- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
It's possible to make a sword with really heavily-refined alloys that can hold ki on the edge when projected by the user. Trunks stylists make extensive use of those.
Dragon Ball: After the End
It's possible to make a sword with really heavily-refined alloys that can hold ki on the edge when projected by the user. Trunks stylists make extensive use of those.
What about a Kienzan sharp version of Salza's Energy Blade? One that can be separated and used with the full maneuverability of a physical sword.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
That's getting into Talented-and-up Ki Control, preferably Exceptional. Trunks style already doesn't involve that particularly; practitioners prefer to focus on the swords. That said, it can be done.
- Location
- USA
I say we forget swords that have a tendency of breaking and project a short ki blade from our hand like we've seen several characters do like Zamasu and black in super. We should be able to replicate a kienzan edge with the MC's talent with ki.
Edit: Had a wild Idea. Nothing, aside from the skill it would take which we can train up, is keeping us from making a melee style focused around strikes like this and we could train to project the blade from other parts of our body or project multiple edges/blades (one for each limb for rapid db style strikes). Add in instant transmission and any enemy who isn't a buu style regenerator (and doesn't massively outclass us) is going to have a bad time. Kienzans can even wreck higher leveled opponents as long as he gap isn't something like what it was between Perfect Cell and Krillin. All you need is a denser disk/edge at higher rotational speeds (which is probably what makes the technique work) to give it more cutting power. Perhaps the end goal would be an edge we could project as a sheath from the entire body. For what it can do the Kienzan is extremely energy efficient so it wouldn't cost that much energy wise to maintain.
Edit: Had a wild Idea. Nothing, aside from the skill it would take which we can train up, is keeping us from making a melee style focused around strikes like this and we could train to project the blade from other parts of our body or project multiple edges/blades (one for each limb for rapid db style strikes). Add in instant transmission and any enemy who isn't a buu style regenerator (and doesn't massively outclass us) is going to have a bad time. Kienzans can even wreck higher leveled opponents as long as he gap isn't something like what it was between Perfect Cell and Krillin. All you need is a denser disk/edge at higher rotational speeds (which is probably what makes the technique work) to give it more cutting power. Perhaps the end goal would be an edge we could project as a sheath from the entire body. For what it can do the Kienzan is extremely energy efficient so it wouldn't cost that much energy wise to maintain.
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Kairos123
Insomniac Extraordinaire
I find the original idea to be remarkably unimpressive.
This I find to be the most damning thing about it. It does not matter how durable one is when the alternative is an all around power increase. Citing Frieza's ability to continue on loses its appeal when held up to the power that Cell (SSJ2) and Majin Buu (SSJ3) fought against. Especially when making it into something that is absurdly hard to master. I'm reminded of Trunk's strength increase and how easily it was torn apart by Cell, except this is a longer term investment.
Yes, it works in the sense that it would provide something we could incorporate into Kakara without breaking that limit that would make her reviled, but that's pretty much all it provides. By the time we master it, we'll already be in fights that need more.
That it comes from the assumption that the form would be unnatural strikes me as odd. It would certainly be undiscovered, but so was SSJ originally. I see the spread of SSJ as the obvious side effect of more and more saiyans being taught how, or knowing of its existence and figuring it out, like Vegeta. Once Goku originally mastered it, and Vegeta reversed engineered it after seeing the possibility, saiyans were taught how. Even here, we see that the knowledge of how to master SSJ is used to train it. Primal Saiyan would therefore be an undiscovered state, rather than an unnatural one. It's something that evolves along a different path, and each step would be treading new ground, and thus even harder. So I agree on difficulty to master, but am apathetic about it being inherently less powerful. Unless it could be improved upon.
If it can incorporate the energy-from-the-aether boost that SSJ grants (working alongside SSJ boosts and based in comparison to them) or it ups this ideal state based in comparison to total power-level (allowing steady power creep that would allow it to match, but not dominate SSJ forms as max power possible increases [maybe even work alongside them to inch past SSJ3, but not into SSJ4]), then I would see it as worth the effort.
However, my ideal interpretation would have it as a true alternative to SSJ rather than a supplement, spin-off, or something to add into SSJ. More of a paragon of form or perfection of saiyan genetics than SSJ's ascendance route. Whether that is through functioning like SSJ in that it provides a boost from nowhere, but it being of a difference source (perhaps within), or giving extreme improvements to base form (durability, strength, and speed) but less actual power. So long as it provided competition and generally matched what SSJ forms can do, I would be happy.
