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I don't think this is a good idea. Sticking to a group is safer, but it will also limit the social, training, and information gathering options we have access to. Being in Konoha is a huge opportunity and we should strive to make most of it, even if it introduces some additional risks.
I think some of the confusion here is timescale. Yes, if we get more trust with Leaf, we can separate. However, for the next day (what I believe the timescake of our next update is), I don't think we shkuld because we haven't talked to the Hikage yet, and I think our handlers will protest (and requesting it is likely to ping on a report). I recommend caution when approaching this. I think the risk (getting mind scanned and/or increasing their suspicion of us and/or getting murdered in the street) is much greater than the marginal benefit we get from splitting up on the first day. After we've talked more and gained some level of trust, and talked to the Hokage, potentially. But hinestly, I'll be reasonably happy if se leave Leaf with just our team + Akane and no gear or equipment, and nobody trying to kill us. Anything extra is extra, and I'm not willing to risj too much to get it.

On a meta level, I'm thinking back on VHitM where we chose to go nowhere except as a group and the whole arc turned into a mess. I don't want to see that happening again.
We didn't go nowhere except as a group? We often left Kagome behind, Keiko went out on her own, and Noburi went on dates.

Best way to deal with Kagome is to give him a project to work on that keeps him busy while rest of the team does social stuff around town. Asking for sealcraft stuff as a reward seems like a really good way to do that, but I'm sure there are other activities he could use to de-stress.
Agreed on sealing things, the problem being how we get there. We could suggest something at dinner perhaps? Maybe ask to see their sealing facilities? The main challenge is maintaining cover while doing this. In fact, that's the main challenge with whatever we do.

As for actual critique, this plan is very passive and doesn't really do anything. We should set at least one main activity, person, or thing Hazou will pursue in the next update and write up an approach for it. As is the plan is just to waffle around in Leaf and see what happens.

It's not bad, but we really need to be more active.
I will note I like our first day being passive. I could go for more active in the next couple days, but I want to be very cautious.

I think we really should stop postponing the reward thing and just ask for it. We will never have all the information we need to make optimal choices, but we do need make a choice at some point or we'll never get anywhere.

Your reward outline is good enough for me and I say we go to Jiraya with it and get it done.
Agreed.

Or do you mean other people's relatives?
Yes.
They can use their own favors to get them out, though admittedly it's probably best to coordinate people leaving all at once else Yagura will tighten security on all our families at best and torturemurder the shit out of them at worst :(
Agreed. The problem I have is that we're advising Noburi and Keiko to use their favors for other things, which they may or may not enjoy, then using our favor to save our mom. This seems likely to cause strife in our team if we don't address it (e.g. how it would help our team). Especially in light of the possibility that Mist does evil things to Keiko, Noburi, and Mari's families as a result of our favor. Basically, if we say this to Jiraiya, I want us to run it by our team beforehand. The problem being that that's definitely blackmail material Root or other organizations can use against us if they know. Which makes me conflicted. It's also possible I'm freaking out about nothing.
 
If Leaf is already paying for our supplies, we might as well take this opportunity to get Noburi the materials for two additional barrels. That way he can build another one to send to the summon realm via Pandaa and the parts necessary for another barrel sealed inside of a storage scroll (that way he doesn't break the rule of "no seals in other seals").

Of course, we don't want Leaf to know what materials go into the barrel making process (or in what amounts), so we should also request for other plausible goods to be used in its construction. I would suggest at least paper since that has another use for us other than the barrel as well as additional ink. Jiraiya should hopefully acquiesce to this since Noburi losing a barrel turns him into essentially a civilian and a back-up would only help ensure our overall combat effectiveness.

We need back-up barrels or we run the risk of making the same mistake we made last time we decided to fight. Why not shore up a known weakness when our sugar daddy is paying for it?

Note that I do not want to use a favor on this: this is ninja equipment that should be covered by the fund he set aside for us. If we can't convince him to put this as an additional expense we will just have to make the back-ups before we leave on a mission.
 
