Dragon Ball: After the End

[Andres]

The options were specifically comparing them to each other.

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What the option for Jaffur was is irrelevant to what I'm saying. I'm not talking about choosing between Berra or Vegeta as a father, I'm talking about Berra and what he could've been. The option for Kakara said that our family would be useful, but Berra isn't useful. He's the opposite of useful. Better Berra than Vegeta, but that doesn't mean Berra is still better than a hypothetical neutral father.

My point is, Berra is a negative force in our life. Vegeta would've been worse, but if the Lord Goku who was our father was different to both of them, one that was merely neutral rather than degrees of negative, that would've been better. It wouldn't have been what was advertised (that being that family would be a positive factor in our life), but it would've been better than what we have now.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

@PoptartProdigy, the OP implies that our family would be useful, but they've so far been not only been utterly useless but actually hindrances in the form of Dad and Mato. When are we going to start seeing the benefits of having them?

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You already do. Your family is an incredibly strong support network, to the point where even Mato would still stick his neck out for you (at this point). You all just...haven't been using them to their fullest extent. There's significant resistance to any motion in favor of trusting or relying on Dad, citing the obvious plot against him; you never really think about your siblings; and your mother is rarely mentioned. But your Dad is the Lord Goku and -- importantly -- completely unaware of your plotting. Thus, the full breadth of his expertise and skills are available to you for anything kosher you'd like. In fact, you already have taken some advantage; with the background rolls, you can actually thank Berra being your teacher for your progress thus far in both Intrigue and Communication, each of which would be a rank lower without his input. His inclusion as your Oozaru instructor meant that you not only made huge progress on the form, you aced it so hard that you blew straight through to Golden Oozaru in a year's time (after the disastrous first year, that is). You'd have needed more actions invested for that otherwise. Your mother, I mentioned a while ago, has the Teaching skill at Elite, putting her among the most skilled individuals on Garenhuld and making her the best possible tutor for anything you could care to learn that she has enough knowledge in. And your siblings are willing to support and stick their necks out for you on any field you care to name. The trouble is that you all are fairly cagey; your family genuinely doesn't know about a lot of the troubles you could use help with.

In terms of actions invested, you've invested two (bear in mind, only the first was needed to stop the relationship from collapsing, the second was just gravy; and the entire situation only came about because one of the big winning options of the reaction to the Seal was anger) into Berra and gotten a calculated two back from the various things he's been teaching you. You'll continue to get more back in terms of efficiency as he continues to tutor you, making him a solid net profit. Mato will need at least one, but his ambition and drive make him a devoted ally if properly channeled. Your mother will approximately double the leveling speed of any skill training you do under her (if she is at least Competent herself in the involved skills). Your younger siblings are primarily useful for socialization and emotional stability at this point, but will themselves develop into exceptionally loyal people with their own talents as time goes on.

Ultimately, getting use out of your family depends on doing things that they can help with in ways that let them know you could use the help. Passively, they serve as reinforcement to your mental and emotional state; Kakara has had to make one mental health check even with all the shit she's going through, where ordinarily your average Seer under these kinds of pressures would have been subjected to five. But more apparent uses depend on specifically choosing to go seek them out. Thus far, the courses of action taken have steered clear of your family.

...You know, I only now just realized the significance of Kakara's brother being named 'Mato'.

Kudos to you, @PoptartProdigy.

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Coincidence, I swear.

Neat. I fully support learning this at some point, just not right now. If nothing else, training our own multiform up first will make this easier.


Sounds cool, but I think we have more important stuff in the short term. And given how Senzu Beans just fix everything, I think Ki Healing won't necessarily require that level of precision. Also, did you check this one with @PoptartProdigy ?

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Moments ago, yes.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Perhaps not now, with these invaders, but it's going to happen eventually. I guarantee it.

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Even if it does, that doesn't make this the time it's going to happen. And I don't think training our friends to fight is going to keep them safe.

