Hazou's reaction? To establish her own independence in their new working dynamic? Because it was a whim she decided to act on and then elected to double down when called out?

Ami is the most frustrating character (in a good way)! She's stunningly insightful, fun to hang around and enjoy leisure time with, devoted to one of our family members, seeks/desires understanding from Hazou, and is even open to working together for Uplift (albiet out of boredom, rather than belief, but still). But she's also completely out of touch with her own emotions, remarkably self-destructive (forced herself apart from Keiko), doesn't know how true family (those worth the title) interact, and is too damn proud to acknowledge when she's made a mistake!

I can't tell if Ami respects Hazou enough not to give a hollow apology, if Ami doesn't respect Hazou enough to care about his emotions, or if she respects Hazou and feels vulnerable for it and is lashing out as a result, if Ami doesn't respect Hazou and decided to stomp on his emotions on an idle whim, or if Ami respects Hazou but doesn't know how to show it and is defaulting to how she's treated her "friends" in the past!
 
Urgh, just caught up on updates. If Ami was trying to prime us to properly consider Snowflake's identities crisis via creating an unborn child in our minds before destroying it... Ami pls. Ami even went so far as to attempt damage control by insinuating that she made Hazou feel this was on purpose, instead of any number of options that would cool him down like a serious-sounding apology or mention of Keiko.

I suspect that Ami was entirely capable of priming Hazou to support Snowflake without mentioning Snowflake directly, but chose to do what she did because it was more fun for her. I have no sympathy for Ami. I wouldn't have taken Ami at face value either, but I'm not Hazou.

Anyways, I'm glad people are actually discussing the upcoming Jonin spar now. Does Noburi have combat summons yet? I'm not sure it's been stated so far.
 
Last edited:
All this talk of "a sealmaster in his own home" has me puzzled. Isn't our home full of civilians? Do we really have lethal traps and defenses everywhere? I'd assumed that we had lots of them around the compound, and then around certain areas like our office and perhaps main meeting rooms (Kagome's bedroom being canonically the most heavily defended place we have). I'd assumed that Ami was counting on that during the first meeting. Us needing to actually take out a seal and throw it at her is the same as us not having a seal when fighting an older ninja.

Similarly, do we actually have many ways to nonlethally subdue someone that she couldn't counter? AFAIK we have sound-based attacks and goo-based attacks, both of which she knows about and presumably has some counter to (she's a Mori with good intel on us).
So if we weren't going to nuke everything due to fears of collateral damage, didn't have a weapon capable of subduing her, and probably didn't have the basic speed/skill to avoid whatever attacks an older ninja like her could send against us, is it really unreasonable to assume that she could consider us a non-factor in a fight between her and Mari?

On another note, if someone has a link to the chapter in which we stood up to Zabuza (and then got squashed by his aura/intent) I'd appreciate it. My search-fu is weak today.
 
RandomOTP said:
Honestly, I fail to even understand why Ami even did what she did. Obviously it was on purpose, but if it was to pass along some secret message like Lal thinks, then why do so in the most deliberately cruel manner possible? To test for Hazou's reaction? To establish her own independence in their new working dynamic? Because it was a whim she decided to act on and then elected to double down when called out?

Ami is the most frustrating character (in a good way)! She's stunningly insightful, fun to hang around and enjoy leisure time with, devoted to one of our family members, seeks/desires understanding from Hazou, and is even open to working together for Uplift (albiet out of boredom, rather than belief, but still). But she's also completely out of touch with her own emotions, remarkably self-destructive (forced herself apart from Keiko), doesn't know how true family (those worth the title) interact, and is too damn proud to acknowledge when she's made a mistake!

I can't tell if Ami respects Hazou enough not to give a hollow apology, if Ami doesn't respect Hazou enough to care about his emotions, or if she respects Hazou and feels vulnerable for it and is lashing out as a result, if Ami doesn't respect Hazou and decided to stomp on his emotions on an idle whim, or if Ami respects Hazou but doesn't know how to show it and is defaulting to how she's treated her "friends" in the past!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

In retrospect I think Ami took the way Hazo attempts clear communication and objective discussion as general permission to ignore the emotional impact of what you're saying on the other person. And, well, we have been pretty much a doormat whenever she teased us, and it has been escalating. She might have expected us to notice this escalation pattern and prevent it before we react so strongly?

