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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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Welp, talking to Hana isn't as good a bet now, but maaaaaybe it'll still work? Like...

HAZOU: Hey mom, you're a girl. Can you help me with girl stuff?
HANA: Sure, cricket. Is this about Akane?
HAZOU: Yeah! So during the Exams she got really upset about me using her, and said she didn't know if things would work between us. I saw her recently and I think things are fine, cause she said she's happy we can still be friends, but I want to figure out how to be better for her, you know?
HANA: Oh, honey.
 
MadScientist said:
Honestly, I find this a little unsimulationist. Real personality traits don't require a positive and negative aspect. It should be possible to be sincere without that causing you to also be unempathetic/emotionally-unhealthy/whatever. I know it's a feature of the system, but it bugs me.
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I feel like I want to respond to this two ways.

1. There's no such requirement in the system. Hazou isn't required to have this personality traits be Aspects, or if he did it doesn't have to be a Trouble Aspect. Trouble Aspects can be purely external things like "Bad Luck" or (my favorite one ever) "A Very Punchable Face".

2. But actually... I quoted it earlier as a witty little aphorism, but I think that real life personality aspects very often do have a positive and negative aspect. "The thing that makes you awesome is the thing that makes you suck." Very often in real life the same drives and personality traits that can lead people to greatness are the exact same traits that can bring them disaster. It's not hard at all to think of examples. The charismatic charmer who can make anyone feel like the center of the world but who is also prone to infidelity due to misusing the ability. The self-confident great man whose unshakeable faith in his own destiny lets him accomplish what others would never dare but who is also prone to destructive arrogance. Etc. Of course it's not universally true, but strong personality traits and talents are often a double-edged sword.
 
Langevin said:
Welp, talking to Hana isn't as good a bet now, but maaaaaybe it'll still work? Like...

HAZOU: Hey mom, you're a girl. Can you help me with girl stuff?
HANA: Sure, cricket. Is this about Akane?
HAZOU: Yeah! So during the Exams she got really upset about me using her, and said she didn't know if things would work between us. I saw her recently and I think things are fine, cause she said she's happy we can still be friends, but I want to figure out how to be better for her, you know?
HANA: Oh, honey.
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Maybe if we did that before this update. Now Hazou believes that everything is copacetic at the moment.
 
Drasky said:
Maybe if we did that before this update. Now Hazou believes that everything is copacetic at the moment.
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It seems entirely in keeping with Hazou's character for him to want to learn to be better, even if the situation seems fine at the moment. I agree he probably wouldn't frame it this way by default, but it seems like if we put it in a plan it wouldn't be vetoed as OOC.
 
Drasky said:
Maybe if we did that before this update. Now Hazou believes that everything is copacetic at the moment.
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Heh.

  • Hazou will ask Noburi, Mari, Ino, Jiraiya and Hana for girl advice.
    • Hazou explains the (now fixed) Akane Situation to each of them.
    • Hazou is very glad that Akane is dispelled of any thoughts of them "Never being friends." and is really glad that his response of "They will always be friends." seemed to fix the issue.
      • Gee, what a silly thing to worry about.
    • Regardless, he asks for advice on how to better navigate such complex social situations.
      • In particular he doesn't want to fuck up his relationship with his girlfriend again.
        • Hazou will go pretty damn far for Akane, in this respect.
 
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.... truck scrolls? Last time I brought it up I was told it was "too soon". So... when is the "right time?". Could we bring it up when we talk about shadow clone training?
 
MMKII said:
Heh.

  • Hazou will ask Noburi, Mari, Ino, Jiraiya and Hana for girl advice.
    • Hazou explains the (now fixed) Akane Situation to each of them.
    • Hazou is very glad that Akane is dispelled of any thoughts of them "Never being friends." and is really glad that his response of "They will always be friends." seemed to fix the issue.
      • Gee, what a silly thing to worry about.
    • Regardless, he asks for advice on how to better navigate such complex social situations.
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Only if we can do this off screen. Or if I can sleep for a week through it. :p

(Actually, that sounds pretty good regardless...)
 
Incidentally, in regard to Hazō's alleged loss of ability to pick up on things:

Velorien said:
Keiko had never once spoken of being homesick, yet Hazō couldn't help noticing that the constellations were painted as if seen from Mist.
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Velorien said:
There was still no expression on her face, but Hazō knew her well enough to see the tell-tale signs of how much effort that was taking. Any moment now, she'd find an excuse to retreat into the Frozen Skein and he'd lose his chance to support the part of her that needed it most.
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Lets be honest, the real Hazou would probably say something more like this:

Langevin said:
HAZOU: Hey mom, you're a girl. Can you help me with girl stuff?
HANA: Sure, cricket. Is this about Akane?
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HAZOU: She has been sending me signals and I think she wants me to propose. Do you have any tips on how pull that off, preferably in public in front of all our friends acquaintances so everyone can bask in our love?
 
Cariyaga said:
God though @Velorien You really killed it with that chapter, particularly with Keiko and Tenten.
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So, I get that tearing up the note was supposed to be like "the thing you're saying is invalid", but it does seem kinda callous to just tear up something she put that much work into? Idk, it just doesn't "read right" to me.

