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That's blood pond, and those are a roller coaster and... what are the swingy things called?
Ferry's Wheel.

So what? It is boiling blood instead of wáter.

So what if there is an amusement park? Maybe the Onis have a good sindicate. Maybe it is unsafe and the souls that ride it suffer accidents at random. Maybe it is for those who get scared easily. Maybe the damned are supposed to watch the onis having fun while they suffer.

As I said, as good a versión of hell as any.

Edit: Also, they are on fire.
 
That's blood pond, and those are a roller coaster and... what are the swingy things called? And... the fire is fake...
Ultimately I am not the QM, but from what he's written in this Quest, in his other Quest, and in the RP he and I are in, I get the impression he treats the idea of an Afterlife, both the positive and negative aspects/regions of it, more seriously than you seem to be suggesting. If you try to operate only on the most "hilarious", absurdist interpretation possible, it seems something ripe for disappointment.

What I am trying to say is that when I read your posts, I feel and see that you seem to be rejecting even the possibility of validity of any ideas and interpretations that are not the most harmless, silly, absurdist approach possible, and it comes across as further just dismissing the possibility the rest of us are presenting valid ideas. Which feels and comes across as disingenuous, and even a bit disrespectful. Treating only the very narrow extreme end point of the sliding scale of interpretations as valid seems a dangerous approach when actively formulating plans and approaches for Kakara's short term actions, long term plans, and overall mentality, beliefs, and approach.
 
Okay, seriously @NegativeJ , are you intentionally avoiding engaging with the more serious and substantial items that myself, @Bakkasama , and others have raised about this?
I ask because your last several posts seem to focus on just 1-2 comparatively minor points, and ignore everything else.
Could you please at least clarify if you're taking this discussion seriously enough to actually engage with us, or are we simply wasting our time and metaphorical breath writing out serious and thoughtful replies?
 
Okay, seriously @NegativeJ , are you intentionally avoiding engaging with the more serious and substantial items that myself, @Bakkasama , and others have raised about this?
I ask because your last several posts seem to focus on just 1-2 comparatively minor points, and ignore everything else.
Could you please at least clarify if you're taking this discussion seriously enough to actually engage with us, or are we simply wasting our time and metaphorical breath writing out serious and thoughtful replies?
No I'm mostly typing those out on a word document and it's easier to ask about smaller things while writing larger responses.
 
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Let's have another tally.

[X] Full Disclosure
[X] Switch my vote to Broad Disclosure if Full Disclosure loses.​
I'm tired of keeping secrets. Crack the egg and spill it all. No more games. Unite the planet, mount a defense.

No nested votes, please. If that catches on I need to examine every single one of the 30+ votes I tend to get for nesting. Too much of a headache. I'll be merging this with the "Full Disclosure" votes for now, but in the future I'll just strike any nested votes from the tally.

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 427 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.5

[x] Broad disclosure. Give her a filtered version of the events as you know them. You had a Vision a while ago, saying aliens were coming and that they were hostile. Tell her everything through the lens of human ki users being the active parties.
No. of Votes: 13

[X] Full disclosure. Surely you can convince Dad to cast away the Masquerade your people have maintained for centuries for not terribly much reason at all, right? Well, once you do, go walk back upstairs without a Masque on, and start explaining.
No. of Votes: 4

Total No. of Voters: 17

The bandwagon has no brakes...

Not that I expect an upset -- and judging by the voter turnout, neither does anybody else ;) -- but I'll leave it open for a bit given that I'm working on something else right now anyway.

Metaphorically or physically? I need to ask this question, mostly because Sayian's...




And is Poptart starting to catch the Akira Toriyama disease...

Metaphorically. :p

Nah, just forgot to update her age. :oops:

IIRC, since it's our Foundation trait, the only way we're losing it is if Kakara suffers some form of mental breakdown.

If you want to lose it over the course of a single vote, then yes, it will involve a mental breakdown. Step back from the game perspective; what does it take for somebody to lose an entrenched and developed belief that they are invested in, in a single moment? It doesn't happen, not without some mental catastrophe. But those viewpoints can change over the long term. It's just the product of thought and internal debate.

So... Is it time for Berra to die yet? @PoptartProdigy

If not... How many works art and writing need to be submitted to get that ball rolling?

