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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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faflec said:
WHAT THE HELL WHY WOULD YOU EVEN DELIBERATELY CREATE A SEALING FAILURE ARE YOU CRAZY OF COURSE YOU'RE CRAZY WE'RE ALL CRAZY THAT LAST SEAL MUST HAVE GONE WRONG AND NO ONE KNOWS AND NOW HE WANTS TO INVOKE THE DEVOURING SUN AND PUT AN END TO EVERYTHING BEFORE THE SPIDERS START COMING OUT OF EVERYONE'S EYESOCKETS AND IT'S ALL MY FAULT
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I mean, if you're so worried about sealing failure why are you voting for Keep Your Head?

I'm assuming at a minimum there are fifty seals in circulation. If the actual number was this low I could barely conceive that this would be possible, so that seems to be a reasonable lower bound.

I'm also assuming that as the competition goes on, teams accumulate seals without destroying them, simply by stealing/beating the shit out of the other teams. This picks up especially towards the endgame, where we now have multiple teams with multiple seals.

I would find it pretty unbelievable if there weren't multiple teams with more than three seals in the endgame, so that's the assumption going forward.

While hiding the seals are an option, it's a highly dangerous one, considering the seals glow, and if anyone can find it without you around to defend it you're done. I will assume no top contender battles without their seals.

That means that every fight between top contenders has at minimum six points of seal failure. The worst part is that seal failure will likely compound; one seal failing in close proximity to the other two will likely cause the others to fail; at that point, you have three seal failures, feeding into each other. It could do nothing, or it could create a chain reaction which breaks the other three seals belonging to the other team, or it could open a portal to blademonsters, etc. I think the compounding seal failures would tilt towards having the kind of effect which gets the other three seals in the fight involved, which would also magnify the Minimum Safe Distance.


This is just when seals are so rare that I don't think it makes sense - what happens when there are hundreds, or thousands, or in some of the worst possible cases, tens of thousands? When each fight between top contenders involves dozens of activated seals?

It seems to me that taking the risk that all the top contenders will take down all of their opponents with techniques that will absolutely not destroy the seals, and the defeated party doesn't destroy their own seals when they know they're beaten, thus increasing the risk factor, is too much of a gamble; even if there are only a hundred or so teams and sixteen top contenders, that still makes for roughly a dozen fights where seal integrity is not guaranteed.
 
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faflec said:
Compared to ANBU? Yes, I think she's not as good.

If she was that good Keiko wouldn't be able to summon her.
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Stop saying ANBU. Strike that term from your mind. They're ninja of skill ranging from Chuunin to Jounin, far more chuunin than jounin given Mist's situation.

The average jounin will not likely have more than 50 awareness, and it is implausible for them to keep awareness-enhancing techniques up at all times. On the other hand, Panashe is capable of utilizing the stealth-enhancing techniques she is bound to have as a specialist in the field of stealth.

If they noticed her before she stole the bag, no harm no foul. If they noticed her afterwards, she could break line of sight and poof off to the summon world, no harm no foul. If they somehow manage to catch her, she can poof off to the summon realm.

And even if they connect them to us, we are not attacking them.

e: Oh, also, she seems fully capable of judging for herself whether her target is one she can sneak up on.

e2: That said, I'll put in that she should wait until the proctor is distracted (with other examinees, etc.) to do it if you vote for it.
 
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150 decibel banshee seals are absolutely bonkers, if we're going to do that can we at least set them to something that doesn't cause immediate class A injury plus to anyone in the vicinity without protection? @Cariyaga
 
Citrus said:
150 decibel banshee seals are absolutely bonkers, if we're going to do that can we at least set them to something that doesn't cause immediate class A injury plus to anyone in the vicinity without protection? @Cariyaga
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I note that Keep Your Head has it at 160 (which is actually higher than we can infuse right now), as well, but point. Can't have Banshee Slayers active all the time (I don't think??), anyway.
 
@Radvic can we have more reasonable volume banshee seals please?

Thanks for pointing it out, didn't even notice that @Cariyaga

Like it may not seem crazy high, but sounds at this level are basically equivalent to dropping large-range explosive seals (which may high-decibel banshee seals a little unbalanced tbh)
 
Citrus said:
@Radvic can we have more reasonable volume banshee seals please?

Thanks for pointing it out, didn't even notice that @Cariyaga

Like it may not seem crazy high, but sounds at this level are basically equivalent to dropping large-range explosive seals (which may high-decibel banshee seals a little unbalanced tbh)
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Are there any other objections to my plan, if you'd like to vote for it?
 
Cariyaga said:
Stop saying ANBU. Strike that term from your mind. They're ninja of skill ranging from Chuunin to Jounin, far more chuunin than jounin given Mist's situation.

The average jounin will not likely have more than 50 awareness, and it is implausible for them to keep awareness-enhancing techniques up at all times. On the other hand, Panashe is capable of utilizing the stealth-enhancing techniques she is bound to have as a specialist in the field of stealth.