I think maybe in a more confident and less touch-phobic person it would've been "rip up -> kiss Tenten", rather than kissing the paper and ripping it, which feels more ambiguous. Luckily Tenten probably reads this a lot more clearly than I do :p
 
Roomba said:
Do you really think Hazou can actually "turn" or "seduce" anyone, as he is right now? That's just a bit ridiculous in my view.
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Yes I absolutely think he could. It would take a sustained effort by the player base over several months but there's no reason we couldn't do it if we tried at all.

Roomba said:
Especially given that there's no indication that Neji's situation is at all similar to canon, or that he resents his clan.
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I'd agree if he didn't fuck up so badly in the chunnin exams. We have a new opportunity here.

Roomba said:
I just want Hazou to be friendly and get along with people, be they clanless ninja, lower status clan prodigies like Neji, or heirs like Hinata. We don't have to become best friends with all of them, but hanging out with Neji definitely does not demand that we actively snub Hinata.
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That's fine but everything has a cost. Look back to the 4th event to how we alienated team clanless by engaging in high level politics talks while ignoring them.

I don't particularly care what social strategy we use. I'm just hoping we think through whatever we decide to do instead of just muddling our way through it
 
Let's try to make the discussion about Hazou's Aspect less adversarial, and more focused on constructive solutions to the problem. The chapter really was amazing, and I don't want @Velorien to walk away with the impression that the compel was all anyone cared about.

Briefvoice said:
2. But actually... I quoted it earlier as a witty little aphorism, but I think that real life personality aspects very often do have a positive and negative aspect. "The thing that makes you awesome is the thing that makes you suck." Very often in real life the same drives and personality traits that can lead people to greatness are the exact same traits that can bring them disaster. It's not hard at all to think of examples. The charismatic charmer who can make anyone feel like the center of the world but who is also prone to infidelity due to misusing the ability. The self-confident great man whose unshakeable faith in his own destiny lets him accomplish what others would never dare but who is also prone to destructive arrogance. Etc. Of course it's not universally true, but strong personality traits and talents are often a double-edged sword.
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I guess part of the problem is that it feels like a single-edged sword right now. We don't really get any mileage out of the positive side of it.
 
Roomba said:
Let's try to make the discussion about Hazou's Aspect less adversarial, and more focused on constructive solutions to the problem. The chapter really was amazing, and I don't want @Velorien to walk away with the impression that the compel was all anyone cared about.
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Something like "Hero/Savior Complex" would be ideal IMO.
 
Briefvoice said:
2. But actually... I quoted it earlier as a witty little aphorism, but I think that real life personality aspects very often do have a positive and negative aspect. "The thing that makes you awesome is the thing that makes you suck." Very often in real life the same drives and personality traits that can lead people to greatness are the exact same traits that can bring them disaster. It's not hard at all to think of examples. The charismatic charmer who can make anyone feel like the center of the world but who is also prone to infidelity due to misusing the ability. The self-confident great man whose unshakeable faith in his own destiny lets him accomplish what others would never dare but who is also prone to destructive arrogance. Etc. Of course it's not universally true, but strong personality traits and talents are often a double-edged sword.
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I feel like these aren't a single trait, but a combination of traits. Charisma and disloyalty aren't a package deal. Nor are confidence and arrogance. They definitely can be (you can't be arrogant without also being confident, etc.), but I don't think it's ubiquitous enough to need clarification that it's not universally true, as this implies that it's nearly universally true, which I don't think it is.
 
Roomba said:
I guess part of the problem is that it feels like a single-edged sword right now. We don't really get any mileage out of the positive side of it.
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I think there have been many cases where Hazou has gained the benefit of the doubt from characters who sense that he speaks from the heart and says what he means, but this lack of filters is also often what gets him in trouble.
 
fictionfan said:
The mist isn't very far away. I would not expect there to be much different in the stars. Hazo must be amazingly perceptive.
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Alternately, EN world is much smaller than Earth but more dense. Like some sort of Mari-Hazou blend.


Tua said:
Lets be honest, the real Hazou would probably say something more like this:


HAZOU: She has been sending me signals and I think she wants me to propose. Do you have any tips on how pull that off, preferably in public in front of all our friends acquaintances so everyone can bask in our love?
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Augh. On the plus side, that'd get Mari and Hana talking to Akane...

Man, it's gonna suck when Mari or Ino beats Hazou over the head with the cluebat.
 
MMKII said:
Something like "Hero/Savior Complex" would be ideal IMO.
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I've always thought that our influence on Hazou's mind should make him develop a Messiah Complex. The way we think about our participation in the world, how we're the only ones with real agency and are therefore responsible for everything, resulting in neurotically bullheaded attempts at fixing every problem we encounter - all this should translate to an obsession with "fixing things" in an actual person constantly bombarded with plans to do that exactly.

It even neatly explains Hazou's problems recognizing the agency of other people. In his heart of hearts, he believes they have none, and that it's all on him.
 
Is the only civilization on the planet only the Elemental Nations?

We should talk to the Pangolins if they heard anything beyond the EN, or they might not make the distinction.
 
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