I...what? Why would you...?

No amount of omakes are going to cause Berra to die, although they will cause you to rack up bonuses by the handful.

If only the Mars century stuff wasn't written less than 7 years ago... But I'm sure that Poptart would be very entertained by massive amounts of omakes.

I surely would be. :D

Getting a bit hostile in here, folks. Let's bring it back it bit, hm?
 
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Ultimately I am not the QM, but from what he's written in this Quest, in his other Quest, and in the RP he and I are in, I get the impression he treats the idea of an Afterlife, both the positive and negative aspects/regions of it, more seriously than you seem to be suggesting. If you try to operate only on the most "hilarious", absurdist interpretation possible, it seems something ripe for disappointment.

What I am trying to say is that when I read your posts, I feel and see that you seem to be rejecting even the possibility of validity of any ideas and interpretations that are not the most harmless, silly, absurdist approach possible, and it comes across as further just dismissing the possibility the rest of us are presenting valid ideas. Which feels and comes across as disingenuous, and even a bit disrespectful. Treating only the very narrow extreme end point of the sliding scale of interpretations as valid seems a dangerous approach when actively formulating plans and approaches for Kakara's short term actions, long term plans, and overall mentality, beliefs, and approach.

I'm not the best person to talk to about the afterlife and I will never be one... And mostly I'm treating the Dragon
ball Afterlife like it deserves to be treated... Especially if you try to cobble in a lot of Akira Toriyama works and "Dragonball GT" into one system of pure absurdity... I will not and can not take it seriously... Especially because Akira Toriyama set it out to be a absurd version of many belief's cobbled together into one system... When the dragon balls came more into play (In DBZ) and it basically turned into a time out zone by the end of Z, it lost all seriousness that good be salvaged... (I think super treats the place even worse than Z...)

The QM/GM of course removed the Dragon balls(well... at least for now...) and allowed some time to pass... But it does not really change the fact that he has to work with one of the most comedisized versions of the afterlife in anime(There might be worse ones, I will not try to recall any, my brain would try to burn me if I tried.)...

It's not that you guys aren't presenting valid ideas... It's just that you are trying to apply these ideas to one of the most joked about versions of the afterlife, that's what makes me lose all of my seriousness trying to discuss these topics and ideas... You can try to envision it in a more serious manner, but you can't escape the fact that the Akira Toriyama's vision of the afterlife seems to be quite literary a parody.

You can try making it more serious but it won't make it any less of a joke...

Also I'm going to sleep! If your asking why, 5 AM is not a good time to wake up.

Nah, just forgot to update her age. :oops:
That's how it starts, soon you will be forgetting whole side characters.
 
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I'm not the best person to talk to about the afterlife and I will never be one... And mostly I'm treating the Dragon
ball Afterlife like it deserves to be treated... Especially if you try to cobble in a lot of Akira Toriyama works and "Dragonball GT" into one system of pure absurdity... I will not and can not take it seriously... Especially because Akira Toriyama set it out to be a absurd version of many belief's cobbled together into one system... When the dragon balls came more into play (In DBZ) and it basically turned into a time out zone by the end of Z, it lost all seriousness that good be salvaged... (I think super treats the place even worse than Z...)

The QM/GM of course removed the Dragon balls(well... at least for now...) and allowed some time to pass... But it does not really change the fact that he has to work with one of the most comedisized versions of the afterlife in anime(There might be worse ones, I will not try to recall any, my brain would try to burn me if I tried.)...

It's not that you guys aren't presenting valid ideas... It's just that you are trying to apply these ideas to one of the most joked about versions of the afterlife, that's what makes me lose all of my seriousness trying to discuss these topics and ideas... You can try to envision it in a more serious manner, but you can't escape the fact that the Akira Toriyama's vision of the afterlife seems to be quite literary a parody.

You can try making it more serious but it won't make it any less of a joke...

Also I'm going to sleep! If your asking why, 5 AM is not a good time to wake up.