Allow me to clarify on my position: learning more techniques and improving our skills will not massively help one-way or another with the scouting force, and we have years to prepare for the main invasion force. I would prefer to get these out of the way, so we can focus on other stuff over the next two years.

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We have 3 turns to prepare for the main invasion force where- hang on, I said this already:

Sure, but it's been established that a group of weaker fighters can defeat a Super Saiyan already in this quest - in fact, it's been established a single regular Saiyan could do it. And we don't just have to beat the entire army of unknown strength coming our way, we have to crush it so badly there's no survivors, no escapees, no last-minute-transmissions telling other people about us... all without letting the Garenhuldians (Garenhulders? I think I keep using different terms...) notice the massive armada-annihilating space battle.

This isn't a trivial threat.

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Where does it say that? And even if true, that means we grind up our Seer skill even more, allowing us to reach the point of Mind Projection quicker.

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@PoptartProdigy am I right in thinking that if we fail to convince Sensei to teach us about Mind Projection we'll spend that action doing regular seer training? And would Grandma be willing to teach us telepathy, or is she too busy?

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That's correct.

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Unless you meant Skill degradation, which would be a colossal waste:

[ ] Maintain Your Skills (1 action): You're not really focused on training. Why is everybody so obsessed with strength, anyway? Effect: Focus only on maintaining your current standing in Combat and its component skills. Does not need to be taken if any of the above are successfully taken. If you take some of the above but fail all of them, you still risk skill atrophy. I'll cop to it, this is for game balance over realism.

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We need him to teach us Mind Projection. And quite frankly, if he's not keeping an eye on us and what we'll be doing in the future, I would be completely shocked.

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We don't know that he can specifically trigger future-sight visions; if Seers could do that, we would have avoided a great deal of our terrible recent history.

I feel the opposite, that you're monofocusing on something to the point we fail in other areas. I'm not happy about slacking off with our studies either incidentally.

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MATHS

Hang on, I just realised that even if you consider primary school grades to actually be a thing we care about (note: you really shouldn't) we should pick Slack anyway. Ironically enough, I used maths!

Let's say we want to maintain our grades over two turns. We can do this one of three ways:

1. We pick Maintain Grades twice, for 2*2=4 actions (dear god please no)
2. We pick Slack, and don't fail the relatively easy roll 1*2 = 2 actions (or 1+2 = 3 actions if we decide to Maintain Grades next turn anyway, but that's dumb because of the same maths that says it's dumb this turn)
3. We pick Slack, fail the skill check, and next turn make up for it by choosing to Raise Grades on a roll we "should almost certainly succeed." 1+3 = 4 actions

So even if we pick Slack, we end up with the same grades - and we have a better than even chance of spending an entire 2 less actions!

Also, not going to lie, if we pick Slack and fail then we can totally decide that since as future Lady we care more about Saiyan stuff than our Masque job and that Bs are perfectly acceptable grades and we won't be forced into degenerate homelessness for not getting straight As. But we'll cross that bridge when we get to it!

MATHEMATICS TRIUMPHS AGAIN!

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I might agree with some of the social options if we weren't explicitly told by the QM that we would in no way be neglecting our friendships by not picking friendly actions. But we were, so I don't. And we've been told there's a bunch of outside context problems on timers headed our way.

We can always take social actions later if I'm wrong. We can't if everyone's dead.

You already do. Your family is an incredibly strong support network, to the point where even Mato would still stick his neck out for you (at this point). You all just...haven't been using them to their fullest extent. There's significant resistance to any motion in favor of trusting or relying on Dad, citing the obvious plot against him; you never really think about your siblings; and your mother is rarely mentioned. But your Dad is the Lord Goku and -- importantly -- completely unaware of your plotting. Thus, the full breadth of his expertise and skills are available to you for anything kosher you'd like. In fact, you already have taken some advantage; with the background rolls, you can actually thank Berra being your teacher for your progress thus far in both Intrigue and Communication, each of which would be a rank lower without his input. His inclusion as your Oozaru instructor meant that you not only made huge progress on the form, you aced it so hard that you blew straight through to Golden Oozaru in a year's time (after the disastrous first year, that is). You'd have needed more actions invested for that otherwise. Your mother, I mentioned a while ago, has the Teaching skill at Elite, putting her among the most skilled individuals on Garenhuld and making her the best possible tutor for anything you could care to learn that she has enough knowledge in. And your siblings are willing to support and stick their necks out for you on any field you care to name. The trouble is that you all are fairly cagey; your family genuinely doesn't know about a lot of the troubles you could use help with.