Hazou only has mom in Kiri. Or do you mean other people's relatives? They can use their own favors to get them out, though admittedly it's probably best to coordinate people leaving all at once else Yagura will tighten security on all our families at best and torturemurder the shit out of them at worst :(
Point of information that Hazou would know in character:

Hana and Hazou were lone agents with no ties to the clan, so Hana has no one to speak for her. Keiko and Noburi's families are each fairly important in Mist, as well as being relatively large. Yagura could certainly snatch a clan ninja and send them off to T&I, but he wouldn't do so just on a whim. There's a limit to how much the clans can safely push back directly, but they can cause him a lot of grief through passive resistance -- dragging their feet on tasks, not volunteering solutions to problems without a direct order, etc. Everyone agrees that Yagura is the boss and he'll get what he orders, but he can't run the entire city by himself.

Inoue-sensei, of course, is not a clan ninja. Her family, whoever they are, are probably vulnerable.
 
[X] Action Plan: Seek a Tree-ty of Friendship
[-] Action Plan: Lore Update
 
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I think some of the confusion here is timescale.

Ah yes, if you were just thinking about todays outing, then I'm fine with finishing it as a group.

But hinestly, I'll be reasonably happy if se leave Leaf with just our team + Akane and no gear or equipment, and nobody trying to kill us. Anything extra is extra, and I'm not willing to risj too much to get it.

Unfortunately, that is not how we will change the world. I didn't want to come to Leaf, but since we are here, the biggest risk has already been taken and we should start making lemonade out of the lemons.

We didn't go nowhere except as a group? We often left Kagome behind, Keiko went out on her own, and Noburi went on dates.

We only went out when we absolutely had to, usually because someone from the outside forced us to. That led to us being passive and made the latter half of the arc extremely frustrating and boring.

What I'm saying is that we need to be active about things and pursue goals while in Leaf. If we don't this whole arc will turn into another VHitM and I don't think anyone wants that.

We could suggest something at dinner perhaps?

I think we need to go through J for our sealing needs. Sealing stuff is a well kept secret, and at best I could see Kagome getting access to a sealing lab to make his own stuff, but obviously we are not going to do that.

I will note I like our first day being passive. I could go for more active in the next couple days, but I want to be very cautious.

The ex-update was dramatic, but we don't want to overcompensate and stop trying things because of it.


When I said that we should be more active, I didn't necessarily mean super risky things. It was more about making decisions and choosing approaches. Take these two points from Oli's plan:

Build bridges and genuinely try to make friends; get Keiko involved where possible, and Noburi if he is not doing so on his own.

This is kinda vague. How exactly are trying to build those bridges? What topics should Hazou bring up and to whom.

Maybe chat with Chouji about Taijutsu or nutrition regiment for optimal strength growth? Or ask Ino about how those mental health professionals work? Maybe ask Shikamaru what he thinks about lists in decision making?

It will give us information about them, but it will also give them information about us by showing what we know about stuff and what we are interested in talking about. We can't build rapport if we don't share.

Yes, we are skirting some of their clan secrets, but everyone knows what their specialties are, and we can preface these topics with something like "Okay, stop me if I'm getting too close to anything I'm not suppose to know...".

Or maybe pick some other topics that will be safer, I mostly used those examples because they were the first commonalities between Hazou and Team Asuma that came to my mind.

Are there any places we should visit as if we were just average visiting dignitaries? (War memorial, Hokage monument, public parks?)

Same here, I would like to be a bit more active and pick a place Hazou would like to see. We can use it so show what Hazou is interested about and what he thinks about Konoha.

Ultimately what I want us to do is answer the question of "How to build bridges" and not leave it up to the QMs. It's less about risk/reward and more about choosing what Hazou does.
 
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Maybe we should try to do a VHitM-esque metaphor for our decision as to where to go and see if Shikamaru or someone else catches on?
 
