Dragon Ball: After the End
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Sneaking up behind someone with a knife is really the smartest style.
Aranfan
Team Plasma Grunt
That does seem to be the case, given how it seems to work in Dragon Ball.
I'm picturing a glowing, screaming ninja trying to sneak into a castle at night.
Although there is a reason to I wanted to work on invisibility.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Yeah, I remembered someone mentioning that a short while ago and how Poptart said something like "Get Ki Talents to Elite, and then we'll talk." If we weren't about to go to war, I'd say we ought to spend the 3 or so actions it would take to get Ki Talents up there and do it; even if the enemy could see where we were and we could just mask where our limbs are, that would be a pretty brutal advantage in hand-to-hand. Not to mention all the shenanigans actual complete invisibility would bring... but as it is, it's unclear how long real invisibility would take to research.
Oh, and sorry for taking so long to understand the Kaio-Ken Oozaru plan - I think I had it in my head that Kaio-Ken's strain was at the level of what's actually SSJ Kaio-Ken.
Quest
The Great One
- Location
- Everywhere
From the wiki:
"After realizing Goku was stronger than the others he had battled from Ginyu to Piccolo and even Vegeta, Frieza used 50% of his maximum power, which gave him an enormous power boost. According to Tien Shinhan and King Kai in the manga, Goku was using Kaio-ken x10 throughout the fight, to have even a chance at battling Frieza, but even this was not nearly enough. Goku then attempted to use the Kaio-ken x20, which very briefly gave him speed and power enough to strike Frieza, setting him up for a Kamehameha, which Frieza amazingly held off with one hand before taking the full extent of the blast."
See bolded portion. That's base form Goku, and Oozaru can handle higher multiplications. Super Saiyin Kaioken was never done outside of movies IIRC, but we know it's possible but crippling here since our dad's learnt it to counter an enemy with the Kaioken-Great Ape combo. Actually learning that is very far down the list, when we actually have an idea of what Kaio-ken involves and we know if it's actually possible without crippling ourselves.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Yeah, I looked it up myself when it became clear my mental scale was all wrong.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Is our end-game with the spirit-bomb using Tien's attacks with other people's energy, or the spirit bomb with our own? And if it's the first, do you think we could convince the Ancestor Cultists praying for us to contribute on a regular basis? Maybe we can find a way to store this stuff...
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Or you know, mastering goku style to understand both.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
Spirit bomb's a lost technique, so the current understanding of the style probably won't help with that. And it's still penalising Team Fighting, though I suppose it's a step up from Vegeta style since we know some of the moves already. Maybe we can ask Dad to train us in Kaio-Ken though?
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
I'm not sure if we've got the Seer chops for it, but this sounds like it could be used to make a sort of pre-flex fighting style. Hitting where the enemy is going to be before they're there. Knowing what they're going to do before they do it and countering it.
Given our pacifistic tendencies, much of this would probably be used to avoid fighting altogether, anticipating responses to talk down and/or demoralize the enemy.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
But since we're going to max out multiform for actions anyway, and Perfect Multiform very much IS combat viable (4 full-power bodies!), why wouldn't we spend a few more actions upgrading it? And the only seer technique we know of that would be all that useful in combat would be ki sealing, which would admittedly be amazing.
That would also be pretty great, but I doubt even practitioner level is enough to pull that off.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
Ki Sight with a pressure point style
- Location
- Australia
As stated by PoptartProdigy, Perfect Multiform would take a long research project taking years just to invent. Combined with the long amount of time it takes to create a style and it's just not worth the time in my opinion.
You're forgetting that Ki Sense also grants us combat precognition. We're the best ki senser in all of Garenhuld and a style that involves it will make our Ki Sense modifier the same as if it was Legendary+1 when we get to Master. Getting to Master would also let us break the Elite barrier and truly get Ki Sense to Legendary, which when combined with it being an involved technique in a style we're a Master of would mean it would give us the same bonus as if it were Legendary+3.
That's a lot of combat precog without even touching our seer abilities.
EDIT: Legendary+3 equates to a +80 to combat precog checks.
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Actually:
I felt like being cheeky and linking to the character sheet for this for a moment.If it's a style that you're creating, by necessity it can only involve techniques that Kakara knows. Now, it'll take some time -- enough that you can learn techniques next year and incorporate them into the style as it develops -- but any technique with a use in combat can be involved. Penalized skills I mostly draw from whatever the involved techniques don't cover.
So we can just add it to the style.
And still support the idea of developing a pacifist/non-lethal style.
- Location
- Australia
You disputed exactly zero of what I said. Inventing any technique still takes years of research and inventing a style still takes years of effort, more effort than what's required to simply learn a style.
Such a style is completely misguided. If we're going to develop a fighting style, it should be a maximally effective fighting style. Pacifism means avoiding unnecessary fights, not fighting in a certain way.
Except the plan, from what I can tell, is to invent a style better suited for Kakara and her techniques anyway. You yourself seem to be arguing for this:
So why not add Perfect Multi-form to it?
That very much depends on the "style" of pacifism you subscribe to, but more importantly, the style would be for if Kakara is forced to fight. And while I would try my absolute hardest to avoid that, it can still happen, and the risk needs to be addressed.
Also, it would be a good sparring style.
- Location
- Actually pretty lost
I think a permanent 4x boost to our combat capabilities is worth it; in fact, I think it's so worth it I'd spend 3 actions twice in a row to try and get it done, though I appreciate that in reality we will likely have other demands on our time. I also think the ability to force any fight to be exactly the kind of fight we've trained for is an important bonus. If we had it right now, we alone would effectively outnumber every other free SSJ on the planet. Honestly, given that we want to master Tien style for the design bonus I suspect we'll have perfect multiform before we even start designing.
If I ever knew Ki Sense meant combat precog, I forgot it. That would be super excellent though, and I fully support it.
After the invasion, what do you guys think about spending an action learning how both Saiyans and Garenhulders approach research? We want to research both spirit bomb and perfect multiform at the moment, and no doubt in the future there'll be other things we need to research. Besides, it'll give us some insight into high-level thinking of both worlds.
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- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
That would be correct, but in that situation I have a hard time imagining any threat demanding a legion of Oozaru not stamping those clones in about three seconds.
I hold that no single body is the "real" one. Otherwise it turns into that cliche of, "target the only real one," and multiform has enough critical flaws already.
- Location
- Australia
@PoptartProdigy, you know how the Neo Tri-Beam is basically just a better version of Tri-Beam? Well rather than going the Cell route of making the Multiform clones have 100% power, we instead make a kind of Neo Multiform that's basically the same as Multiform, but it gives us more clones/is more energy efficient? Would be a decent method of us getting yet more actions.
Sucal
The Devil’s Cut
- Location
- Bottom of the barrel
I'm pretty sure if we keep increasing our actions Poppy will drastically increase the number of threats!
- Location
- Rockford, USA
- Pronouns
- They/Them
Cell's version is multiform but with no energy loss from splitting, so I consider that to already be the "Neo Multiform."
Multiple different battlegrounds/attackers? Which is honestly what I imagine the Multi-Form is for...