That's how it starts, soon you will be forgetting whole side characters.
My point this whole time is that we're not working, strictly speaking, within Akira Toriyama's universe, we're working in a universe inspired by it but filtered through the lens of PoptartProdigy's own imagination and ideas. Poptart has more than once said that they are somewhat "cherry picking" some things, or that they're retconning or revising ideas in places where they feel Toriyama's particular "vision" doesn't play out so well.
Thus, while I do understand that much of Dragonball-verse's interpretation of any and all aspects of an Afterlife are rather absurdist and comedic, I'm trying to present the idea and caution that PoptartProdigy's interpretation may well be rather different.

I can't make you take anything serious, for sure, but I'm trying to at least get to the place you can acknowledge that we're not viewing things through the same lens you are, and that your responses come across as at least generally respecting the validity of our viewpoints and presented ideas, at the very least within the context of discussions of this Quest.

I'm not trying to convert you or anything, I'm just trying to have a serious but non-hostile discussion in a thread whose story-telling I have, overall, very much enjoyed thus far.

(Sleep well.)
 
That's how it starts, soon you will be forgetting whole side characters.

To be fair, we haven't talked about basically any of the Misfits buy Maya in over 100 pages, so the thread seems to have forgotten about them.

That said, I expect that'll change when the focus of the updates shifts away from Maya and her training (and interactions with the scouts).
 
[X] Full Disclosure

I'm not really expecting this to win, but I am getting tired of having to dance around the truth so much. Maya is going to find out at some point, because hiding it forever is a ridiculous plan. Initially, there was at least some merit to waiting until we were sure she could handle it, but at this point, and, honestly, before now as well, hiding things from her is only going to cause more grief. Hell, half the reason we screwed up so badly in the last vote was because we were still trying to hide stuff from Maya while sticking to Kakara's dad's plan which we didn't fully understand anyway. Poor communication kills, and we're playing a communication expert, so let's stop screwing around and communicate.
 
[x] Broad disclosure. Give her a filtered version of the events as you know them. You had a Vision a while ago, saying aliens were coming and that they were hostile. Tell her everything through the lens of human ki users being the active parties.
To be fair, we haven't talked about basically any of the Misfits buy Maya in over 100 pages, so the thread seems to have forgotten about them.

That said, I expect that'll change when the focus of the updates shifts away from Maya and her training (and interactions with the scouts).

They appeared a couple of updates ago, in our visión quest. Jaron is a latent sorcerer, Sophie has abandonment issues, the girls seem to believe Maya has a crush on us, Jaron is such a boy, Gemma apparently has a reputation of being able to figure anything given enough time and the girls suspect that something is up with us and Maya.
 
Since we've had a couple of other threads of conversation come and go in the interim, it does seem relevant for me to at least put forth for consideration my reasoning on why I voted for Broad instead of Full Disclosure, as first written here:
[] Broad disclosure. Give her a filtered version of the events as you know them. You had a Vision a while ago, saying aliens were coming and that they were hostile. Tell her everything through the lens of human ki users being the active parties.

The framework of this one is, in fact, the truth. We did have a vision of the invasion and the scouts. There is a hidden society of ki users on this planet. They do actively work to hide themselves from both the greater galaxy, and the rest of the planet. And in many ways, they are human; their blood is not purely Saiyan, and it's impossible that some aspects of human society, both from Earth and from Garenhuld, haven't filtered in to some degree.
But for now, we maintain the Masquerade.

Unless and until the Exile society on Garenhuld can achieve the following results, I personally will continue to vote in favor of maintain the Masquerade:
1.) Maintain the freedom of government, will, etc. of the people of Garenhuld; my interpretation of population figures, and @PoptartProdigycan correct me if I'm wrong, is that Saiyans are still a non-majority of the planet's people, but a very large margin. If breaking the Masquerade would result in the Saiyans essentially ruling over the Humans, solely due to power levels and ki use, that's a net negative I personally am unwilling to accept. The Garenhulders may be "boring" to us Questers, but as far as I'm concerned they have an inherent right to live their peaceful, "boring" lives without us becoming violent overlords.
2.) Maintain the secrecy of the Saiyan people from the broader galaxy; all indications seem to be that if the galaxy knew Saiyans existed in number, they would freak out and either try to "recruit" us as "protectors" (read: fight their battles for them), or try to kill us all as obstacles to their own plans for glory and conquest. This point is in particular focused on the basic fact and knowledge of Saiyans existing at all. I don't want this revelation happening until we're in a position to handle the potential fallout, no matter the scope.
3.) Maintain our "silent running" vis-a-vis Ki use in relation to the broader galaxy; by this I mean we continue to do everything we can to not broadcast our power levels so strongly it's assured that we'll be felt from several systems to several parsecs, to even a whole galaxy away. This is for the sake of all residents of the planet, and relates to the general danger of the broader galaxy being able to go "WTF IS THAT".
4.) Maintain our (hopeful) security and secrecy against The Enemy; I feel like this is pretty self-explanatory.
5.) Find a way to disguise power levels higher than FPSSJ+Golden Oozaru; because if we can start hiding SSJ2, SSJ3, etc., then we're playing a whole different ball game. This largely connects back to 3 and 4, but is its own thing too.
("X" removed from the above to ensure not jacking with the vote tally program.)
 
