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Dragon Ball: After the End

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Sucal said:
Tien Gives us multiple hands though!

We can do all the ki blocking with 50 hands!
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That's why I mentioned the associated techniques of Tien Style.

Like, I'm looking at this part of Piccolo Style's description:
The form of Piccolo, this emphasizes precise and clever strikes with great concentration of power, and a balance of offense and defense.
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And that seems to me the sort of thing that fits how I understand and imagine Ki Blocking to operate (which is, admittedly, highly similar to Gentle Fist Style from Naruto, in my mind, @PoptartProdigy can correct me there).

Meanwhile, Tien Style has no concrete description of the basic strikes and moves therein, but I imagine it being a bit more "solid" compared to Piccolo Style's "fluid and fast".
 
KnightDisciple said:
Meanwhile, Tien Style has no concrete description of the basic strikes and moves therein, but I imagine it being a bit more "solid" compared to Piccolo Style's "fluid and fast".
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Very true.

But we do know enough about Tien Style to know it was likely based at least partially based on the New Crane school, which was one of canons more 'spiritual' martial arts styles when compared to the others. While I suspect that a lot was lost over the years (or they never considered it important enough to preserve), there could be enough of that 'spiritual' element remaining to be useful, especially since it seemingly contains a bit more information about Ki Use.

Besides, we can always pick up some Piccolo style along the way.
 
Sucal said:
*waves a flag that has a picture of Kakara hugging Cell and Frieza Pushies*
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You know, I bet that Majin Buu could turn people into toys beside candies.

KnightDisciple said:
Hm. Well, if nothing else, we use Tien Style as the stylistic base, while incorporating the individual techniques we want to learn to give us a groundwork to then create Pacifist Style?

(Though honestly, the talk of how ki-blocking works makes me think that, in and of itself, Piccolo/Demon Style would fit a tad better, but it's pretty clear many people want Tien style as our base due to other techniques and benefits.)
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Well, that and the involved techniques of the Demon style are a bit on the lethal side:
PoptartProdigy said:
Makankosappo, Explosive Wave, Evil Explosion, Masenko, Light Grenade, Hellzone Grenade.
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I mean, from what I remember of the manga, Makankosappo is probably the most famous one and it is a piercing attack. Hellzone Grenade was about throwing a bunch of ki blasts that stopped in the air around the enemy and then exploded so that he was in the middle of an explosión. Masenko was two ki blasts thrown one after another with the second using a slight delay so that it hit the enemy right after he dodged to first. The other three sound like they would have some colateral damage too.

I mean, Demon style sounds better tan Tien's but the point of the styles is to tie together the techniques they use into a whole. So even if Tien style doesn't sound as effective as Demon, Tien would let us use its techniques more efficiently in a fight than Demon style without its signature moves or using those of Tien style. If not because we probably want to include solar flare and Four witches then Demon would probably be a better base for melee but since Tien already includes the forms that lets you flow into those techniques...
 
Bakkasama said:
A variant of solar flare that remains in the place you cast it, so you can actually attack or hide while the technique is still active and blinding your opponent.

When I first saw it I was a bit peeved since it was so simple in concept yet so much better than anything I could come up with.
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Don't forget that it can't be blocked by closing your eyes or looking away, and it interferes with Ki Sense as well. Krillin really improved upon it.
 
Gore17 said:
Don't forget that it can't be blocked by closing your eyes or looking away, and it interferes with Ki Sense as well. Krillin really improved upon it.
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If thats what Krillin has done, I really really can't wait to see Master Roshi back in action again. Jackie Chun will ride once more, and teach the whipper snappers a thing or ten.
 
Sucal said:
That requires you to be rather evil to use though.

Much safer to recreate the Spirit Bomb or Dragon Fist
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"It is a force of unimaginable evil, that had destroyed more lives than any war or pestilence combined. Long ago there was a mighty-but-compassionate warrior. His power was beyond measure, yet many foolish upstarts tried to destroy him, in hopes of making a name for themselves. They were all unsuccessful, until one day, the Devilman appeared. Knowing he could not compete against the warrior's strength, the Devilman attacked using his mind. He discovered he could exploit his opponent's negative thoughts, no matter how faint, and convert them into an energy beam of immense power, the Devilmite Beam (Akkumaito Kousen).

It amplified any dark thought (anger, malice, aggression) and caused it to expand until his opponent's heart, literally exploded! It was the death of a great hero, and the birth of an even greater evil.''"
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Well... not really...
 
KnightDisciple said:
That's why I mentioned the associated techniques of Tien Style.
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A big part of the initial reasoning for Tien style was the 'cast from HP' aspects of it, too, since we could go Giant Ape and get so much extra HP/lifeforce to power ki-ko-ho for days.

Then, of course, there's the fact that the Multiform/SSJ boosts would allow us to more or less ignore the penalties of ki-ko-ho.

So Tien Style was desirable for a number of reasons, and only gets better once we incorporate Perfect Multiform (once we recreate it).
 
NegativeJ said:
Well... not really...
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..

Hint.

They are called the Devilmen for a reason.

Read the rest of your own quote

It amplified any dark thought (anger, malice, aggression) and caused it to expand until his opponent's heart, literally exploded! It was the death of a great hero, and the birth of an even greater evil.''"
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This is not a move a Saint can learn
 
Bakkasama said:
You know, I bet that Majin Buu could turn people into toys beside candies.


Well, that and the involved techniques of the Demon style are a bit on the lethal side:

I mean, from what I remember of the manga, Makankosappo is probably the most famous one and it is a piercing attack. Hellzone Grenade was about throwing a bunch of ki blasts that stopped in the air around the enemy and then exploded so that he was in the middle of an explosión. Masenko was two ki blasts thrown one after another with the second using a slight delay so that it hit the enemy right after he dodged to first. The other three sound like they would have some colateral damage too.

