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Dragon Ball: After the End

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I don't know if we are going to get rid of Pacifist, but we will need to figure out how we're gonna move forward. Are we going to double down, take a step back, make an exception in our rules, or something else entirely?

I will admit that I will throw my support behind a xenophopic exception even if it could hurt us in our interactions with good (or at least not bad) aliens in the future. But outside that, I would probably keep pacifist as is. It makes Kakara interesting as a character and will give a nice challenge for us to play with.

As for the defeat, well failure is part of growing up. You make mistakes, and pay for them. You learn from them, and grow stronger for it.
 
anailater said:
I think the failure of the plan was entirely because of people being able to follow the basic character trait of the MC and now people are just going to use it as an excuse to get rid of one of the most interesting elements of the story.
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I don't think anyone wants to get rid of Pacifism. We want to evolve it to where it won't tie our hands (like it did in this case) but we don't want to eliminate it. We should always seek the solution that doesn't require punching faces (no matter how righteously). But sometimes we won't be able to do that, and in those cases we need to be able to do combat to some degree.
 
anailater said:
Im not making veiled statements I'm making passive aggressive statements.

I think the failure of the plan was entirely because of people being able to follow the basic character trait of the MC and now people are just going to use it as an excuse to get rid of one of the most interesting elements of the story.
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Right, well, those aren't any better. Just be aggressive if you're doing that. Or rather, I'd prefer you weren't aggressive, passive-aggressive, veiled, or whatnot, but if you're going to be negative toward the people who didn't vote like you, please at least be honest enough to not be passive-aggressive about it. Passive-aggressivenes is not constructive or helpful in any context. :(

And my point is that the people who voted for Crapbaskets are not universally "not being able to follow the basic character trait of the MC" (instead, they didn't fully grasp the explanations that the QM had given thus far on the nuances, such as they are, that the character has of said trait's beliefs), and they are definitely not universally "going to use it as an excuse to get rid of one of the most interesting elements of the story".

I've already admitted more than once that my own vote for this plan was a mistake, I've never really said "yeah let's ditch Pacifism", and I'm trying to be open to ideas and plans that would further us maintaining that ideal.
I'm not 100% committed to keeping the trait exactly as it was before this crisis, but I'm against abandoning it. I think it needs some refinement, whether it's to "Gohan-Like Pacifism" or some other iteration, I won't commit just yet.

Now, if you wish to continue to assert that everyone who voted for @KaintukeeBob 's plan is exactly like what you're describing, please tell me where my statements about my own motivations and viewpoints are wrong, not only in the sense of "that's not how it works", but also "that's not what you're thinking", since your assertions are not just about effect, but intent.
 
anailater said:
Never said it was, but it's how I feel i've had a shitty day and I dont want one of my favourite quests to go down the shitter cause of one shit decision.
I've already seen the exact same thing happen in that one Shirou RWBY quest and it ruined that quest completely.
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By my count, there's been two in a row so far.

That said, now that that situation is over and we're talking again, I think we've made it over the hump. Kakara will come back from this, we will restore Jaffur, and we will get the scouts either off of our planet, or subjugated as a group of servants.

Oh, and they were kind enough to bring us a ship. That's got to go to one of the Gokun clans, since the Vegetans have a ship of their own already. Sure, ours is newer and better in every way, but who's really going to complain?
 
anailater said:
Never said it was, but it's how I feel i've had a shitty day and I dont want one of my favourite quests to go down the shitter cause of one shit decision.
I've already seen the exact same thing happen in that one Shirou RWBY quest and it ruined that quest completely.
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still out of line

Trying to change the direction of the quest is one thing, but being passively-agressive is not the way to do it. I suggest stopping now.
 
KaintukeeBob said:
That said, now that that situation is over and we're talking again, I think we've made it over the hump. Kakara will come back from this, we will restore Jaffur, and we will get the scouts either off of our planet, or subjugated as a group of servants.
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Why had that never occurred to me!? They can play the villains that we use to help lower the Masquerade! We could totally make it work, since you don't need to have too high of a power level to make normal people and all of their technology totally irrelevant.
 