Since we've had a couple of other threads of conversation come and go in the interim, it does seem relevant for me to at least put forth for consideration my reasoning on why I voted for Broad instead of Full Disclosure, as first written here:
("X" removed from the above to ensure not jacking with the vote tally program.)

Those are good reasons to maintain the Masquerade, but I don't think those are good reasons not to bring Maya into the fold. We want to hide Saiyans from everyone else, but I don't see the point in hiding Saiyans from Maya specifically. She'll find out eventually anyway, and not telling her now just makes everything more difficult that we might possibly have to hide.
 
Those are good reasons to maintain the Masquerade, but I don't think those are good reasons not to bring Maya into the fold. We want to hide Saiyans from everyone else, but I don't see the point in hiding Saiyans from Maya specifically. She'll find out eventually anyway, and not telling her now just makes everything more difficult that we might possibly have to hide.
I'm just not comfortable going 0 to 60 just yet on this. I prefer a reveal in stages. *shrugs*
 
I really, really doubt we can convince Dad to completely throw aside the Masquerade, especially right now.

We are the Scion who lost the battle, and failed in the task he gave us. Sure, he accepts that it happened, but it must disappoint him to some degree. We are not in a good position to convince him that we should violate our oldest and most solid laws, even in a single case.

As I said before, I'd be completely in favor of full disclosure, if I thought we had even a 50/50 shot at pulling it off. Instead, while I'm sure a success is technically possible, we would likely have to pass a very high DC check, with significant circumstance penalties to it.

And if we fail, as is very likely, it makes it far less likely for Dad to give us the 'broad disclosure' result. Instead, we'd likely be stuck in a position where we will be needing to pass more (and more difficult, since they'd lack the 'close to the truth' circumstance bonus) Deceit checks.

I mean, if this is the method you guys want to pursue to grind Deceit, fine. But be honest about it.

I'd rather we just play a lot of poker with the Misfits, while playing, "I Never" (with non-alcoholic beverages, of course).
 
Sincé Pacifist and convictions are nullified by cognitive dissonance for now, these are probably the traits and skills that benefit Full disclosure:
Compelling Presence: When you speak, people listen. Something about your words draws and fascinates those around you. You have an almost indefinable charisma about you that draws people's attention whenever you have something to say. Minor bonus to all Communication checks and moderate boosts to take charge of a situation.

Decisive: While level-headed, you recognize that when a crisis beckons the time for waiting has passed and the time for action has come. In a time-critical situation, gain a small bonus to all actions that resolve or defuse the situation swiftly

Oddball: What everybody can agree on is that your mind works in strange ways. You tend to take people off-balance. Gain a slight bonus to any check involving you acting in unconventional ways, and a moderate bonus to take others off-guard in doing so.

Socializer: You don't have many friends, but you like people, and it's hurt you deeply to be able to talk to so few of them. But when you get the chance, you tend to seek out others. Gain a small bonus to all Communication checks.

Communication [Talented]: You are fairly adept in the art of speaking with others, and through your experiences have crossed the line into true skill. You're no master orator as of yet, but you can hold a crowd.


While Broad disclosure uses the same except for Oddball. If we had the Conviction bonus we might have been able to apply it to full disclosure too.
 
As I said before, I'd be completely in favor of full disclosure, if I thought we had even a 50/50 shot at pulling it off. Instead, while I'm sure a success is technically possible, we would likely have to pass a very high DC check, with significant circumstance penalties to it.