If they noticed her before she stole the bag, no harm no foul. If they noticed her afterwards, she could break line of sight and poof off to the summon world, no harm no foul. If they somehow manage to catch her, she can poof off to the summon realm.

And even if they connect them to us, we are not attacking them.

e: Oh, also, she seems fully capable of judging for herself whether her target is one she can sneak up on.

e2: That said, I'll put in that she should wait until the proctor is distracted (with other examinees, etc.) to do it if you vote for it.
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Does it matter? We all saw Panashe note that the Awareness of several Genin teams was high enough that she didn't want to risk getting caught. Yet you expect her to function well enough against proctors, who are (by your own statement) at least Chunin level?
 
@OliWhail @eaglejarl @Velorien Can we have clarification on Panashe's approximate skill level in stealth, as well as any techniques usable for it? Given that Keiko got her ahead of time having foreseen the team's weakness there it's plausible that she'd have had the opportunity to gauge it.
faflec said:
Does it matter? We all saw Panashe note that the Awareness of several Genin teams was high enough that she didn't want to risk getting caught. Yet you expect her to function well enough against proctors, who are (by your own statement) at least Chunin level?
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Frankly, I think that if Panashe is that bad at stealth then Kei got gyped. I expect Chuunin to have ~35 and Jounin to have ~45 Awareness.

I would be surprised if Panashe had less than 40 base stealth and got less than 15-20 from whatever specialized techniques she knows. Because she's, you know, a specialist.
 
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Citrus said:
@Radvic can we have more reasonable volume banshee seals please?

Thanks for pointing it out, didn't even notice that @Cariyaga

Like it may not seem crazy high, but sounds at this level are basically equivalent to dropping large-range explosive seals (which may high-decibel banshee seals a little unbalanced tbh)
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150 decibel is around the threshold for rupturing eardrums. That's why it's called earbusters, though sometime it's also called banshee.

As far as I can tell, you ain't going to kill anyone, though you'll make their ears bleed.
 
faflec said:
Does it matter? We all saw Panashe note that the Awareness of several Genin teams was high enough that she didn't want to risk getting caught. Yet you expect her to function well enough against proctors, who are (by your own statement) at least Chunin level?
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To be fair, genin teams enrolled in the Chunin exam. If they can't meet the bare minimum for chuunin then they shouldn't be here, and you're going to get plenty of specialists who are beyond bare minimum. And Panashe needs to not just beat them, but beat them with 100% confidence.
 
Briefvoice said:
To be fair, genin teams enrolled in the Chunin exam. If they can't meet the bare minimum for chuunin then they shouldn't be here, and you're going to get plenty of specialists who are beyond bare minimum. And Panashe needs to not just beat them, but beat them with 100% confidence.
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Also, she likely wasn't using any techniques at the time. There wasn't any great impetus to waste her chakra at that time.
 
Cariyaga said:
Are there any other objections to my plan, if you'd like to vote for it?
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I think sending Panashe off to steal seals isn't too wise, especially considering how it'd appear and how others would react. Especially since Panashe wasn't comfortable le approaching some genin under the combat restrictions Keiko set. Assuming he doesn't refuse, would not want to risk him being 'killed' and losing his summons for a crucial portion of the exams.

Idk, I like radvic's plan more but I 100% like yours over the other alternatives. I may vote yours at some point depending on the votal but holding off for now

Edit: whoops faflec pointed it out already alas
 
Kiba said:
150 decibel is around the threshold for rupturing eardrums. That's why it's called earbusters, though sometime it's also called banshee.

As far as I can tell, you ain't going to kill anyone, though you'll make their ears bleed.
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Do you have a specific source by any chance? I was trying to look some stuff up myself and was surprised at how different various sources were on it. Also, eardrum bursting volume is very likely to damage the middle ear in a more irreversible way (while strict eardrum rupture say from direct trauma or infection is unlikely to be unhealable)
 
Citrus said:
Do you have a specific source by any chance? I was trying to look some stuff up myself and was surprised at how different various sources were on it. Also, eardrum bursting volume is very likely to damage the middle ear in a more irreversible way (while strict eardrum rupture say from direct trauma or infection is unlikely to be unhealable)
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Not really. I googled for sources, just like you did. Widely inconsistent.
 
Citrus said:
Do you have a specific source by any chance? I was trying to look some stuff up myself and was surprised at how different various sources were on it. Also, eardrum bursting volume is very likely to damage the middle ear in a more irreversible way (while strict eardrum rupture say from direct trauma or infection is unlikely to be unhealable)
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When we were trying to invent Banshees in the first place, we wanted to aim for 'bursts eardrums' and we tossed around a bunch of sources that didn't agree on much. General consensus was that eardrums burst 'around' 150 dB, so when the QMs had Hazou research Banshees they pegged the objective volume at 150 dB.

