- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
I support this proposal
Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
- Start date
-
- Tags
- naruto rational rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
I support this proposal
- Location
- Potato land
I'm cool with illusion Henge as well. It's more difficult to use effectively, which makes it more fun to abuse.
Well, at the very least it's good to see that my mental model of QM chat is fairly accurate.
Well, at the very least it's good to see that my mental model of QM chat is fairly accurate.
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Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
It doesn't have to be blatant. Scatter clues around to start making people nervous. They'll hurry out once the temperature starts going up.
When we get a significant portion of people drunk and make them sweat profusely they're gonna have a hard time concentrating if the dehydration aspect doesn't get them first.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Plus illusion-henge would make for a neat bit of paraellelism in the primary techniques taught in ninja academy:
Substitution falls in line with taijutsu, Henge falls in like with genjutsu, and Clone falls in line with ninjutsu, inasmuch as the techniques primary use cases go.
It would also improve the historical... etymology (is there a word for the history of a technique?) of Henge: It's a clone technique that attaches to your form, matching movement, and may be a certain amount different.
Substitution falls in line with taijutsu, Henge falls in like with genjutsu, and Clone falls in line with ninjutsu, inasmuch as the techniques primary use cases go.
It would also improve the historical... etymology (is there a word for the history of a technique?) of Henge: It's a clone technique that attaches to your form, matching movement, and may be a certain amount different.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Nah, even I'm not proposing that. My preferred version would be that the event happens a day or so from now and that, even when it happens, existing henges don't pop but no one is able to cast it from now on. Metaphorically speaking, 'henge.dll' gets deleted from 'chakraOS'. (NB: That is a metaphor. Please do not start truthing about how I've confirmed that MfD!verse is a simulation.
)Hells no! It must be gone! Do you hear me?! Gone! Not illusionary, not physical, nothing! Nada! I do not want to deal with this nightmare ever again!!!!!1!!!!!!!!!11!!
[On further thought, excised offer of XP to bribe player base into voting to remove the damn thing as unfairly pressuring @Velorien and @OliWhail after we agreed to table the issue. Tempting, though]
- Location
- The Maple Syrup Mountains
Henge isn't a major part of how we go about things, it's a tool in our toolkit but we've never really come up with anything that gives us a particularly strong advantage from it so it wouldn't feel punishing or anything if we lost it.
I agree that it vanishing in the middle of this event would be a little too obviously 'QMs interfering with the world for their own ends', but it sounds like a good way to break up a comfortable research update in Leaf or something, send the world into a panic for a little while trying to get everything sorted out.
I agree that it vanishing in the middle of this event would be a little too obviously 'QMs interfering with the world for their own ends', but it sounds like a good way to break up a comfortable research update in Leaf or something, send the world into a panic for a little while trying to get everything sorted out.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Honestly the problem also disappears if we stop trying to munchkin the Henge mechanics that double as low hanging fruit but also as an extremely complicated and mentally torturous physics breaking technique.
I honestly think axing Henge would make the setting 300x safer. You know someone's going to find some way to literally destroy the world with it.
I mean... we did.
I'm not sure how I would feel about losing Henge, but having it be eaten by a sealing failure is certainly something believable within the narrative, so it would be hard to make an argument of it being unfair. Similarly, I wouldn't be annoyed if a war happened because of it: it's a believable thing to happen. And it's not like we lack experience turning chaos to our advantage.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
This isn't a joke: I'm actually not sure we're capable of that. I mean, half the henge breaks so far weren't even things we intended to use, it was just some random person going "hey, huh, henge does X, which means Y".
(Like with the chakraclipping that I've been meming about for the past few pages.
Solution to WW4 - the Watchers show up. Every single Kage is notified of exactly what happened, exactly who was to blame, and that every individual with awareness of the research that caused henged.dll to be deleted has been dealt with. Permanently. This may have resulted in a small, unaffiliated clan of seal masters having been wiped off the face of the earth.
Several prominent seal masters receive their own notices much as Jiraiya was after his weaponized seal failure that they are in no circumstances to try to encapsulate a jutsu into a seal. This includes Hazou. Kagome is not visited, as he is not dumb enough to try in the first place.
All relevant parties being notified by a... kind of trustworthy authority that the culprits are dealt with should be enough to prevent a war. Everyone is equally affected anyways, so it's not like their rivals suddenly have an advantage over them.
As far as losing the tool, I am fine with it as long as everyone else loses it, which is what would happen. It isn't one of our core tools anyways. If it makes the lives of my QMs easier, all the better.
Humorous alternative - all henge become naked, attractive, gender swapped versions of the user, similar to Naruto's variant of the technique. This includes obscuring fog, which hides the naughty bits and renders the technique a nigh useless party trick.