And if we fail, as is very likely, it makes it far less likely for Dad to give us the 'broad disclosure' result. Instead, we'd likely be stuck in a position where we will be needing to pass more (and more difficult, since they'd lack the 'close to the truth' circumstance bonus) Deceit checks.

I think, if anything, it makes it easier to get the broad disclosure result if we start from full disclosure. He starts wanting to explain as little as possible, we start wanting to explain everything, and we argue into the middle. I'd prefer to just outright succeed at full disclosure, but starting somewhere you don't expect to win is a fairly basic haggling and debate strategy.

All we need are some good starting points, which aren't that hard to think up. Maya is going to find out eventually. She's getting stronger at a ridiculous rate, and she's improving dramatically at sensing. Trying to keep her in the dark forever about a globe-spanning conspiracy when she can see more and more of the moving parts is hopeless and would depend on her being so gullible as to be absurd or just completely stupid.

So it comes down to when we reveal the information. We're in the middle of an invasion. We are in a terrible position to hide this, and she's in a perfect position to accidentally uncover it. Further, if we don't tell her everything, we won't be able to tell her how or why we want her to respond to crises as they emerge, so she's liable to keep doing things that make it harder for the Saiyans to respond to the threat. Part of why we just screwed up was because we didn't have a firm understanding of what our priorities in the encounter were, so were trying to balance too many different goals when we could have just engaged in diplomacy from the get-go or later abandoned discretion altogether to handle the threat. When Kakara or Maya have to make split-second decisions, the less crap they have to manage and the more they understand the situation as a whole, the better they'll be able to make good decisions.

Besides all that, Maya is Kakara's friend, and potentially the first one she could tell everything to. That's not something that would sway her father, sure, but it's a good reason for her to want to, and it's a good reason for us to give that opportunity to her.
 
Sincé Pacifist and convictions are nullified by cognitive dissonance for now, these are probably the traits and skills that benefit Full disclosure:

I don't see Oddball working to our advantage here, unless we specifically try to get it to do so (for example, by answering Dad in a story format, long and rambling, going on several tangents, before coming back to the point of, "So we should tell her everything, otherwise the crocodiles will never have proper silverware!") as we aren't really acting unconventionally - we are proposing a rather unusual solution, but not one that can't be logically derived. And we've had discussions with Dad about the Masquerade enough that he won't be surprised we want to break it for Maya. Given his exposure to us, I'd say Dad has at least partial immunity to Oddball.

I also don't see that Decisive will come into play. It would have come into play during the fight with the scout and the evasion afterwards, but this isn't a split-second situation. We can spend a decent chunk of time talking - indeed, we already have. I don't think this is a time-critical situation.

To get Compelling Presence's moderate bonus (as opposed to the minor bonus) we'd have to take charge of the conversation (either with Dad or Maya or both). We can do that with either full or broad.

In short, I disagree with your assertation that Oddball would benefit Full Disclosure, but I agree that the rest either do or can apply to either.
 
I don't see Oddball working to our advantage here, unless we specifically try to get it to do so (for example, by answering Dad in a story format, long and rambling, going on several tangents, before coming back to the point of, "So we should tell her everything, otherwise the crocodiles will never have proper silverware!") as we aren't really acting unconventionally - we are proposing a rather unusual solution, but not one that can't be logically derived. And we've had discussions with Dad about the Masquerade enough that he won't be surprised we want to break it for Maya. Given his exposure to us, I'd say Dad has at least partial immunity to Oddball.

I also don't see that Decisive will come into play. It would have come into play during the fight with the scout and the evasion afterwards, but this isn't a split-second situation. We can spend a decent chunk of time talking - indeed, we already have. I don't think this is a time-critical situation.

To get Compelling Presence's moderate bonus (as opposed to the minor bonus) we'd have to take charge of the conversation (either with Dad or Maya or both). We can do that with either full or broad.

In short, I disagree with your assertation that Oddball would benefit Full Disclosure, but I agree that the rest either do or can apply to either.
Oddball acts up when acting in an unconventional way, not in a weird way. Considering how integral the masquerade is for saiyan life, arguing to discard it fits the definition.
 
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