Though I have no idea if that would work through the lens of BOD power levels.
- Location
- Australia
Raditz's words were something along the line of "I see you've learned how to concentrate your energy to strike at an effectively higher power level!" It didn't seem like the concept was alien to him, just that he was surprised that his weakling little brother learned it on his own with no one to teach him.
- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy
What was Perfect Cell's power level?
Can we access the Serious Form and Max Form in our masque? It's a pure human form, isn't it?
The descriptions for Golden Oozaru, Mastered Oozaru, and the Gold are missing from the update.
Cookies can be used to increase skills. Ascended, Ultra, and Full-Power are skills that relate to the usage of Super Saiyan. Can we use cookies to increase our skill level of Super Saiyan beyond Full-Power, say...Legendary Super Saiyan?
What was Perfect Cell's power level?
Can we access the Serious Form and Max Form in our masque? It's a pure human form, isn't it?
The descriptions for Golden Oozaru, Mastered Oozaru, and the Gold are missing from the update.
Cookies can be used to increase skills. Ascended, Ultra, and Full-Power are skills that relate to the usage of Super Saiyan. Can we use cookies to increase our skill level of Super Saiyan beyond Full-Power, say...Legendary Super Saiyan?
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The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
Legendary Super Saiyan is a mutation to USSJ that renders it invincible to any attacks weaker than it.
I doubt we will obtain it.
- Location
- Australia
I wouldn't know, I stopped watching the movie half way through because it was so boring. All I know is that the form is more powerful than regular Super Saiyan.
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Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
...you do realise that Kakara is a pacifist, right? As in, extremely reluctant to learn lethal techniques?
I somehow doubt that creating a variant of one of the most deadly techniques known to her people would be easy for her, much less making it a staple of her fighting style.
- Location
- USA
She's learning everything else and wants Jaffur's deadlier techniques as well. She sees techniques as tools and knows it's better to have a lethal ability and not need it than to need it and not have it.
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I'm about to go to bed, but I have some more time.
As per BOD: Perfect Cell sat pretty at 1.540 Billion. Super Perfect Cell came in at 1.79 Billion. Neither of which was even nearly enough against a Super Saiyan 2.
Good question. You don't know, nobody's tried.
I'm leaving the wall of numbers out of the updates intentionally. The numbers are largely optional; if people want to know about them, the character sheet is right there, but for those reading through on an archive binge who don't want to spoil themselves, it's enough to know that Kakara got a new form. Which makes me laugh at myself, spending all this time specifically to figure out the numbers, but oh well. I like numbers, they're neat. "The Gold," though, I should put at least a brief description of up for.
Skills =/= Abilities. I mentioned in the Rules Screen that I'm faintly irritated in myself by having to include Abilities because the things that go there don't fit into Skills neatly. I exempt them from the cookie system because that goes beyond, "flash of inspiration," and into, "I'm stopping bothering with the numbers because it doesn't matter anymore." Too much system-breaking. As for LSSJ:
Agreed on the movie. Urgh. But yeah, you've got the gist. What Nathaniel mentions is correct in this system, though: in the movie Broly never even flinches when struck until he gets hit with a stronger attack, and that's...not how pain works. BOD's author took note and decided that LSSJ cancels weaker attacks through some mechanism. As we are BOD-compliant here for simplicity's sake and the idea makes as much sense as anything else, I ran with it. It's a very specific mutation. I rolled for it during character creation, and the chances that it came up positive are a secret.
For the record, it clocks in nearly evenly between FPSSJ and a newly-ascended SSJ2, which is to say: overwhelmingly stronger than the one even if being functionally invincible in that fight weren't a factor, overwhelmingly outclassed by the other.
She's interested in Jaffur's style, and no wonder given "Inquisitive" and how weird it is. But his more lethal techniques like the Focus Ray you can bet she'll stutter on. And otherwise, she doesn't really have any explicitly-lethal techniques. Sure, they can be used to kill, but at her current level of fighting proficiency, taking somebody alive or dead is largely up to personal choice, unless they're good enough to push her. Largely, she hasn't had to confront the possible necessity of killing somebody; the only time it came up was when she was high off her first transformation and getting ready to decapitate Jaffur, vaporize his father, and then go kill Jaffur's sister. Which...wasn't really her.