We only went out when we absolutely had to, usually because someone from the outside forced us to. That led to us being passive and made the latter half of the arc extremely frustrating and boring.

What I'm saying is that we need to be active about things and pursue goals while in Leaf. If we don't this whole arc will turn into another VHitM and I don't think anyone wants that.
Fair enough. I believe I bowed out right around the second half of the VHitM arc, so that makes sense on why I remember it differently.

I think we need to go through J for our sealing needs. Sealing stuff is a well kept secret, and at best I could see Kagome getting access to a sealing lab to make his own stuff, but obviously we are not going to do that.
Yeah, what I'm thinking of is if there's a public library, our handlers likely know about it, and we may be able to go there.

Maybe chat with Chouji about Taijutsu or nutrition regiment for optimal strength growth? Or ask Ino about how those mental health professionals work? Maybe ask Shikamaru what he thinks about lists in decision making?
I heartily support these ideas.

I think a lot of our disagreement comes from interpreting vague statements differently, and we actually pretty much agree.
Maybe we should try to do a VHitM-esque metaphor for our decision as to where to go and see if Shikamaru or someone else catches on?
Hmm... I'd be on board, except it seems like our handlers likely don't know much of anything about us. I doubt they have the available knowledge to catch a reference. If a specific metaphor were brought up, I could potentially get behind it though.
 
Honestly, this is all a similar set of issues to my annoyance at your and @Velorien's heuristic of "If this idea is so great, why isn't everyone doing it already?". The efficient market hypothesis is not a valid approximation of a market (even markets of techniques and ideas) unless the market is huge and deeply interconnected. Both of which are very true of our world, but incredibly false for the world of MfD.
On the other hand, the MfDverse is:

- A very heavily militarised setting
- where there is an eternal cold war between five major powers and a good dozen smaller ones, all engaged in a constant arms race
- and where virtually all resources are spent on the military
- and where those in power take R&D seriously (cf. sealcraft)
- and where every single soldier in every single army is a literal superspy.
 
So, to draw attention to the obvious...

Remember in HPMoR, when Harry and Draco meet at platform 9+(3/4), and they talk about reciprocation?

Well, despite the fact that doing so made tactical sense, the fact remains that Leaf just bought all our impressionable young genin brand new sets of shiny "rich person" clothes. Which means they'll all be feeling some degree of indebtedness to Leaf, and will be willing to overlook downsides of the relationship even when it isn't necessarily sensible to do so.

*DOESN'T LOWER GUARD IN KAGOME*
 
So, to draw attention to the obvious...

Remember in HPMoR, when Harry and Draco meet at platform 9+(3/4), and they talk about reciprocation?

Well, despite the fact that doing so made tactical sense, the fact remains that Leaf just bought all our impressionable young genin brand new sets of shiny "rich person" clothes. Which means they'll all be feeling some degree of indebtedness to Leaf, and will be willing to overlook downsides of the relationship even when it isn't necessarily sensible to do so.

*DOESN'T LOWER GUARD IN KAGOME*
*INSIGHTFUL IN KAGOME*
 
[X] Action Plan: Seek a Tree-ty of Friendship
[X] Action Plan : Mix and Match
[X] Action Plan : Lore Update
[X] Training Hazou : None
[X] Training Noburi : None
[X] Training Akane : None
[X] Training Keiko : None
 
Y'know, we could get Hazou up to Deception 16 right now.

[] Training Hazou: Lying Through Our Teeth

Presence 6 [12/83]
Manipulation 8 [28/83]
Composure 6 [40/83]

Deception 15 [55/83]
Deception 16 [71/83]

Save 12 XP.



Super expensive, but it's not like we plan to train anything else here, and we are aiming for Deception 20 in the jonin build.
 
Did anyone mention playing Humans and Hallways with the leaf nin? Its a nice way to spend time and the stress levels will probably go down.
I just want to see Hazou out-munchin Shikamaru.
 
