Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest
- Thread starter eaglejarl
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- naruto rationalist romance armageddon is looking better and better damn you kishimoto explosions everywhere explosives solve everyone if in doubt surrender to the mercy of zabuza it seemed like a good idea at the time looks like a really bad case of being a jōnin my god. where does the lore end? precommitting is the winning plan screaming in kagome screw the rules i have explosives something bad might still happen sometimes you gotta sociopath stabby zabby subsection c of paragraph 9 should include we can weaponize this so hard
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- Yes.
@eaglejarl @Velorien @OliWhail Did we discuss talking to Mari-sensei about the situation, and if so how much (if any) did we want to tell her?
Also, if we asked Noburi and Akane would they agree that we should talk to her about it? Do they think Kagome would agree?
The only person opposed to telling is Kagome and for many reasons (biased because he's ashamed, biased because it'll affect him negatively, very bad at social decisions in general) his opinion should be weighed less here. Minami doesn't want to include it in her (official) report, which makes sense but is not a vote against us talking with our adopted father/mother about it-- in fact unless we've explicitly made a deal with her about it, she doesn't have any say in what we discuss with our family or clan.
Everybody else (most notably Keiko, who's opinion I weight the most here) supports telling Jiraiya, which is the most extreme option (as opposed to telling Mari), since he's the most official (clan head + hokage).
Personally, if it hadn't been for Keiko's advice, I would have said we shouldn't tell Jiraiya since as Hokage he might have an official responsibility to punish Kagome, but that it's basically necessary to tell Mari. With Keiko's input and no relevant dissent from the team/clan, we should tell Jiraiya if possible and Mari if not (she can also make the much more educated call on what to tell Jiraiya)
Everybody else (most notably Keiko, who's opinion I weight the most here) supports telling Jiraiya, which is the most extreme option (as opposed to telling Mari), since he's the most official (clan head + hokage).
Personally, if it hadn't been for Keiko's advice, I would have said we shouldn't tell Jiraiya since as Hokage he might have an official responsibility to punish Kagome, but that it's basically necessary to tell Mari. With Keiko's input and no relevant dissent from the team/clan, we should tell Jiraiya if possible and Mari if not (she can also make the much more educated call on what to tell Jiraiya)
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You have not.
We'll get back to you.
Actually, it is, insofar as that report is going straight to the Hokage's desk. Minami is effectively saying that she isn't prepared to outright lie to the Hokage by concealing the incident, but that she's willing to downplay it so that he won't realise the full gravity of the situation. There could still be consequences for her if Jiraiya then found out the truth and decided she had lied to him by omission.
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- UK
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Noburi is all for talking to Mari because it would be useful in this situation. Akane thinks you should deal with Jiraiya openly and straightforwardly, which includes not going behind his back to talk to Mari first. Both agree that Kagome would trust Mari over Jiraiya any day of the week, whether it was appropriate to the circumstances or not.
AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Surely you realize by now how much they love making us suffer?
My stance stands that we should just talk to Jiraiya about it, though. I would suggest doing so at dinner, though -- assuming we can get Mari and Jiraiya in the same room -- that way we'd have Mari to run interference and still be open and straightforward to Jiraiya.
Cool, confirmation that Minami Is talking about her choices here, not deciding for us.
@Cariyaga Jiraiya definitely comes across as a straight-shooter kinda guy, but he's already made it very clear through the killbox that we need to be careful about what we say to and around him since it forces his hand. He's also been explicit about breaking Konoha's laws as an area where he can't really use his own discretion and will instead just have to lay down the punishment. Even if it turns out that this IS something we can come straight to him with, I think he'd much rather we act with caution and check with Mari first rather than assuming so.
Also Akane's opinion here:
may reflect her honest personality more than the best thing to do in this situation.
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- Location
- Yes.
Forgot to ask, sorry, but what about Keiko?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Minami has already agreed not to pursue anything against Kagome for this. So long as he (and Mari) were the only one who knows about this, there is nothing that ties his hands -- if worse came to worst he could simply pretend he wasn't informed.
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This requires us to believe Minami is telling the truth, instead of lying to a group of missing-nin to keep herself alive.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
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- United States
That doesn't change that Jiraiya could simply pretend he heard nothing of it -- telling him now will not reflect poorly on him.
Frankly, I do not think it's likely that there will be any extreme of punishment for Kagome (death, etc.) -- certainly, he'd be kept on a tighter leash, and perhaps require therapy (which we could argue should not include mindwalking) -- if only because, as it is, Minami would fight against that.
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And my POV is exactly what Jiraiya is going to be thinking: Does Minami intend to keep her word or not?
If she keeps her word then everything goes back to "normal". But if she doesn't...
If she doesn't, Kagome is imprisoned or executed. Jiraiya's position becomes untenable as it's revealed his clan is, in fact, a bunch of traitorous missing-nin. Naruto is lost. Civil war erupts. Konoha falls.
Of course, there are ways to 100% stop this from happening. Like, say...killing Minami.
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You didn't consult her about Mari before setting out.
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- Yes.
Oh right, I'm stupid. Forgive me.
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@faflec based on new evidence can I once again ask that we talk to Jiraiya about extracting Hana just to clear up any ambiguity
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- Yes.
Yeah, I'm in the middle of writing that. Though admittedly I'm having a bit of trouble with the details (i.e., are we just asking him if we're allowed to proceed with planning; should we make actual suggestions...?). Thoughts?
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
It seems ridiculous to assume that instead of covering things up, Jiraiya would kill a loyal leaf ninja when you were just arguing that he would have to abide by Konoha laws, etc.
Frankly, I'd bet that Keiko could have a contract written up between Kagome and Nikkou that would cover for this.
Something like: "Kagome will provide to the Minami clan X explosive seals per month in exchange for confidential services rendered. If the confidential nature of these services are violated without both parties agreeing, then the violator owes [appropriate penalty]."
(And you guys thought the planning for this update would be boring.)
e: Hell, we could ask Jiraiya about the state of contract law and have him get one written up. This neatly sidesteps the issue with him knowing while still informing him that something went on
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I would mostly try to find out what the limits of engagement are. Then find if there are any assets or seals that he might be willing to grant us to help.
Cariyaga
Handsome Gentleperson
- Location
- United States
Also, inform him that we (Hazou, personally) have a way to identify ourselves to Hana as her son.
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- The frozen nethers of America
I dunno. Ill admit Im just kinda sitting back and waiting to watch that bomb cook off.