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Dragon Ball: After the End

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PoptartProdigy said:
I'm conflicted. Eight-ball says, "Answer unclear, ask again later."
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As much as I want it to be that you treat it as non canon, you're probably better served by treating it as canon. Because if you don't, then the Kienzan is a massive equalizer. Cell using them against Goku is manga canon, which means that it would be quite possible for a 15mil Saiyan to Solar Flare + Kienzan a FPSSJ and kill them that way. Which has implications for the political structure of the Exiles.

Edit:
I really do want it to be non-canon.
 
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That'll do for time. Vote closed at what in pretty sure it's an easy victory for "...roll with it" and "business as usual." That said, I'm away from a computer for a while. Could some helpful soul run me a tally?
 
Vote tally:
##### 3.19
[X] NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE NOPE. How about some NOPE to go with all of that NOPE? This is a bad idea! Make an excuse! Something! Anything! Get him out of here! This is a terrible idea!
[X] The world has ended. Act like it, and remain firmly distant while you figure out how this will impact things.
No. of votes: 1
Mortifer
[X] I smell a golden opportunity. What better way to analyze the Seal than this?
[X] Business as usual. This is awkward. People are blushing. Sophie is obviously crushing. Ready the cannons, because you've got yourself some ammunition to spend. Tease everybody present! Tease them right this instant!
No. of votes: 3
dunk1010, Andres110, Nathaniel Wolff
[X] ...roll with it. Okay, let's see how thisturns out. When did this happen, and why were you not informed?
[X] Business as usual. This is awkward. People are blushing. Sophie is obviously crushing. Ready the cannons, because you've got yourself some ammunition to spend. Tease everybody present! Tease them right this instant![/b]
No. of votes: 14
ChildishChimera, veekie, Aranfan, Bommelom, KaintukeeBob, KnightDisciple, Scotchtape27, adaer, Bakkasama, pianoman, Terrabrand, Thriceboiled, Yorick's Skull, The king Chad
[X] Okay, but seriously, he looks terrified, let the poor boy go.
[X] Business as usual. This is awkward. People are blushing. Sophie is obviously crushing. Ready the cannons, because you've got yourself some ammunition to spend. Tease everybody present! Tease them right this instant!
No. of votes: 1
Macros
 
Aranfan said:
@PoptartProdigy

Have you come to a decision about the Kienzan? That might be one reason why Berra can't just auto beat all the clans if they went against him.
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Well, in the first place there are just too many of them, and even as weak as they are they can overwhelm him. But on balance, I've ruled it canon. It's not actually blocking the disks -- it's a complicated technique that involves shatrering the Kienzan from the side with ki and it's significantly harder than Cell made it look -- but it works
 
PoptartProdigy said:
Well, in the first place there are just too many of them, and even as weak as they are they can overwhelm him. But on balance, I've ruled it canon. It's not actually blocking the disks -- it's a complicated technique that involves shattering the Kienzan from the side with ki and it's significantly harder than Cell made it look -- but it works
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What if we use it as a close-combat technique? Can it still be shattered, or will there be something like a control versus control roll-off?
 
PoptartProdigy said:
But on balance, I've ruled it canon. It's not actually blocking the disks -- it's a complicated technique that involves shatrering the Kienzan from the side with ki and it's significantly harder than Cell made it look -- but it works
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You know what? I'm okay with this. If it's a skill intensive thing instead of a passive no sell based on power level, then that's fine. Kienzan still lets you punch way about your weight class in that case.
 
This might have been answered before but if Bera is sitting at 1.25 billion (maxed out unless he either somehow learns Kaio-ken or goes SSJ2) what is the 'average' Saiyajin sitting at?
 
Bel said:
This might have been answered before but if Bera is sitting at 1.25 billion (maxed out unless he either somehow learns Kaio-ken or goes SSJ2) what is the 'average' Saiyajin sitting at?
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The average saiyan has a power level in the low single digit millions (if you want the full explanation, follow the following quote back to the full post).

PoptartProdigy said:
As a result of all of this, the average power level has tapered off to about 1-3 million. Every Saiyan is capable of destroying the planet with a flick of their wrist, but none of them are anything more than gnats before the full power of their Lord.
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Edit:
Also, question time again!
PoptartProdigy said:
Well, in the first place there are just too many of them, and even as weak as they are they can overwhelm him. But on balance, I've ruled it canon. It's not actually blocking the disks -- it's a complicated technique that involves shatrering the Kienzan from the side with ki and it's significantly harder than Cell made it look -- but it works
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When you say the clans can overwhelm Berra if they work together as there's too many of them, is it because they can actually beat him if they gang up on him in a straight fight, because they can beat him if they gang up on him in a straight fight and at least a decent percentage of them turn Super Saiyan or because it's logistically impossible for Berra to fight that many people at once?

Two, since Oozaru power is separate from base power, what about Oozaru speed? For example, if two Saiyans, one with a base power of 15 million and one with a base power of 3 million both turn into an Oozaru with a 30 million power level, would the one with 15 million base power be faster or would they both be the same speed (and if so, would the one with a 15 million power level lose speed or would the one with a 3 million power level gain speed)?