In terms of actions invested, you've invested two (bear in mind, only the first was needed to stop the relationship from collapsing, the second was just gravy; and the entire situation only came about because one of the big winning options of the reaction to the Seal was anger) into Berra and gotten a calculated two back from the various things he's been teaching you. You'll continue to get more back in terms of efficiency as he continues to tutor you, making him a solid net profit. Mato will need at least one, but his ambition and drive make him a devoted ally if properly channeled. Your mother will approximately double the leveling speed of any skill training you do under her (if she is at least Competent herself in the involved skills). Your younger siblings are primarily useful for socialization and emotional stability at this point, but will themselves develop into exceptionally loyal people with their own talents as time goes on.

Ultimately, getting use out of your family depends on doing things that they can help with in ways that let them know you could use the help. Passively, they serve as reinforcement to your mental and emotional state; Kakara has had to make one mental health check even with all the shit she's going through, where ordinarily your average Seer under these kinds of pressures would have been subjected to five. But more apparent uses depend on specifically choosing to go seek them out. Thus far, the courses of action taken have steered clear of your family.

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Well now I feel like we should find some way of doing constructive things with our family. Training, perhaps?
EDIT: Do we know what our family's skills are? We only have Berra in the info.

 

[The Fourth Monado]

Well now I feel like we should find some way of doing constructive things with our family. Training, perhaps?

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We need to spend time with her brother and get a good relationship with him.

This is important. Very important.

 

[Sucal]

Even if it does, that doesn't make this the time it's going to happen. And I don't think training our friends to fight is going to keep them safe.


We have 3 turns to prepare for the main invasion force where- hang on, I said this already:




Unless you meant Skill degradation, which would be a colossal waste:



We don't know that he can specifically trigger future-sight visions; if Seers could do that, we would have avoided a great deal of our terrible recent history.


MATHS


I might agree with some of the social options if we weren't explicitly told by the QM that we would in no way be neglecting our friendships by not picking friendly actions. But we were, so I don't. And we've been told there's a bunch of outside context problems on timers headed our way.

We can always take social actions later if I'm wrong. We can't if everyone's dead.



Well now I feel like we should find some way of doing constructive things with our family. Training, perhaps?
EDIT: Do we know what our family's skills are? We only have Berra in the info.

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My Sucal mk2 plan will likely involve mother at one point, maybe for medicine or healing

 

[PoptartProdigy]

We need to spend time with her brother and get a good relationship with him.

This is important. Very important.

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Wait, no, I was serious. They're just the same name, they're really not the same people.

 

[Sucal]

Wait, no, I was serious. They're just the same name, they're really not the same people.

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Clearly Mato is the reincarnation of Mato, so that Mato can Mato some more Mato

 

[The Fourth Monado]

Wait, no, I was serious. They're just the same name, they're really not the same people.

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do I need to mention [REDACTED]? I'm pretty sure the same destiny you mentioned applies to him.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Plan Deathbybunnies V6

Masquerade
[ ] Slack (1 action)
[ ] Nosy Little Girl (1 action)
2/13

A Warrior's Path
[ ] Train Ki Manipulation (2 actions)
-[ ] Train with Mom (Assuming she's competent?)
[ ] Command Training (1 action)
-[ ] Train with Mom (Assuming she's competent?)
5/13

Style Training
[ ] Train Style [Tenshinhan] (1 action)
-[ ] Train with Mom (Assuming she's competent?)
[ ] Train Specific Skill (1 action, may be taken multiple times) Multiform
-[ ] Train with Mom (Assuming she's competent?)
7/13