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
Yeah I still think we can fix some of these issues with a little remodeling. Honestly it boils down to a reasonable way chakra constructs need to work in general, and the answer I think should be "Most are as fragile as canon Henge/Shadow Clones " barring a truly dense and excessive amount of chakra put in , along with the required level of chakra control (which preserves any balance issues).
You might have to tweak the specifics to get rid of edge case shit but modeling it as some sort of semi permeable chakra construct film should get rid of 99% of the shit we could think of with the rest being a judgement call.
Vecht
Self-Requested Ban
- Location
- Snarksville, Snarkland
@eaglejarl
Less worldbreaking than henge.dll getting deleted would be everyone just forgetting it existed (again, due to a sealing incident). There are even MFD!Canon examples of things like this happening already.
One moment, Henge is a thing. The next, no one remembers it ever existed, no one notices it didn't never-exist yesterday, people who relied on it and were good wonder why they're getting worse with ordinary disguise jutsu (which always existed, but no one cared because Henge), and the exploits of infiltration-spec ninja of the past slowly become the thing of legend. Additionally, anyone who thinks too long or hard about the subject gets distracted and their mind wanders, similar to what happens when you are falling asleep.
Less worldbreaking than henge.dll getting deleted would be everyone just forgetting it existed (again, due to a sealing incident). There are even MFD!Canon examples of things like this happening already.
One moment, Henge is a thing. The next, no one remembers it ever existed, no one notices it didn't never-exist yesterday, people who relied on it and were good wonder why they're getting worse with ordinary disguise jutsu (which always existed, but no one cared because Henge), and the exploits of infiltration-spec ninja of the past slowly become the thing of legend. Additionally, anyone who thinks too long or hard about the subject gets distracted and their mind wanders, similar to what happens when you are falling asleep.
- Location
- Potato land
Going back to the plan discussion, one remaining decision we have to make is who to notify about the EM Gambit and in what way.
Each person notified is an additional opsec risk, of the conversation being overheard or them giving it away in some other way, possibly malicious.
On the other hand, some of them can be genuinely helpful to us. The plan currently extends an offer of cooperation to Team Asuma in return for them donating some chakra to Noburi.
Finally, we may be stepping on others' plans and depriving them of points. While this is a competitive event, it's in line with our conduct thus far, and with our focus on cooperation, to at least inform our former allies of an attempt to derail the event.
What are everyone's thoughts?
I'd also like to point to this post by Cariyaga, and ask for opinions on what we should focus on.
Each person notified is an additional opsec risk, of the conversation being overheard or them giving it away in some other way, possibly malicious.
On the other hand, some of them can be genuinely helpful to us. The plan currently extends an offer of cooperation to Team Asuma in return for them donating some chakra to Noburi.
Finally, we may be stepping on others' plans and depriving them of points. While this is a competitive event, it's in line with our conduct thus far, and with our focus on cooperation, to at least inform our former allies of an attempt to derail the event.
What are everyone's thoughts?
I'd also like to point to this post by Cariyaga, and ask for opinions on what we should focus on.
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- Location
- The Deep Blue Sea
I deal with enough absurd bureaucracy as part of grad school, I should be entitled to take it out on you lot!
Emstar
The Shining One
- Location
- Trapped in an extradimensional rift.
- Pronouns
- She/They
We should notify the bare minumum required to pull the plan off. We're already past halftime in this event and it's getting pretty close to sink or swim. Akane can tell her teammates I suppose and Shikamaru should be able to figure out a way to save his team regardless. It's not in anyone's game theoretic interest to bargain with us at this point.
We should just target and drain some third party ninja instead. The time for village teamwork was the opening rounds of the exam, we are already in the individual events and I think asking our fellow Team Uplift members for assistance now is pushing the envelope already.
While outright cooperation I think with our Superteam leaf buds is a "no" in my book, I think giving them a few minutes warning that things are going tits up is fair play and consistent with our behavior so far.
I think to be honest that a lot of this is fine the way it is. I'm even for adding in some way the Fake Bomb threat accompanied by staged suicide clone along with getting everyone mildly intoxicated.
See, look at it from this perspective:
We are sure to get some points from ID-ing everyone via the sweat. If we can get some of them DQed due to stupid intoxicated decisions of their making and or them breaking character to deal with our shenanigans, that's just icing on the cake. The chief priorities of all of this are:
1) Try to contact our contact person with the reverse game
2) Try to get some points in by ID-ing more ninja
3)Create a sufficient amount of chaos that it allows us to do the above successfully while also acting as a spanner in the works for everyone else's 4th quarter game plans.
Better yet, people remember that some technique called henge existed, that they previously used it in missions, but they don't remember what it did or how to do it. Written reports about it being used exist, but whole portions describing the uses are just empty whitespace. Training scrolls just have a label and nothing else.
