KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
My inclination would be to try and study the ki-blocking tech and materials, first and foremost. After that, study the other ship techs, like FTL and whatnot.
Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Somewhere I shouldn't be
Makes sense to me. I'm sure we could use some layers of the ki blocking materials to aid the wards in the training hall, and maybe people's homes or other gathering places. If it works like normal shielding materials (as opposed to the magic wards, which either allow nothing our or fail entirely, letting everything out) it would be a nice way to release a few hundred thousand (or more?) units in everyday life without making the planet glow like a beacon.
I wonder...if we put the ki-blocking material inside the wards, do you think we could reach SSJ2 safely? It'd be pretty neat if we could allow the current Lord/Lady to go SSJ2 and/or FPSSJ Golden Ape.
...SSJ2 Golden Ape? Is there such a thing as FPSSJ2?
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
That's the direction I was taking with that idea, yes, was that we could finally go SSJ2. And I would posit that if there's FPSSJ1, then FPSSJ2 is a reasonable extrapolation.
The Fourth Monado
S U B A R A S H I I
- Location
- Away
And not just because you know FPSSJ2 is a thing?
KnightDisciple
Love God. Do Right. Fear No Man.
- Location
- Midwest, USA
Spoilers?And not just because you know FPSSJ2 is a thing?
The reason we don't know it is that Kakara failed a check to figure it out when she was wondering why he was keeping his power down while training Maya a while back. The GM planned this out for a while and even had opportunities for Kakara to find out beforehand- she just failed them.
This does nothing to provide a Watsonian explanation for why Berra didn't feel like explaining this policy up front instead of making Kakara guess at it when finding out mid-combat has such serious and predictable consequences for the Saiyan most consistently interacting with Maya. Berra the character appears to have seriously screwed up here and at the very least needs to explain why it isn't what it looks like before he tries to lecture anybody for attempting to follow his isolated, mushroom-management instructions.
This is especially important to learn now, because we're currently voting on how much to tell Maya, and Berra apparently has reasons to keep some information from her we still don't know of.
Last edited:
Just ignore him, every path suggested in the thread would benefit from that. If his plans were truly important and made sense he would tell us since we are involved in them all, he didn't them us ergo they aren't.
I am guessing even with several of our bonuses applying full disclosure would require a natural 100 or something like that so going for the next best.
[X] Broad disclosure. Give her a filtered version of the events as you know them. You had a Vision a while ago, saying aliens were coming and that they were hostile. Tell her everything through the lens of human ki users being the active parties.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
If he was going to use Kakara as a roving fire brigade to sort out attacks on his search parties, then Kakara needed to know the same basic information about the rules of engagement that the search parties did.
You can treat your daughter like a child, or you can treat your daughter like a soldier in your army. Because of how saiyan powers work, it isn't necessarily wrong for Berra to do the latter to Kakara... But it IS wrong for him to treat her like a child too irresponsible and young to have "need to know" about basic information... And then turn around and treat her like a soldier who can be thrown into a situation where access to that information becomes a matter of life and death.
You can keep your child in your family in the dark, to protect their innocence or keep them from screwing up the plan. But you must brief the soldiers in your army, unless they are well and truly expendable. Kakara isn't expendable.
If Berra's a good parent, HE will have a Cognitive Dissonance moment too about how he's treating his heir.
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Ok. Talk about pacifism and modifying it: I disagree with changing it just yet. We just have to start already with the pacifist style and use politics:
a) We should try to convince Sensei toteach us ki blocking. Fighting should still be our last resort but with this we have a way to subdue them without hurting them which is what Kakara is opposed to.
b) Get minions that can act independently.
c) Work on Jaffur social link.
c.1) But keep up on the power level race. We don't want to fight him but he respects/wants peers and the Gokun Lord needs to have the option of not being crushed. Again, this is a matter of politics: it is more important for people to believe we have the option than us actually having it.
d) Try to create non hurting techniques like a mental blast ti knockpeople out or a containment ki shield.
e) Aim to create useful techniques that don't hurt others. We can't avoid the reputation hit if it comes up we don't like fighting but we can create apreciation for things unrelated to that. Work on our ki healing, create a way to layer shields, work on ways for mass scale IT, work ki into art like lightshows and the like.
f) Git gud at the whole diplomacy and intrigue. Join an acting or debate club maybe?
g) Promote more Gohan apreciation on the faith since he is closest to us in personality. @PoptartProdigy I always forget to ask but I am surprised there wasn't a learning about the Faith option with Grandma or Fennela.
h) Try to consolidate a power base. The faith is a good start and releasing Jaffur would help. Seers might be an option. Sorcerers...we are biased against them and are in no position to take advantage.
