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Marked for Death: A Rational Naruto Quest

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eaglejarl said:
No, sorry. Shadow Clones do not benefit from bloodlines or from ACE. They also aren't penalized by bloodlines, so it's something of a wash. Noburi explains his understanding of why, based on his research results: the Shadow Clone technique creates an entirely artificial chakra system for the shadow clone that isn't actually based on the physical chakra coils of the wielder. It's why his clones don't mimic his own coils, which physically are not 'full size'. He also thinks this explains why the shadow clones weren't affected by the chakra coil-smoothing effect in Orochimaru's cave. When created, they didn't copy the user's smoothed-out coils, and whatever their chakra systems are made of, they didn't respond in the same way as biological chakra systems to the cave water.
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Huh. Why do they copy your native CR, then? Is that not based on how big your coils are?

... Does this mean Shadow Clones don't copy injuries to the chakra coils? Like, say, Consequences from Noburi's overcharge?
 
eaglejarl said:
The numbers weren't adding up, and it was infuriating. Maybe if he tried a quadsection instead of a trisection across the third chord? That was an ugly, ugly mechanic but it would probably work, which was the thing that actually mattered in his quest to kill Akatsuki...still, as his seal- and runecrafting skills advanced, Hazō had come to realize that beauty and function were not uncorrelated. Ugly mechanics worked, as his approaching sister would remind him, perhaps even well enough to satisfy the need for which they had been designed, but they would never function as well as a design that held elegance and symmetry. "Hazō." If he could only find that proper elegance...something around the localization was tweaking at his thoughts. Maybe he could "Hazō" reexamine the—

"Hazō!"

"Gahh!" He leaped to his feet. "Kei? What are you doing here? You scared the life out of me."

"I called your name twice before, yet you apparently did not hear."
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Okay, I knew we had under-leveled alertness by ninja standards, but I don't think it's that bad.

boo600 said:
Personally, I'm just hoping that Oro's spread focus means that he hasn't yet figured out how to decouple the rift (he lacks Minatosealing), and that we're about to seriously impress him.

I doubt it, and it's much more likely he's either come up with the same stuff as us, or he's come up with something complementary (push/pull runes). Still, Minatosealing, the chakdar/chakrascope, the Iron Nerve, timewarping, our replacement for Disciple of the Beyond… we have our own advantages, so I'm going to hope.
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He said he completed the push/pull work, and it sounds like unanchoring is a prerequisite for the push/pull to be usable.
And we came up with the same stuff as him, insofar as the overall approach of a set of runes consisting of one to unanchor it, one to push, and one to pull was based on what he said he was working on.
 
[X] Training Plan (Kei & Snowflake): It's Free XP
Shadow Step 20 -> 24 [45 Yamanaka XP]
Shadow Visage 20 -> 24 [45 Yamanaka XP]
9 Yamanaka XP remaining

The reasoning here is that Kei said these two would be the best shadow element jutsu to level in the short-term, and because of Shadow Apprentice's bonus, there's not much point leveling them past 24 right now.
 
ProperAttorney said:
Thank you all for taking the time to answer this! I have a few follow up questions, if that's alright.

  • How does Environmental Chakra fit into this model? Is it involved at all in the default creation of seal effects?
  • Is there normally chakra in constructs created by seals? (Earth Domes, Force Walls, Air Domes, etc).
  • How do these constructs look in Noburi's chakra sense? (Bright like human chakra, static like environmental chakra, void like no chakra)
  • Do non-constructs effect look similar to jutsu in Noburi's chakra sense?
I suppose the big question is whether seals do their business with chakra or not. Yes the explanation above says that the Human Chakra in the seal triggers the effect, but does the effect itself use chakra?
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@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Hi, sorry I hate to ping about this again, but seeing as were about to attack O'Uzu i think we need to know the answer to this. If force domes are made of chakra, Kisame can probably use Samehada to eat it, or at least use his bonkers chakra sense to detect it.
 
Hey. Do you think differences between shadowclone chakra networks and humans might be a thread for Nobo to pull on to unravel the mystery of the chakra enhancing water.
 
acidshill said:
[X] Training Plan (Kei & Snowflake): It's Free XP
Shadow Step 20 -> 24 [45 Yamanaka XP]
Shadow Visage 20 -> 24 [45 Yamanaka XP]
9 Yamanaka XP remaining

The reasoning here is that Kei said these two would be the best shadow element jutsu to level in the short-term, and because of Shadow Apprentice's bonus, there's not much point leveling them past 24 right now.
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This is only true if they make rolls, which is not necessarily the case. I think it would be better to push Shadow Step all the way up to 28, in preparation for bringing it up to 30 once we get a bit more Yamanaka XP (to provide pyramid support, bring it to parity with Substitution, and move it up an AB in case that matters). However Shadow Visage works, an extra four levels seems unlikely to make much difference.
 