In any case this is of couse a fault in Ami's character. Her view of our relationship is obviously based on self-interest rather than trust (as it is with most other relations she has, I imagine). No, she didn't care about our emotions, other than to trigger amusing reactions. That she didn't have to do it (it's clearly an annoyance when she needs to do it) and we didn't shun/avoid her as much as we could was probably some of the appeal.
 
eaglejarl said:
Mari grabbed Ami's hair and slammed her face into the table.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Not bad, but still a missed opportunity to dunk Ami's face into a bowl of water.

E: Maybe soup is enough like water to count? A question for the ages, I'm sure.
 
Last edited:
TalonofAnathrax said:
All this talk of "a sealmaster in his own home" has me puzzled. Isn't our home full of civilians? Do we really have lethal traps and defenses everywhere? I'd assumed that we had lots of them around the compound, and then around certain areas like our office and perhaps main meeting rooms (Kagome's bedroom being canonically the most heavily defended place we have). I'd assumed that Ami was counting on that during the first meeting. Us needing to actually take out a seal and throw it at her is the same as us not having a seal when fighting an older ninja.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

There are a lot of civilians in the estate but few ever come into the Gōketsu residence proper. Gaku is an obvious exception. There are a few others -- maids, etc, although they don't go into the bedrooms, -- but for the most part it's a family-only place.
 
TalonofAnathrax said:
All this talk of "a sealmaster in his own home" has me puzzled. Isn't our home full of civilians? Do we really have lethal traps and defenses everywhere? I'd assumed that we had lots of them around the compound, and then around certain areas like our office and perhaps main meeting rooms (Kagome's bedroom being canonically the most heavily defended place we have). I'd assumed that Ami was counting on that during the first meeting. Us needing to actually take out a seal and throw it at her is the same as us not having a seal when fighting an older ninja.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, I can't speak for the others, but I was referring to the main building which only has the Goketsu ninja, plus Gaku. I read it as the main building is pretty much always mostly empty (Team Uplift, plus Haru and maybe Yuno), with other buildings hosting things like the meals for civilians and whatnot.

And if you're a sealmaster who's been trained by Kagome, then I'd assume that your internal security is at least a few notches higher than your average ninja (who are a paranoid demographic by default), and maybe a step or two above any other non-Kagome-trained sealmaster.

Edit: ninja-ed by Vel, himself.

Anderkent said:
Her view of our relationship is obviously based on self-interest rather than trust (as it is with most other relations she has, I imagine). No, she didn't care about our emotions, other than to trigger amusing reactions. That she didn't have to do it (it's clearly an annoyance when she needs to do it) and we didn't shun/avoid her as much as we could was probably some of the appeal.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'd say that Ami's relationship with Hazou isn't based on self-interest, but rather forced connection. They're both loved by Keiko, and they both love Keiko in turn. So they can't lash out at each other, because doing so would hurt Keiko, whom they both love and do not wish to see hurt --let alone hurt her, themselves. However, Ami has many traits that make Hazou respect her and hope for her aid in Uplift. Up until this last chapter, I thought that Hazou had qualities that made Ami respect Hazou as well. But maybe respect doesn't factor into Ami's actions here?

I wonder how Ami would've reacted if Hazou had been perceptive enough to say "Ami, I recognize that you're trying to tell me to be gentle with Snowflake since she's as new to her individuality as a newborn child is, but the manner in which you did so is abhorrent. Such cruel methods, however efficient they might be in delivering their message across the gap of qualia, cannot exist between you and I. I value my family too highly to be wholly rational when such methods are used, much as you would be if I had used your own love for Keiko in a similar manner. Please leave the Goketsu Compound, because I find myself desiring to say and do things in anger that will make our working relationship, going forward, more difficult than it needs to be. I will find you once I have calmed down sufficiently enough to have a conversation worthy of its participants."

Was Ami's ire drawn at that Hazou had an emotional reaction and didn't see the content of her message, or was Ami's ire invoked because Hazou tried to dictate how she should act? On one hand, Ami is annoyed that "normies" will act self-destructively during emotional moments and do things that are ill-considered. On the other hand, Ami also values her freedom enough that asking her to consider Hazou's emotions when planning her actions might be enough to draw her ire.