The Mysteries
[ ] Beg Sensei To Teach You [Write-In Specific Technique] (1 action) Mind Projection
8/13

The Pulse of Life
[ ] Family First (1 action) Mato
[ ] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
10/13

Breaking the Seal
[ ] Get Organized (1 action)
11/13

Personal
[ ] New Tricks (1 action) Telepathy
-[ ] Train with Mom (Assuming she's competent?)
-[ ] If she isn't, learn from Grandma
[ ] The Examined Life (1 action) Driven
13/13

Some people really want Best Fit. Would people prefer Best Fit or Nosy Little Girl? (In the short term, at least, I can't in good conscience drop the other stuff. As soon as these more imminent crises have passed, we can drop down the training a bit and socialise some more, but default relationship maintenance means we aren't currently in danger of becoming a recluse even if we did nothing but train in our actions - we'd still have a healthy social life, with several friends.)

EDIT: Turned all our training to training with Mom, since she's apparently an Elite+ Teacher. Who knew?

 

[PoptartProdigy]

do I need to mention [REDACTED]? I'm pretty sure the same destiny you mentioned applies to him.

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I mean, you'd think that, but they really are just two people with the same name. Total coincidence. Besides, [REDACTED] already happened here, remember?

Now, let's stop teasing the thread with spoilers.

 

[Gore17]

Even if it does, that doesn't make this the time it's going to happen. And I don't think training our friends to fight is going to keep them safe.

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It makes them safer. And opens up the "superhero" antics in the future.

We have 3 turns to prepare for the main invasion force where- hang on, I said this already:

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I saw that, and I disagree on the premise that Kakara getting a bit more skilled fighting will help, mainly because there's three other, more skilled Super Saiyans already doing the job, and partially on account of me planning on having Kakara avoid fighting entirely. I'm in the "True Pacifist" camp, you see.

Unless you meant Skill degradation, which would be a colossal waste:

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What?

We don't know that he can specifically trigger future-sight visions; if Seers could do that, we would have avoided a great deal of our terrible recent history.

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He can, it's their best usage. I mean, that's how he earns an income: visions on demand.

MATHS

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Raise Grades isn't guaranteed, and I'd prefer we do that anyway. The longer we slack, the harder things will get on the education front.

I might agree with some of the social options if we weren't explicitly told by the QM that we would in no way be neglecting our friendships by not picking friendly actions. But we were, so I don't. And we've been told there's a bunch of outside context problems on timers headed our way.

We can always take social actions later if I'm wrong. We can't if everyone's dead.

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And having strong social bonds will help.

 

[Sucal]

Plan Deathbybunnies V5

Masquerade
[ ] Slack (1 action)
[ ] Nosy Little Girl (1 action)
2/13

A Warrior's Path
[ ] Train Ki Manipulation (2 actions)
-[ ] Train with Dad
[ ] Command Training (1 action)
5/13

Style Training
[ ] Train Style [Tenshinhan] (1 action)
[ ] Train Specific Skill (1 action, may be taken multiple times) Multiform
-[ ] Train with Mom (Assuming she's competent?)
7/13

The Mysteries
[ ] Beg Sensei To Teach You [Write-In Specific Technique] (1 action) Mind Projection
8/13

The Pulse of Life
[ ] Family First (1 action)
[ ] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
10/13

Breaking the Seal
[ ] Get Organized (1 action)
11/13

Personal
[ ] New Tricks (1 action) Telepathy
-[ ] Learn from Grandma
[ ] The Examined Life (1 action) Driven
13/13

Some people really want Best Fit. Would people prefer Best Fit or Nosy Little Girl? (In the short term, at least, I can't in good conscience drop the other stuff. As soon as these more imminent crises have passed, we can drop down the training a bit and socialise some more, but default relationship maintenance means we aren't currently in danger of becoming a recluse even if we did nothing but train all day - we'd still have a healthy social life, with several friends.)

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We have aa healthy human social life. Our Saiyan one sucks

 

[Andres]

Thus, the full breadth of his expertise and skills are available to you for anything kosher you'd like.