Aranfan said:
The problem with crap baskets was that it had violence as a first resort.
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*Takes a deep breath*

Yes, thank you, most of us realize that between the lecture @PoptartProdigy gave us with the update, and the almost 20 pages of discussion and arguments since then.

Honest question, what contribution to the discussion at hand do you believe your statement is providing? I'm asking, not accusing; I want to understand what in particular you are hoping to accomplish by making this statement.
 
fictionfan said:
Also can we get Dad to explain his plan a major reason behind our plan was trying to work with his unknown plan. Which was a about impossible seeing as we did not know it. So we we could not show any of our cards because we didn't know what was important.

Edit: In fact right now I am mad that he still hasn't told us.
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Can we give him shit about this plan he apparently told everybody except us about until the situation went FUBAR and combat had already begun, before he had the audacity to lecture us about prioritizing following his directions regarding as closely as possible instead of exercising the discretion he had denied us the necessary context to wield? Why, it's almost as if he nearly got one of his subordinates killed in order to keep up the act, then had the audacity to complain about Kakara assuming that there must have been a pretty important reason behind that decision.
 
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Lailoken said:
Can we give him shit about this plan he apparently told everybody except us about until the situation went FUBAR and combat had already begun, then had the audacity to lecture us about prioritizing following his directions regarding as closely as possible instead of exercising the discretion he had denied us the necessary context to wield? Why, it's almost as if he nearly got one of his subordinates killed in order to keep up the act, then had the audacity to complain about Kakara assuming that there must have been a pretty important reason behind that decision.
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Or he only told the adults who were actively involved with the search.
We fit neither of those criteria.

And again, we fucked up, guys. Flailing around blaming everyone but ourselves for things we did wrong is the worst possible reaction.
 
We should ask dad to get us acting lessons or something, we really need to learn how to lie. Maybe he can find a conman or two to teach us?

Because, frankly, our deceit is terrible. Which, since we're a pacifist, kind of weakens us. A lot.
 
Carrnage said:
Maybe he should have told others then?
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Or maybe this was supposed to be a discrete plan due to having many interlocking parts?

I mean, again, I'm trying to extend the benefit of the doubt here, not only to Berra The Character, but also @PoptartProdigy , in that when Berra said "I'll explain later", he meant it, and that @PoptartProdigy has a well-thought-out reason for why things played out the way they did.

People are upset we didn't already get the explanation, but honestly I get the sense it wasn't included in the update because @PoptartProdigy just didn't include it. In other words, its exclusion is an Out Of Character decision, not an In Character one.

Frankly, I kind of prefer the "focus" of this most recent update being the conversation about how things "went down", and then giving us a decision about how much Disclosure. I would wager that we'll get Berra's explanation about his Plan somewhere in the midst of the Disclosure bit. If not, I trust @PoptartProdigy to not have made Berra a liar about this, and that the Plan Explanation is being held off so that he (our QM) isn't overloaded with writing too much at once.
 
Carrnage said:
Especially when a vote is cut off in the middle of discussion causing two variants of the leading plan to lose before they can consolidate.
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Can we please not get back into the cycle of salt and frustration about that? I'm not happy with how things played out, I'm not saying what won "should" have won compared to the other possibilities, but our QM has explicitly asked that we not get into "I told you sos" or arguments about the validity of votes. You want to get mad at someone about how that played out, get mad at the QM, not anyone else.
 
KnightDisciple said:
Can we please not get back into the cycle of salt and frustration about that? I'm not happy with how things played out, I'm not saying what won "should" have won compared to the other possibilities, but our QM has explicitly asked that we not get into "I told you sos" or arguments about the validity of votes. You want to get mad at someone about how that played out, get mad at the QM, not anyone else.
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Then dont use player choice as a rebuttal to the possibility that a character made mistakes.
 
So, in a blatant attempt to change the subject, let's assume we end up with a shiny new ship after the scouts are dealt with.

What do you think we should do with it?

Other than the obvious 'nothing, we're hiding'.
 
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