...I'm struck by the thought that Ami dislikes the emotionality of other people because it infringes upon her freedom, pressuring her to act in a way that she may not feel inclined. I suspect that the mere presence of that pressure makes Ami want to act out in childish defiance of it, even if she were already inclined to act in that way. This is hypocritical of Ami, because Ami also demands that the world bend and contort itself to her own emotions. For example, Ami adores Keiko, so anyone that would seek to hurt or harm Keiko must be reduced to ash, without mercy or quarter.

For as much as Ami lauds her perceptive skills, her introspective capabilities need far more work.
 
Last edited:
RandomOTP said:
I'd say that Ami's relationship with Hazou isn't based on self-interest, but rather forced connection. They're both loved by Keiko, and they both love Keiko in turn. So they can't lash out at each other, because doing so would hurt Keiko, whom they both love and do not wish to see hurt.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Now imagine what would happen if Keiko died without us being directly responsible, even.

That said, always nice to see Ami make mistakes on-screen because flaws make characters more interesting to me. I am still not overly fond of her character because of the (apparent) ease of how she manages to pull off bullshit moves and gets away with them, but this helps a little.

(And it's not jealousy of her being able to pull things off we could only dream of. I tried imagining Mari doing all these things and realized I'd be fine with that because her character, with all her strengths and weaknesses, is a lot more interesting to me than the Robotic Persona Algamation masquerading as Keiko's sister.)
 
Noumero said:
Any high-risk high-reward plans for determining [Ami's] compatibility with our long-term goals we want to run, any crisis situations we want to put her into to see how she'd react and how far we can trust her?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Ah, I see Mari is way ahead of me. Why don't we have getting her Shadow Clones at a higher priority again? She gets shit done.
 
Last edited:
Tua said:
Now imagine what would happen if Keiko died without us being directly responsible, even.

That said, always nice to see Ami make mistakes on-screen because flaws make characters more interesting to me. I am still not overly fond of her character because of the (apparent) ease of how she manages to pull off bullshit moves and gets away with them, but this helps a little.

(And it's not jealousy of her being able to pull things off we could only dream of. I tried imagining Mari doing all these things and realized I'd be fine with that because her character, with all her strengths and weaknesses, is a lot more interesting to me than the Robotic Persona Algamation masquerading as Keiko's sister.)
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Just because someone dies, that doesn't mean their connections vanish. Mari still grieves for Jiraiya, and Hazou still uses Jiraiya as a model for "what would a good clan head do in this instance?" If Keiko were to die, Ami and Hazou would burn the murderers to the ground. If it was something like stress, then I think they'd team up to force bigotry out of Leaf (or as close to it). They'd be cemented in their goals by the shared grief and loss of a person they both called family.

That said, I view Ami more as a person pretending to be a Robotic Persona Amalgamation than the inverse.
Noumero said:
Ah, I see Mari is way ahead of me. Why don't we have getting her Shadow Clones at a higher priority again? She gets shit done.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because she's retired and hasn't mentioned wanting it. I suppose we could broach the topic, but I figure that if she'd wanted it, she could've gotten it from Asuma on her own, or asked Hazou/Keiko to teach her.
 
Last edited:
RandomOTP said:
Just because someone dies, that doesn't mean their connections vanish.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well no, they don't. For a normal person, anyway. Which is why I find the question interesting to ponder on.

Will it evoke emotion in her or will it just push her closer into her Robot state since she lost the only real human connection she had?

I might even consider Keiko to ber her morality chain. So a completely unfettered Ami could be disastrous for our plans and/or health.
 
RandomOTP said:
Honestly, I fail to even understand why Ami even did what she did.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
To me just looks like Ami wanted to tease us. As for why she didn't apologize
Velorien said:
I myself am offended at the idea that I would offend you by accident. It seems I overestimated the extent to which you understand me.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
The first sentence I see two interpretations. Being offended at Hazou, because people should not get offended at you if you meant no ill will.
Or being offended at her own incompetence for not being able to predict Hazou would get offended.
I'm not sure how the second sentence is related.

eaglejarl said:
Bringing Akane into it, with something that might damage her reputation?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Does anyone understand why getting pregnant would affect Akane's reputation?
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top