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The problem is we don't know them. I asked if we could ask him what skills he has, but you said you'd do so only after the next scene with him. I really do have to ask that you just put them in the character sheet. IC it's a conversation that would take a few minutes to conclude and doesn't require us to do an involved action with him to do.

Your mother, I mentioned a while ago, has the Teaching skill at Elite, putting her among the most skilled individuals on Garenhuld and making her the best possible tutor for anything you could care to learn that she has enough knowledge in.

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We have no idea what skills she has. We only found out she has Elite+ in Teaching by complete accident, when I asked about Berra's abilities. There were no hints prior that she was good for anything but emotional support. Please give us her character sheet so we can actually make use of her and make plans with her in mind.

EDIT2: There were no hints AT ALL that she's useful beyond emotional support if going only by the character sheet and updates.

EDIT:

You have very little disposable income, and Seers are pricey. But if you get some, or alternatively barter somehow, sure.

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This was in response to me asking if we could hire them to provide bonuses to our actions. Can we ask Dad to hire them for the purpose of speeding up our growth?

Can we barter by doing what we did in Birthday Gift, by temporarily power-boosting them to a level they'd never be able to reach or experience on their own?

 

[Deathbybunnies]

It makes them safer. And opens up the "superhero" antics in the future.

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Superhero antics would be amusing! They can wait until our friends are out of primary school.

What?

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What do you mean, what? I literally quoted the action that shows that failing all of our rolls under A Warrior's Path of which you have 1 will cause our skills to actively degrade.

He can, it's their best usage. I mean, that's how he earns an income: visions on demand.

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And yet we have the Talts, the Peats, the fight between Vegeta and Berra, etc.? Are you honestly claiming they wouldn't have done something about those? I mean seriously, just Berra vs Vegeta alone could have been averted by going up to him that morning and saying "hey, maybe pick your words a little carefully today!"

Raise Grades isn't guaranteed, and I'd prefer we do that anyway. The longer we slack, the harder things will get on the education front.

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We're in primary school. Slack is specifically noted to be unlikely to actually drop our grades, we can do Calculus. We're not an idiot. And no roll is guaranteed, but that one is extremely likely.

And having strong social bonds will help.

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We have strong social bonds! We have limited time before the possible collapse of the Masquerade and the notice of The Enemy! Not to mention again that Super Saiyans are explicitly noted to be beatable by groups of weaker opponents, or in the case of Endivan, a single weaker opponent! In this upcoming battle, as things stand it seems actively likely that if we don't prepare ourselves well enough Garenhuld and the wider galaxy are likely to notice us!

It's not like I'm proposing we become a shut-in! We explicitly maintain an active and healthy social life when not picking any social actions!

We have aa healthy human social life. Our Saiyan one sucks

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I feel that a large group of friends during Masque hours is enough; frankly, more than enough (though I would vote against any options to actively trim them down or neglect them.) In our Saiyan life we aren't completely alone - we have the recently mentioned loving family, and a few friends, and we have shit to do.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

This was in response to me asking if we could hire them to provide bonuses to our actions. Can we ask Dad to hire them for the purpose of speeding up our growth?

Can we barter by doing what we did in Birthday Gift, by temporarily power-boosting them to a level they'd never be able to reach or experience on their own?

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Yes to the first, if you can convince him it's of value.

No to the second, because that's an explicitly temporary boost that doesn't really get them anything long-term.

The character sheets are on my to-do list, but I have other demands on my time lately and they're a bit further back in priorities.

 

[Andres]

Yes to the first, if you can convince him it's of value.

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How does that work? We write-up an argument, vote for trying to convince him, and then if the write-up isn't good enough we do a Communication check?

No to the second, because that's an explicitly temporary boost that doesn't really get them anything long-term.

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The same could be said for holidays. Doesn't mean people wouldn't pay for them.

The character sheets are on my to-do list, but I have other demands on my time lately and they're a bit further back in priorities.