I mean, Demon style sounds better tan Tien's but the point of the styles is to tie together the techniques they use into a whole. So even if Tien style doesn't sound as effective as Demon, Tien would let us use its techniques more efficiently in a fight than Demon style without its signature moves or using those of Tien style. If not because we probably want to include solar flare and Four witches then Demon would probably be a better base for melee but since Tien already includes the forms that lets you flow into those techniques...
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Hm, fair points. Again, I do see and agree with the points you and @Sucal have raised about using Tien Style as our base.

For what it's worth, it looks like Explosive Wave is basically a burst of Ki out from your body, while "Evil Explosion" is a video-game-only variant of the Explosive Demon Wave, which is itself essentially Piccolo's version of the Kamehameha, being a large, powerful beam fired from one hand with another hand's support.

Light Grenade is basically "take a big blast like the Kamehameha and shove it down into a ball the size of your head, then throw it at someone".

So, I'm on-board with learning Tien Style first, and then I'd like to try and incorporate the melee forms from Piccolo Style as part of our effort to create a ki-blocking-based Pacifist Style.
 
NegativeJ said:
Or you know... The Devilmite beam...
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I doubt Kakara would be interested on it though depending on what you consider canon we might run into it.

I mean, the technique came from Ackman (Spike the devilman in the English translation) and Toriyama has a manga of the same name in which an alien called such who looks a lot like him comes to earth in order to surveys to to see if it is worth genociding in order to sell. It turns out that it is because of the amount of pure wáter the planet has, which is a theme that appears a lot on his Works.

In galactic patrolman Ginta it is mentioned that the wáter on earth is of high purity. He also has at least two mangas in which the action happens in a desert and the protagonist quest is to find a way to bring wáter to it. In sandland, for example, one of the protagonists is the son of Dabura, King of devils (which looks like a giant versión of the one from Dragon Ball). That same protagonists shares name and design with the prince of hell in Dr. Slump and the desert in which the manga takes place has about the same design in its rock formations as the one in which they first meet Yamcha..

Really, he shares so many characters among his Works that it wouldn't be that hard to make an unified universo out of them. It also helps that any inconsistency can pretty much be explained with "It is Arale's fault somehow" and it being a reasonable answer to it.

I have tried to do that in case you haven't noticed. I even managed to include several of the Dragon Ball Z movies into the timeline until Fusion reborn ruined it by creating Gogeta even though Goku was about a head taller tan Vegeta. That is where I draw the line since I also had to research the comparative heights of the different characters for fusions for that one fic idea I never finished... Seriously, fuck that movie.
 
Bakkasama said:
Actually, it is probably best to work on that at the same time as the Telekinesis, which we would need to do before making the pacifist style. Tien seems useful in that not only has no stylistic weaknesses on hand to hand (which would be useful for ki blocking) but it help on techniques that are worth adding like Four Witches, Multiform and Taioken. The problema is that it doesn't particularly help with the fact that Kakara doesn't like hurting others which is why we should try to get the techniques that allow us to disable without hurting ASAP.



A variant of solar flare that remains in the place you cast it, so you can actually attack or hide while the technique is still active and blinding your opponent.

When I first saw it I was a bit peeved since it was so simple in concept yet so much better than anything I could come up with.
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Tien + telekinesis + flight emphasis sounds like a Chiaotzu style. There might even be some relevant records and studies in the same sense that Roshi style has been remembered.
 
Lailoken said:
Tien + telekinesis + flight emphasis sounds like a Chiaotzu style. There might even be some relevant records and studies in the same sense that Roshi style has been remembered.
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Well, Chiaotzu's fighting style on the 22nd tournament revolved around his opponent not knowing how to fly so that he could stay out of reach and rain Dodonpa's upon them. Then for melee used telekinesis. So yeah, it does sound a bit like that.
 
Bakkasama said:
Well, Chiaotzu's fighting style on the 22nd tournament revolved around his opponent not knowing how to fly so that he could stay out of reach and rain Dodonpa's upon them. Then for melee used telekinesis. So yeah, it does sound a bit like that.
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His only known strategy against an opponent who can fly is to grab ahold and self-destruct.

Chiaotzu is worst pokemon.
 
KaintukeeBob said:
His only known strategy against an opponent who can fly is to grab ahold and self-destruct.

Chiaotzu is worst pokemon.
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He never joined a fight after that. Actually, I don't think he was ever seen again in the manga after he left with Tien after being revived. Kind of like Lunch.

Tien has a history of people disappearing after they leave with him, it seems. As expected of someone who trained to be an assassin.
 
Bakkasama said:
Well, Chiaotzu's fighting style on the 22nd tournament revolved around his opponent not knowing how to fly so that he could stay out of reach and rain Dodonpa's upon them. Then for melee used telekinesis. So yeah, it does sound a bit like that.
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Generalize it into having a superiority in flight and maneuverability, which between her flight and IT talents Kakara does. With her ki manipulation skills she probably has a natural advantage in telekinesis as well. We've already seen that with the astoundingly fast pace at which she learned telepathy.

We do need to put some work into hiding/disguising/jamming ki and ki sensing. Fortunately, that's likely to be unusually easy for a ki-sensing and ki-manipulation prodigy who's developing the ability to directly see and manipulate ki as part of ki-blocking.

We also need to open up the spirit bomb tech tree. That pacifism trait had better start paying dividends. It's pretty much the polar opposite of kaio-ken, so that might be a place to start.



Ridiculously Average Guy said:
IIRC, since it's our Foundation trait, the only way we're losing it is if Kakara suffers some form of mental breakdown.
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SSJ2 confirmed?
 
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