As per BOD: Perfect Cell sat pretty at 1.540 Billion. Super Perfect Cell came in at 1.79 Billion. Neither of which was even nearly enough against a Super Saiyan 2.
Good question. You don't know, nobody's tried.
I'm leaving the wall of numbers out of the updates intentionally. The numbers are largely optional; if people want to know about them, the character sheet is right there, but for those reading through on an archive binge who don't want to spoil themselves, it's enough to know that Kakara got a new form. Which makes me laugh at myself, spending all this time specifically to figure out the numbers, but oh well. I like numbers, they're neat. "The Gold," though, I should put at least a brief description of up for.
Skills =/= Abilities. I mentioned in the Rules Screen that I'm faintly irritated in myself by having to include Abilities because the things that go there don't fit into Skills neatly. I exempt them from the cookie system because that goes beyond, "flash of inspiration," and into, "I'm stopping bothering with the numbers because it doesn't matter anymore." Too much system-breaking. As for LSSJ:
Agreed on the movie. Urgh. But yeah, you've got the gist. What Nathaniel mentions is correct in this system, though: in the movie Broly never even flinches when struck until he gets hit with a stronger attack, and that's...not how pain works. BOD's author took note and decided that LSSJ cancels weaker attacks through some mechanism. As we are BOD-compliant here for simplicity's sake and the idea makes as much sense as anything else, I ran with it. It's a very specific mutation. I rolled for it during character creation, and the chances that it came up positive are a secret.
For the record, it clocks in nearly evenly between FPSSJ and a newly-ascended SSJ2, which is to say: overwhelmingly stronger than the one even if being functionally invincible in that fight weren't a factor, overwhelmingly outclassed by the other.
She's interested in Jaffur's style, and no wonder given "Inquisitive" and how weird it is. But his more lethal techniques like the Focus Ray you can bet she'll stutter on. And otherwise, she doesn't really have any explicitly-lethal techniques. Sure, they can be used to kill, but at her current level of fighting proficiency, taking somebody alive or dead is largely up to personal choice, unless they're good enough to push her. Largely, she hasn't had to confront the possible necessity of killing somebody; the only time it came up was when she was high off her first transformation and getting ready to decapitate Jaffur, vaporize his father, and then go kill Jaffur's sister. Which...wasn't really her.
- Location
- USA
She might hesitate at first but she knows techniques like that are insurance against stronger opponents like the BBEG that nearly wiped them out. Stuff like that is a last resort for a reason.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well, yes. But "Pacifist" is still on the character sheet, and she'll still suffer stiff maluses to training those up. It's not that she won't be able to, but it'll be a big effort and time investment, likely requiring focus and dedication to do this thing that she doesn't want to do. Which is not inaccurate. It's how it works in real life -- when a person needs to do something that they hate, they need to force themself through it, and more often than not will fail before they succeed, or succeed imperfectly. I'm not saying you can't train lethal techniques. But you will have difficulty doing it.
- Location
- USA
Now I'm trying to remember if we wanted that trait or if it was an accident. And if so why would/did we?
- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy, Is having a super-skill at Legendary enough to break the barrier between Exceptional and Elite for sub-skills?
- Location
- Surabaya, Indonesia
It was a starting trait that got upgraded / developed I think. Some voters chose it and since no one (including myself) object, we develop/upgrade the Pacifist trait.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
You started with "Gentle" from the original character concept as chosen in character selection, representing a general discomfort with fighting and violence, and then developed it further in year one into a full-blown conviction. From here, Kakara has the strength of viewpoint to continue doubling down and go for an all-pacifist build (which I will say is a workable route for you to go with), or a more Gohan-esque, "It is not a sin to fight for the bla bla bla." The thread has been skewing heavily due Gohan since day one, though, so I have little doubt as to which way you all will eventually pull. You might surprise me, though.
In short? The thread picked it all, although I will grant that the original choice of Kakara, as opposed to Jaffur, won by a single vote. Enough people were interested in the concept of a Pacifist Saiyan to just barely edge out the ones who wanted the combat monster. I'm honestly just relieved and flattered I didn't instantly lose all of the Jaffur voters. I had that happen in my other quest. Demoralizing, let me tell you. But in any event, yeah, it's all player choice on this one. I even included the option to nix the "Gentle" trait entirely.