The issue here is that the best way would be to befriend children from important clans but us not liking fighting makes it hard.
h) Learn if any other misfit has a trait worth exploiting.
i) Befriend Jaron and Betarel: They are our in to Jaffur.
j) Get more info on the galaxy. See what can be exploited via diplomacy to make us more useful to our race.
k) Actually, fuck it. Get political power in Garenhuld too.
l) Meet saiyans scientists. Diplo, intrigue, stewardship and learning instead of martial. Aim for cultural victory civilization style.
m) Learn the damn Vegetan protocols.
n) Tie clans closer together via marriage (either Jaron with misfits, us with Jaffur, us with Betarel. The important thing is making the Lords being friends that actually meet for social instead of just politics)
ñ) Abuse our traits. Always list which traits come into effect when making a plan.
And some things that don't come to mind right now. Basically, since martial is not our strong suit, gather power any other way. If we get good enough at everything else to the point people rely on us for that... they will hand us power without even realizing it. Though for now we should focus on appearances. Act as if everything is under control, rearrange the plan Since Berra already showed 1M then maybe use that to discourage the scouts. Have him being more open with his power level? Stablish him as the planet's champion in the eyes of the scouts.
a) We should try to convince Sensei toteach us ki blocking. Fighting should still be our last resort but with this we have a way to subdue them without hurting them which is what Kakara is opposed to.
b) Get minions that can act independently.
c) Work on Jaffur social link.
c.1) But keep up on the power level race. We don't want to fight him but he respects/wants peers and the Gokun Lord needs to have the option of not being crushed. Again, this is a matter of politics: it is more important for people to believe we have the option than us actually having it.
d) Try to create non hurting techniques like a mental blast ti knockpeople out or a containment ki shield.
e) Aim to create useful techniques that don't hurt others. We can't avoid the reputation hit if it comes up we don't like fighting but we can create apreciation for things unrelated to that. Work on our ki healing, create a way to layer shields, work on ways for mass scale IT, work ki into art like lightshows and the like.
f) Git gud at the whole diplomacy and intrigue. Join an acting or debate club maybe?
g) Promote more Gohan apreciation on the faith since he is closest to us in personality. @PoptartProdigy I always forget to ask but I am surprised there wasn't a learning about the Faith option with Grandma or Fennela.
h) Try to consolidate a power base. The faith is a good start and releasing Jaffur would help. Seers might be an option. Sorcerers...we are biased against them and are in no position to take advantage.
The issue here is that the best way would be to befriend children from important clans but us not liking fighting makes it hard.
h) Learn if any other misfit has a trait worth exploiting.
i) Befriend Jaron and Betarel: They are our in to Jaffur.
j) Get more info on the galaxy. See what can be exploited via diplomacy to make us more useful to our race.
k) Actually, fuck it. Get political power in Garenhuld too.
l) Meet saiyans scientists. Diplo, intrigue, stewardship and learning instead of martial. Aim for cultural victory civilization style.
m) Learn the damn Vegetan protocols.
n) Tie clans closer together via marriage (either Jaron with misfits, us with Jaffur, us with Betarel. The important thing is making the Lords being friends that actually meet for social instead of just politics)
ñ) Abuse our traits. Always list which traits come into effect when making a plan.
And some things that don't come to mind right now. Basically, since martial is not our strong suit, gather power any other way. If we get good enough at everything else to the point people rely on us for that... they will hand us power without even realizing it. Though for now we should focus on appearances. Act as if everything is under control, rearrange the plan Since Berra already showed 1M then maybe use that to discourage the scouts. Have him being more open with his power level? Stablish him as the planet's champion in the eyes of the scouts.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Have a tally!
It gets pretty ridiculous. Combat rolls are on a d100, and power levels at 10% separation add +30. 20% adds +60 or more. Then you add relevant skills, then styles, then circumstantial modifiers. And that covers the first exchange of combat; "the two fighters charge at each other for a strike," for example. Then you proceed to the next exchange; "fighter A disengages to fire blasts, fighter B tries to stay in range." And then another, and another, and another, until things resolve one way or another. There's actually a ludicrous amount of math behind each fight, and it's very boring to look at. There's a reason it's usually hidden.
In this case, the scout tended to trail you slightly on rolls, tie you on skills, nail you on styles (always, obviously), and then absolutely hammer you on the circumstantial modifiers, especially on the crucial roles where he literally just had to lose slowly enough to still remain able to scream for help. But overall, even piling all of that on still had him losing on schedule, even without the cookies. You'd just have broken an arm and had his team inbound in the process. With the cookies, you didn't even suffer that before the transformation check (on that one, you tied on rolls (or near enough -- within five points of each other), got steamrolled on skills, ate shit on styles, and ate -50 for circumstances. He's practiced that transformation quite a bit).