In short, Banshees are by design 'loud enough to burst eardrums' and the corresponding dB is a bit tangential.

edit: also I think it was ruled mednin can heal eardrums damaged in this way.
 
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huhYeahGoodPoint said:
It could do nothing, or it could create a chain reaction which breaks the other three seals belonging to the other team, or it could open a portal to blademonsters, etc.
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Bear in mind that blade monsters resulted from a single seal with negligible chakra. Let's call it 0.5CP, generously.

Each night light seal contains up to 20 times that, depending on how long it's been active. In a battle between strong teams, it's not hard to imagine a sealing failure involving a thousand times as much chakra as the one that summoned blade monsters.

I know we as human beings are really bad at properly imagining that kind of scope - we react the same way to 1000 birds being killed by an oil slick, or 100000 - so let's try to put it in perspective.

First, there is no way that the failure can be contained like the blade monsters. It will not be supervised by Kagome; it will be in a swamp, in combat. So whatever comes through the rift, it will roam free.

What will come through? Highly unpredictable. But if there is any kind of proportionality between chakra and incursion, we can expect something on par with over 1000 blade monsters. Running free.

Now, let's suppose that a prepared S-class ninja can deal with 5 blade monsters at once. And there are maybe...50 such ninja? Generously. Including Akatsuki, all the kages, etc. Anyway, they'll still be outmatched, 4 to 1 or more, and that's not even counting the fact that they need to catch the monsters first.

Mist will quickly be wiped off the map, and every exam contestant will have to flee. Depending on the exact incursion, skywalkers may or may not help. The surrounding countryside and all inhabitants, especially civilians, will quickly be consumed. If there are escapees, and if they can get their villages to take action, maybe whatever comes out of the hole can be cut down to size and become just another hazard of the wilds. If not, the world might quickly lose everyone who can fight back and be completely overrun.

ETA Oh, and that didn't take into account the possibility that the incursion triggers further sealing failures. A 50-seal chain reaction could end the world, but there will be thousands of seals in play.
 
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Let us be very generous and say that Panashe has only 5000 XP in spite of Keiko specifically asking for competent pangolin. For comparison, Hazou has 3000 XP made over a bit over a year and a half, IIRC, and is at around the 75th percentile of ninja.

This is what she might look like. Personally, I expect her to have closer to 8000 XP, but I'm being conservative here.
 
Remember that ANBU operatives are supposed to be special ops. Even if they only have chunin level skills, it is likely that they are not your bog standard chunin.

Your pangolin might have techniques, but so do ANBU operators.
 
Kiba said:
Remember that ANBU operatives are supposed to be special ops. Even if they only have chunin level skills, it is likely that they are not your bog standard chunin.

Your pangolin might have techniques, but so do ANBU operators.
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No one but a jinchuuriki can afford the chakra cost of keeping any but the least chakra-expensive techniques up at all times. Their techniques are irrelevant, because they will not be active.

And that's completely setting aside that, frankly, I do not think they are ANBU. I think Ren lied to us.
 
ThrawnCA said:
Bear in mind that blade monsters resulted from a single seal with negligible chakra. Let's call it 0.5CP, generously.

Each night light seal contains up to 20 times that, depending on how long it's been active. In a battle between strong teams, it's not hard to imagine a sealing failure involving a thousand times as much chakra as the one that summoned blade monsters.

I know we as human beings are really bad at properly imagining that kind of scope - we react the same way to 1000 birds being killed by an oil slick, or 100000 - so let's try to put it in perspective.

First, there is no way that the failure can be contained like the blade monsters. It will not be supervised by Kagome; it will be in a swamp, in combat. So whatever comes through the rift, it will roam free.

What will come through? Highly unpredictable. But if there is any kind of proportionality between chakra and incursion, we can expect something on par with over 1000 blade monsters. Running free.

Now, let's suppose that a prepared S-class ninja can deal with 5 blade monsters at once. And there are maybe...50 such ninja? Generously. Including Akatsuki, all the kages, etc. Anyway, they'll still be outmatched, 4 to 1 or more, and that's not even counting the fact that they need to catch the monsters first.

Mist will quickly be wiped off the map, and every exam contestant will have to flee. Depending on the exact incursion, skywalkers may or may not help. The surrounding countryside and all inhabitants, especially civilians, will quickly be consumed. If there are escapees, and if they can get their villages to take action, maybe whatever comes out of the hole can be cut down to size and become just another hazard of the wilds. If not, the world might quickly lose everyone who can fight back and be completely overrun.
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I generally agree with this, and think that the comment I'm about to make could potentially be unproductive towards the thread's reasoning, but Hazou has said that more chakra doesn't necessarily mean worse seal failure, only that it might make it worse and wouldn't make it better. So it's not that we're dealing with "1000 blade monster" failure-potential, but rather up to that amount, and possibly only the normal amount.
 
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