Kyreneryk said:
This is only true if they make rolls, which is not necessarily the case. I think it would be better to push Shadow Step all the way up to 28, in preparation for bringing it up to 30 once we get a bit more Yamanaka XP (to provide pyramid support, bring it to parity with Substitution, and move it up an AB in case that matters). However Shadow Visage works, an extra four levels seems unlikely to make much difference.
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This. Also Kei/Snowflake won't have the combo stunts for shadow visage, while there's some speculation that Shadow Step stuntlessly combines with Substitution.

[X] Training Plan (Kei & Snowflake): Shadow Step
Shadow Step 20 -> 28 [98 Yamanaka XP]
1 Yamanaka XP remaining
 
[X] Training Plan (Kei & Snowflake): Shadow Step

Left-Hand Mutant said:
This. Also Kei/Snowflake won't have the combo stunts for shadow visage, while there's some speculation that Shadow Step stuntlessly combines with Substitution.
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We do know Shadow Visage is less impeded by that than Shadow Guardians, so there may be some non-numerical effect to it, and the name makes it sound like it might help with defence against attack types Kei doesn't have buffs for (e.g. mental attacks). But IIRC it's nearly certain that Shadow Step combines natively with Substitution, and Kei's Resolve is sky-high anyway, so your point stands.
 
ProperAttorney said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Thank you all for taking the time to answer this! I have a few follow up questions, if that's alright.

  • How does Environmental Chakra fit into this model? Is it involved at all in the default creation of seal effects?
  • Is there normally chakra in constructs created by seals? (Earth Domes, Force Walls, Air Domes, etc).
  • How do these constructs look in Noburi's chakra sense? (Bright like human chakra, static like environmental chakra, void like no chakra)
  • Do non-constructs effect look similar to jutsu in Noburi's chakra sense?
I suppose the big question is whether seals do their business with chakra or not. Yes the explanation above says that the Human Chakra in the seal triggers the effect, but does the effect itself use chakra?
Click to expand...
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ProperAttorney said:
@eaglejarl @Velorien @Paperclipped
Hi, sorry I hate to ping about this again, but seeing as were about to attack O'Uzu i think we need to know the answer to this. If force domes are made of chakra, Kisame can probably use Samehada to eat it, or at least use his bonkers chakra sense to detect it.
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Whether seal effects are chakra effects depends on the seal. As a rule, permanent creations (e.g. MEW from the ground) are not chakra effects and do not register to Noburi's senses if time has passed after their creation, though they may contain residual chakra temporarily. Constructs that disappear after the seal ceases to operate are always chakra effects.
 
Velorien said:
Whether seal effects are chakra effects depends on the seal. As a rule, permanent creations (e.g. MEW from the ground) are not chakra effects and do not register to Noburi's senses if time has passed after their creation, though they may contain residual chakra temporarily. Constructs that disappear after the seal ceases to operate are always chakra effects.
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Thank you for taking the time to answer this. It's a problem for Hazo, for sure, but it's good to know.
 
Velorien said:
Whether seal effects are chakra effects depends on the seal. As a rule, permanent creations (e.g. MEW from the ground) are not chakra effects and do not register to Noburi's senses if time has passed after their creation, though they may contain residual chakra temporarily. Constructs that disappear after the seal ceases to operate are always chakra effects.
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Ok, so Kisame's sword can eat our Force Domes.

Counterplay(for defending Leaf): set up several layers, so it takes at least a few turns to break in(and leave one rune unactivated). Have a set of SCSA Skytowers with RE2.0 set up near the top of the dome, manned 24/7.
When Kisame starts breaking the Force Domes, aim the RE2.0s at him. When he breaks the last layer, explode the shit out of him and his sword. Activate the last Force Dome to resume our defences.



If the sword is physically destructible, we've probably killed it.
If the sword turns out to be indestructible but not independently hostile, it's now caught inside the force dome so we can loot it.
If the sword turns out to be physically indestructible and independently hostile, that's a problem. If it just goes on a rampage, Tsunade/Naruto/Oro can figure out how to handle it. If it decides to eat the new Force Dome to escape or admit other Akatsuki, we don't have a good counter.
 
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Left-Hand Mutant said:
Ok, so Kisame's sword can eat our Force Domes.

Counterplay(for defending Leaf): set up several layers, so it takes at least a few turns to break in(and leave one rune unactivated). Have a set of SCSA Skytowers with RE2.0 set up near the top of the dome, manned 24/7.
When Kisame starts breaking the Force Domes, aim the RE2.0s at him. When he breaks the last layer, explode the shit out of him and his sword. Activate the last Force Dome to resume our defences.
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Better yet, figure out a way to link / sync a Remote Explosive to a Force Dome so the delivery mechanism passes cleanly through the dome, and can be set to detonate immediately on the other side.
 
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