[X] Humans and Hallways

Follow the next-highest plan, but also suggest playing Humans and Hallways to our minders.
 
[X] Training Hazou: Lying Through Our Teeth

Presence 6 [12/83]
Manipulation 8 [28/83]
Composure 6 [40/83]

Deception 15 [55/83]
Deception 16 [71/83]

Save 12 XP

Anything that helps Hazou fake stability and sanity is good in my book.
 
Y'know, we could get Hazou up to Deception 16 right now.

[] Training Hazou: Lying Through Our Teeth

Presence 6 [12/83]
Manipulation 8 [28/83]
Composure 6 [40/83]

Deception 15 [55/83]
Deception 16 [71/83]

Save 12 XP.



Super expensive, but it's not like we plan to train anything else here, and we are aiming for Deception 20 in the jonin build.

We could spend a favor to gain Technique Hacking from Jiraiya, and train that up to 10 with 55 EXP. In addition, bumping Roki 1 point is necessary, as right not we have 14 Deception, which should give a bonus of 7, but is being capped by the fact that Roki is at 6.

Bumping Taijutsu 1 point to 15 and bumping Roki to 7, and saving 56 EXP would make much more sense. Although that might rely on us getting an opportunity to spar or something, and using Roki in a foreign village would be a bad idea, since they don't know it exists. As is, they know Keiko is special jonin level, but don't know that we are as well. We might be able to justify it as being because of the combat during the last mission? Pretty sure that wuldn't work, though.

All else equal, I would prefer not to go with this plan. It spends large amounts of EXP for almost no marginal gain, considering the fact that we could spend the same amount of EXP to get Taijutsu 15 e 16, Tac Move 15 e 16, Stealth 12 e 13, and Roki 7. We would eventually spend that EXP to get Deception 16, but I'd rather not get it at a time when doing so would mean we spent it so sub-optimally.

Right now, everyone in the party has large amounts of unspent EXP. We could bump the entire group up to Stealth e 15 instead, and spend the EXP left over on other things. That would cost 60 for Hazou and 65 for Keiko and Noburi. Could we train Stealth easily in Konoha, without causing any incidents? I'm relatively certain the anwer is, for the meantime, no. But, we should try to keep enough EXP banked that we can boost the party up to e 15 Stealth at the first opportunity.
 
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bumping Roki 1 point is necessary,

I thought we'd agreed not to train anything unique that we don't want Leaf to be able to spy on and analyse. Deception is okay here, but Roki certainly isn't.

We're also unlikely to get TH anytime soon. The hivemind is split on the idea, and it will take time before we can get people on board. Frankly, I'm not convinced it's worth it right now.
 
I thought we'd agreed not to train anything unique that we don't want Leaf to be able to spy on and analyse. Deception is okay here, but Roki certainly isn't.

We're also unlikely to get TH anytime soon. The hivemind is split on the idea, and it will take time before we can get people on board. Frankly, I'm not convinced it's worth it right now.

I was more just listing things we needed to save EXP for, and Roki was on the list. The idea was more that saving EXP was a better idea than spending it on something we didn't currently need, especially when there were so many things we needed to put EXP into as soon as possible.

The post was admittedly sort of rambly, but I actually stated the thing about not training things we didn't want Leaf to know about in the post.
 
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Kagome has probably already done so, but if not, Hazou and Kagome look around our quarters for monitor seals. Don't mess with them, since that would presumably piss Leaf off, but we should know where they are, and Hazou should look at any we find. Stop if a nice ANBU operative knocks on the door to tell us to knock it off.

I'm not sure I'm on board with this part. Between the ANBU and Hyuuga (and Hyuuga in the ANBU), we should probably just assume J has information on everything we do at all times. Best case scenario with looking for the seals is that we DON'T piss anyone off by doing it and we still don't know anything about the information the village can get. We might also wind up with a false sense of security if we think we found the seals.

I suppose Hazou could learn how to draw a monitoring seal blank by looking one over, but that doesn't seem worth it to me.
 
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