Three, do the Saiyans have any kind of measures/defenses (possibly sorcerous?) in place to prevent a depressed/insane/psychotic Saiyan from blowing up Garenhuld?
 
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I always thought Krillin's Destructo Disk didn't work against Cell but did work against Frieza was because Frieza's power level was in the millions while Cell's was in the billions, and at that point the difference in power level was so large that even the Destructo Disk couldn't bridge it.

I'd expect the Saiyans' Kienzans to work on Berra because it's a power level battle between million and billion rather than tens of thousands versus billion like with Krillin and Cell.
 
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Quest said:
What if we use it as a close-combat technique? Can it still be shattered, or will there be something like a control versus control roll-off?
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Whether the delivery mechanism for the disputing ki is a blast or a punch, it'll work.

Bommelom said:
Also, question time again!

When you say the clans can overwhelm Berra if they work together as there's too many of them, is it because they can actually beat him if they gang up on him in a straight fight, because they can beat him if they gang up on him in a straight fight and at least a decent percentage of them turn Super Saiyan or because it's logistically impossible for Berra to fight that many people at once?

Two, since Oozaru power is separate from base power, what about Oozaru speed? For example, if two Saiyans, one with a base power of 15 million and one with a base power of 3 million both turn into an Oozaru with a 30 million power level, would the one with 15 million base power be faster or would they both be the same speed (and if so, would the one with a 15 million power level lose speed or would the one with a 3 million power level gain speed)?

Three, do the Saiyans have any kind of measures/defenses (possibly sorcerous?) in place to prevent a depressed/insane/psychotic Saiyan from blowing up Garenhuld?
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A bit of one and two (so long as he's fighting base Saiyans, Berra has such an insurmountable speed advantage as to render logistical concerns moot), but it really just comes down to one. Any given Saiyan can really only give him an ouchie, but that's a hell of a lot of ouchie.

An Oozaru will have the effective speed of the Saiyan one-half its own strength. In the above example, the two Oozaru would be evenly matched.

Their quick-response solutions are the Lords, but in the longer term they do use Sorcerers to create jail cells.

Andres110 said:
I always thought Krillin's Destructo Disk didn't work against Cell but did work against Frieza was because Frieza's power level was in the millions while Cell's was in the billions, and at that point the difference in power level was so large that even the Destructo Disk couldn't bridge it.

I'd expect the Saiyans' Kienzans to work on Berra because it's a power level battle between million and billion rather than tens of thousands versus billion like with Krillin and Cell.
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I view the Kienzan not as something that somehow surmounts a greater power level, but as something that is just so sharp as to part it easily. You could cut anything with a sufficiently sharp piece of paper if you don't mind that piece being single-use. But it's still just paper...
 
Fun fact, if we discard the movies, then krillin seems to have invented edged ki. Everybody else who used edged saw krillin use it first. Nappa had no idea it would kill him, then vegeta used it later on, freezer only used it against goku after krillin cut off his tail, and Cell's shtick is taking the moves of those he was derived from.
 
Which is more powerful, the Super Kamehameha or the Final Flash?
Do we have a chance of levelling up Multiform twice in one turn with one action?
When split with Multiform, do the bodies have one mind, linked minds, or separate minds?
Can telepathy be used to gain academic knowledge and skills? If not, can we develop a version that lets us do this?
 
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Andres110 said:
Which is more powerful, the Super Kamehameha or the Final Flash?
Do we have a chance of levelling up Multiform twice in one turn with one action?
When split with Multiform, do the bodies have one mind, linked minds, or separate minds?
Can telepathy be used to gain academic knowledge and skills? If not, can we develop a version that lets us do this?
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Technically the Kamehameha, but the Final Flash is more indiscriminate. "Fuck EVERYTHING in this general direction," vs. "Fuck this ONE PARTICULAR thing, REALLY HARD."

No. In fact, as you get into the higher levels of skill, the chances of getting better, but not enough to level up, rise exponentially.

Separate, but they merge memories and acquired skills after the copies dissolve.

It would let you "download" information from somebody at the speed of thought, but offer no particular advantage at internalizing said knowledge. No technique you know of gets around the choke point of having to consciously parse information, and you don't believe it's possible to invent one that does.
 
Aranfan said:
Fun fact, if we discard the movies, then krillin seems to have invented edged ki. Everybody else who used edged saw krillin use it first. Nappa had no idea it would kill him, then vegeta used it later on, freezer only used it against goku after krillin cut off his tail, and Cell's shtick is taking the moves of those he was derived from.
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I really doubt that is the case. For one, Freezer's technique followed the target and if he could improvise that on top of the KIENZAN and combine them then he would have bragged about it.
 
Oh, I have questions.
So, @PoptartProdigy, I just want some clarification on the Kaio-Ken, first off, is it multiplicative in regards to power levels? And secondly, what makes it so damaging to the user? Is it the effort of pumping so much energy through the body, or just physical limitations?
On a related note, is Splitform tiring or damaging to the user in some way? If not, why aren't most people using it? How fragile is each spliform?
Also, is there any way to block a seer Seeing you apart from godly ki?
 
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