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Make them dry if you have to. Just list their skills so we know what bonuses we'll have when doing actions, the fluff text can come later.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

How does that work? We write-up an argument, vote for trying to convince him, and then if the write-up isn't good enough we do a Communication check?


The same could be said for holidays. Doesn't mean people wouldn't pay for them.


Make them dry if you have to. Just list their skills so we know what bonuses we'll have when doing actions, the fluff text can come later.

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It works by me making it an event series, given how much I love having the opportunity to write visions.

That's true, but people don't pay a year's salary to have twenty minutes off of work. The value is disproportionate.

They will get written, don't worry.

 

[Aranfan]

@PoptartProdigy

When can we start voting. there's been 6 pages of discussion

 

[Deathbybunnies]

@PoptartProdigy

When can we start voting. there's been 6 pages of discussion

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I believe the voting moratorium ends in 2 hours' time.

 

[Andres]

It works by me making it an event series, given how much I love having the opportunity to write visions.

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So we can't just do "Ask Dad to hire a seer to help us learn Multiform", we have to wait for a prompt in the updates to ask?

 

[PoptartProdigy]

So we can't just do "Ask Dad to hire a seer to help us learn Multiform", we have to wait for a prompt in the updates to ask?

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No, you can write that in. When it comes up in the yearly updates, that will be one of the things that I expand upon and have you all game out.

 

[Lailoken]

...IT has galactic range... The limit is knowing where you're going...

Can Kakara IT to someplace she has personally seen? Perhaps a place which had a convenient galactic map on display showing its exact position relative to Garenhuld? Perhaps with a preemptive strike force to wreck the main formation and butterfly their decisions into ending up somewhere other than Garenhuld years later?

I'm trying to do more then maintain her grades, I'm trying to maintain her ablitiy as a Scholar!

If you slack off at such formative years, you develop bad habits for later in life!

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She had a power level of 12 million before she turned eight despite the fact that she hates training. She knows how to apply herself. The question is whether she can properly prioritize during time manager.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

I edited my plan to basically have Mom teach us everything we're training assuming she's competent in the skill. Double progress? Yes please!

 

[Sucal]

She had a power level of 12 million before she turned eight despite the fact that she hates training. She knows how to apply herself. The question is whether she can properly prioritize during time manager.

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So did Goten. Doesn't mean I'd trust him to preform medicine on me.

My entire plan is to have Kara eventually become a doctor in her masque

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Plan Deathbybunnies V7

Masquerade
[ ] Slack (1 action)
[ ] Best Fit (1 action)
2/13

A Warrior's Path
[ ] Train Ki Manipulation (2 actions)
-[ ] Train with Mom (Assuming she's competent?)
[ ] Command Training (1 action)
-[ ] Train with Mom (Assuming she's competent?)
5/13

Style Training
[ ] Train Style [Tenshinhan] (1 action)
-[ ] Train with Mom (Assuming she's competent?)
[ ] Train Specific Skill (1 action, may be taken multiple times) Multiform
-[ ] Train with Mom (Assuming she's competent?)
7/13

The Mysteries
[ ] Beg Sensei To Teach You [Write-In Specific Technique] (1 action) Mind Projection
8/13

The Pulse of Life
[ ] Family First (1 action) Mato
[ ] A Scion's Duties III (1 action)
10/13

Breaking the Seal
[ ] Get Organized (1 action)
11/13

Personal
[ ] New Tricks (1 action) Telepathy
-[ ] Train with Mom (Assuming she's competent?)
-[ ] If she isn't, learn from Grandma
[ ] The Examined Life (1 action) Driven
13/13

Dropped
[ ] Nosy Little Girl (1 action)
Upon further consideration, it occurred to me that a close relationship with Jaron would probably make the Unsealing easier. I have replaced investigating why Maya no longer looks at us suspiciously anymore.

Oh, and if at all possible now we're learning our skill training from Mom, who is apparently an Elite+ teacher, which doubles our progress made. Who knew?

EDIT: Whoops, forgot to actually swap Best Fit and Nosy Little Girl