Thusly Hazou remembers using EM to make people sweat, and that it has something to do with henge, but not what. Exam rule sheets reference consequences for breaking henge, but nobody knows what that means. The world is left scratching their heads.
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- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
'Reasonable', huh? Looks like I get to be on the other side for once. Hold my beer.
Me: Ooh, ooh, MMKII, a few questions about henge! When you're under henge...
- If it's a chakra construct, is your physical body inside it or shunted off to another dimension or what?
- How dense are you when you're henged? More or less than normal?
- If less dense than normal, does that mean you get a stealth bonus because your footprints aren't as deep / you don't exert as many newtons on things that might creak / etc?
- Can you eat or drink?
- Can you be poisoned?
- Can you excrete?
- Can you suffocate?
- Can you catch a disease? Will the disease still be there when the henge pops?
- If an eyelash naturally falls off, does that break your henge?
- If a hair naturally falls off, does that break your henge?
- If someone pulls one hair out of your scalp, does that break your henge?
- If someone pulls a thread out of your shirt, does that break your henge?
- How about if it's just one fiber?
- If one fiber doesn't matter, what happens if you pull the entire suit of clothes apart, one fiber at a time?
- If you clip your nails, does that break your henge? Does it matter how much of your nail you clip off?
- Can you integrate material back into a henge -- e.g., sewing a patch on a henged shirt without popping it?
- Can you take off your henged shirt? Does it matter if you're still touching it?
- Can you henge into a person who is 50' tall but not very dense so the mass stays the same? How about 1" tall but super dense?
- You're carrying a bunch of gear and you henge into a form that is naked. Can you still get to the gear?
- Where do the things that you're wearing/carrying go when you henge?
- Can you henge away seals?
- Can you henge seals into existence?
- Could you henge away Zabuza's sword?
- How about Asuma's chakra-metal knives?
- How about a summoning contract?
- In order to be affected by a genjutsu the user must (normally) be able to see your eyes. Do henged eyes count?
- If you're bleeding and you henge into a non-bleeding form, are you still bleeding inside the henge?
- If you're drowning, can you henge into yourself except with oxygen in your lungs instead of water?
- If you're in a poisonous atmosphere or a vacuum can you keep henging into "myself-with-oxygen-in-lungs" in order to not be affected?
- Can you henge into yourself but with six arms? Or a tail? Or a forked tongue? Or eagle eyes so that your eyes work like a telescope? Or yourself but with eyes in the back of your head as well as the front?
- Can you henge into a smarter version of yourself?
- Can you henge into yourself with a Wakahisa chakra system?
- If Keiko henges into a copy of Hazō, does she get to use the Iron Nerve?
- Can you always exactly reproduce a henge you've used before, or do you have to worry about maybe not getting the details right?
- Are henges strong enough to last through sex? How vigorous can the sex be? (Assume all parties are adults.) Does it make any difference if...how to put this?...if there's no "tab A into slot B" action?
- If henge can survive sex, can you get pregnant if you have sex while henged?
- If you're drunk, can you henge into 'yourself without alcohol in your blood'?
- If you're hungry, can you henge into 'yourself, but with food in your belly'?
- If you're tired, can you henge into 'yourself, but not tired'?
- What happens to your physical body while you're henged? Does it continue to age? If not, how does it form memories?
- If I can henge into people and objects, why can't I henge into animals?
(Sidebar: Anyone who asks any of these questions will be thwapped with a herring. After that, the QMs will start getting...creative...in sharing our resulting headaches. Mwahahaha.)
Yes, but that's where we are now. :<
That's hard to depict on the page, though -- something ceasing to work is easy, because you simply show people trying and failing to use it. If they actually forget about it, what do you write?
- Location
- The Void
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Just saying that making it an illusion fixes almost all of these. While not breaking the setting at all
Edit: also this is me asking for you to depower us. We all know how I normally feel about these sorts of things
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Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
This also makes an opportunity to look for Hazou's secret role partner.
On which note: Will we be looking for our secret role partner at all?
- Location
- Potato land
Attacking another ninja comes with its own problems. It may not be easy without breaking their Henge, and doing that risks DQ if a proctor happens to see it. There is a point in the plan that says to ambush and drain someone in the maze if it can be done safely.
For Team Asuma, the policy is that we warn them, and then, if they express interest in joining, extract a payment in chakra. We're not asking for assistance, as we don't really need it.
How about a plot to release gas in the manor that is supposed to induce extreme sneezing? Ninja would fear this would break their Henge, while civilians would just shrug at the inscrutable ninja silliness.
We're doing the Second Level Game. Do you also want to do improv somehow indicating Hazou is a Leaf traitor?