Berra really isn't telling you off for not following the plan; he's lamenting that he has to switch to Plan B. And remember that once it came down the wire and you were on a time crunch on top of everything else, he authorized you for unrestricted power usage.
But remember, he did say he'd explain why later. He will, very soon.
Gore17 actually answered pretty well on this one. Raditz's family, the Senzus, are planning revolutionary activities, but the current plan is to free Jaffur by subterfuge and then present the decision in a way that renders Berra helpless to object by political fiat. There actually isn't explicit violence involved at any stage of the plan.
Sparring doesn't trigger it, no. She tends to hold back even more than sparring would suggest. The worst that happens to her friends while she's sparring with them is them getting tumbled across the floor. Plus...Kakara is very competitive. And in Exile culture, sparring isn't violence. It's sport. Even pacifists play American Football, and people die doing that. Honestly, Kakara wouldn't feel uncomfortable about sparring whatsoever if her Pacifist trait hadn't originally developed out of "Gentle."
Violence is by dictionary definition very specifically restricted to the application of physical force. Threatening violence is not a physical action. Nobody says you need to follow through on that threat. For that matter, at a high enough power level, powering up doesn't even need to be a threat, implicit or otherwise. If you stand between the instigator and their victim and simply refuse to be moved, is that violence? In fact, people in real life have used this tactic.
Kakara simply has the luxury of it being a survivable one should the aggressor continue their assault.
Write-in territory.
Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 427 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.5
[x] Broad disclosure. Give her a filtered version of the events as you know them. You had a Vision a while ago, saying aliens were coming and that they were hostile. Tell her everything through the lens of human ki users being the active parties.
No. of Votes: 12
[X] Full disclosure. Surely you can convince Dad to cast away the Masquerade your people have maintained for centuries for not terribly much reason at all, right? Well, once you do, go walk back upstairs without a Masque on, and start explaining.
No. of Votes: 2
Total No. of Voters: 14
##### NetTally 1.7.5
[x] Broad disclosure. Give her a filtered version of the events as you know them. You had a Vision a while ago, saying aliens were coming and that they were hostile. Tell her everything through the lens of human ki users being the active parties.
No. of Votes: 12
[X] Full disclosure. Surely you can convince Dad to cast away the Masquerade your people have maintained for centuries for not terribly much reason at all, right? Well, once you do, go walk back upstairs without a Masque on, and start explaining.
No. of Votes: 2
Total No. of Voters: 14
It gets pretty ridiculous. Combat rolls are on a d100, and power levels at 10% separation add +30. 20% adds +60 or more. Then you add relevant skills, then styles, then circumstantial modifiers. And that covers the first exchange of combat; "the two fighters charge at each other for a strike," for example. Then you proceed to the next exchange; "fighter A disengages to fire blasts, fighter B tries to stay in range." And then another, and another, and another, until things resolve one way or another. There's actually a ludicrous amount of math behind each fight, and it's very boring to look at. There's a reason it's usually hidden.
In this case, the scout tended to trail you slightly on rolls, tie you on skills, nail you on styles (always, obviously), and then absolutely hammer you on the circumstantial modifiers, especially on the crucial roles where he literally just had to lose slowly enough to still remain able to scream for help. But overall, even piling all of that on still had him losing on schedule, even without the cookies. You'd just have broken an arm and had his team inbound in the process. With the cookies, you didn't even suffer that before the transformation check (on that one, you tied on rolls (or near enough -- within five points of each other), got steamrolled on skills, ate shit on styles, and ate -50 for circumstances. He's practiced that transformation quite a bit).
This right here it completely messed us up. We have no idea what his plan was or what stakes it might have. We try to follow it even so and now he tells us off for doing so and still doesn't explain.
Edit: I am assuming he had a good reason to tell our scouts to keep their power level that low instead of a more flexible order like "keep it a bit lower then the enemy.". If he had not done that there would not even be an issue! So I assumed a good reason!
Berra really isn't telling you off for not following the plan; he's lamenting that he has to switch to Plan B. And remember that once it came down the wire and you were on a time crunch on top of everything else, he authorized you for unrestricted power usage.
But remember, he did say he'd explain why later. He will, very soon.