It is, although it's not a prerequisite. The super-skills serve as a way to keep your fighting ability relatively uniform; they make it easier to train below-average skills and harder to train above-average skills. That said, they're hardly absolutes, and some people have really weird spikes in capability.
And with that, folks, I'm out! Keep on querying the thread if you wish, but I need to sleep. Goodnight/morning/day/afternoon/evening!
- Location
- Australia
Good afternoon to you too!
- Location
- Too Deep in the Midnight Sea
[X] Just enter.
[X] Yes, it'll be useful if you ever fight somebody at your power level. It's inappropriate in this setting, though, so you've left it at home.
[X] Yes.
[X] Yes, it'll be useful if you ever fight somebody at your power level. It's inappropriate in this setting, though, so you've left it at home.
[X] Yes.
Eh? If the SSJ2 boost is double the SSJ boost, a newly ascended Super Saiyan should have power level of 375 million + 2x 750 million=1,775 billion, which is actually slightly lower than Super Perfect Cell's power level of 1,79 billion.
..Also, questions!
How effective are styles? How big an advantage would mastery of a style give in a fight where the fighters were completely equal except one had no style and the other was a master of a style, for example? How large a power and/or skill disadvantage can mastery of a style compensate for?
How high a power level does Kakara normally walk around with in base?
Edit:
Voting, gah.
[X] Suppress your ki, then enter.
[X] No, you don't foresee needing it.
[X] Yes.
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- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy
What action do we take to learn how to teach from our mother?
Is there a chance that using The Examined Life on Driven will make us lose the extra action we get from it?
Does Inquisitive make it easier for us to learn techniques and make up our own?
How accurate is Goku's analysis of Ultra Super Saiyan when it comes to your game?
What action do we take to learn how to teach from our mother?
Is there a chance that using The Examined Life on Driven will make us lose the extra action we get from it?
Does Inquisitive make it easier for us to learn techniques and make up our own?
How accurate is Goku's analysis of Ultra Super Saiyan when it comes to your game?
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
Incorrect as far as the manga and the japanese version of the show are concerned (at least the sub I saw). Raditz is very clearly immensely surprised by the sudden spikes in power level from Goku and Piccolo. Given Ginyu later had no idea it was possible, I am extremely dubious of your claim that Raditz knew how to do it.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
750x2=1,500
1,500+375=1,875
1,875>1,790
Not insurmountable by any means, but Gohan was even stronger for his first time (1.9 billion), and it didn't help Cell given that he immediately got into a beam struggle after his resurrection, which is a straight power clash.
A master against a completely unlearned fighter would swiftly come to dominate the terms of the fight and from there win in a substantial majority of cases (>70%). They can give you an good chance of victory so long as they're no further behind their opponent than 10% of their opponent's power level (which is also BOD compliant; getting the math for that right was interesting), and an even chance up to 20% disparity. Again, this is assuming all else is equal, including relative skill. Skills are harder to qualify, but a master could perhaps make up a two-step skill distance in their involved skills specifically. Styles are about learning a particular manner of combat over gaining a flat buff, so it gets fuzzier when dealing with skill differences given how much depends on the circumstance of the engagement.
Six to seven million, outside of the Masque.
Just style training for the Goku Style. In general, when you're training I'll find the best teacher you know to find and can get.
No improved version of a trait will remove bonuses available in earlier versions, and if you specifically choose to examine something, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt in assuming you want to keep it.
It's very specifically about gathering information in its current form, but actions with a scholarly bent have a higher chance of prompting a trait progression to more general scholarship focuses. So yes to learning new techniques, the small bonus applies. Nothing yet for creating them, though, and there's a reason I haven't had the option to create new techniques up just yet.
Cut the numbers, and that sounds about right conceptually.
So Berra would still kick our ass, got it.
Related to this, I just ran the numbers and discovered that both the normal and Golden Oozaru form's effective power level were equal to half their "speed power level" plus half their "strength/durability" power level. Is this just a coincidence or is that how it works in general?
Edit:
Oh, right, how large is the total population of Garenhuld? Wondering how big a fraction the Saiyans are, though if it's similar to modern Earth, it's probably much less than a percent.
Doubleedit:
Oh, and how strong is Mato?
Trippleedit:
How old are Berra, Kala, Dandeer and Lord Vegeta?
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