Gore17 actually answered pretty well on this one. Raditz's family, the Senzus, are planning revolutionary activities, but the current plan is to free Jaffur by subterfuge and then present the decision in a way that renders Berra helpless to object by political fiat. There actually isn't explicit violence involved at any stage of the plan.
Sparring doesn't trigger it, no. She tends to hold back even more than sparring would suggest. The worst that happens to her friends while she's sparring with them is them getting tumbled across the floor. Plus...Kakara is very competitive. And in Exile culture, sparring isn't violence. It's sport. Even pacifists play American Football, and people die doing that. Honestly, Kakara wouldn't feel uncomfortable about sparring whatsoever if her Pacifist trait hadn't originally developed out of "Gentle."
Violence is by dictionary definition very specifically restricted to the application of physical force. Threatening violence is not a physical action. Nobody says you need to follow through on that threat. For that matter, at a high enough power level, powering up doesn't even need to be a threat, implicit or otherwise. If you stand between the instigator and their victim and simply refuse to be moved, is that violence? In fact, people in real life have used this tactic.
Kakara simply has the luxury of it being a survivable one should the aggressor continue their assault.
Write-in territory.
Except Pacifism, as it stands, already does that. Nothing about it needs to be changed for that.
[X] Full disclosure. Surely you can convince Dad to cast away the Masquerade your people have maintained for centuries for not terribly much reason at all, right? Well, once you do, go walk back upstairs without a Masque on, and start explaining.
NegativeJ
LOVE
- Location
- Est
Kakara seems to be a very... Well... Half-assed pacifist, especially thanks to her culture...
Also, the English language is a horrible thing... Estonian is worse is many ways, I know, but English has it's moments... Violence is defined as:
Eh, there's a variety of different types of pacifism.
Last edited:
fictionfan
Please sir, may I have some Meows?
- Location
- Tempe, AZ
What circumstances?
NegativeJ
LOVE
- Location
- Est
Hopefully not the Relena Peacecraft variety... *shutters intensely upon remembering wing mars*
Brought about by the Scouts martial art style, IIRC.
Kakara is what IRL is called a "conditional pacifist", and what Tv Tropes would call a "Martial Pacifist", who aims to be a "Badass Pacifist."
Relena Peacecraft is under "Badass Pacifist" incidentally.
Last edited:
NegativeJ
LOVE
- Location
- Est
Didn't we all ready ruin that slightly... Meaning if we are not careful Kakara might go full idiot pacifist trying to reaffirm her beliefs... *shutters*
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Had to beat him fast enough that he couldn't call for help, which he could do trivially.
NegativeJ
LOVE
- Location
- Est
We need to adopt these "fantastic" moves "PACIFIST CRUSH!" and "GOODWILL TO ALL MANKIND KICK!"...
Also Relena and Heero got married after while... cool... You know a good romance starts with holding a gun to your wife's head...
I'm stepping on the anti-pacifist Train...Relena Peacecraft is under "Badass Pacifist" incidentally.
Also Relena and Heero got married after while... cool... You know a good romance starts with holding a gun to your wife's head...
Last edited:
Bakkasama
There is always a greater fool
- Location
- Buenos Aires, Argentina
- Pronouns
- He/his
Eh, we can do a fighting style around not hurting others. Just use ki blocking for melee and heavy focus on telekinesis to grab the opponents without hurting them and to move their arms so that they miss their ki attacks. Telekinesis also has the advantage that if its strenght depends on power level then it can be used with oozaru and since it is not limited by physical speed it negates the agility malus of that form while taking advantage of the increased power level. Add ki sensing to use it across all the battlefield and some techniques to manouvre and distract so that you can actually catch your opponent and you are Golden. Maybe Four Witches both for ki blocking and grapples.
Of course, it would probably have penalties to ki proyection except signature moves since those are mostly ki attacks and those hurt.
Of course, it would probably have penalties to ki proyection except signature moves since those are mostly ki attacks and those hurt.
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
I could define pacifist, in reference to a pacifist protagonist, as somebody who self-prohibits harsh language or uncommon alterations of status quo.
But that would be stupid. :lol
Anything not coming from styles, skills, or power level. Among other things, your particular approach or objectives in combat. That's what mostly applied to him in this case.
NegativeJ
LOVE
- Location
- Est
She is a kid, why wouldn't she over do it?
Because, as a kid, she thinks calling rude language "violence" is really dumb?
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Well...
Cannot insightful this enough.
Kakara is-
*sudden brooding worry*
*checks character sheet*
*maths*
*panics*
-eleven. And she always has been.
Anyway, she's eleven. She doesn't even realize rude language can be called violence. If the players wanted to play the Scion who swallowed a dictionary, they needed Jaffur. :lol