Dragon Ball: After the End

[Lailoken]

More likely he just doesn't want to get his sibling and family in trouble.

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In which case he could confess that he conspired, but refuse to name the other conspirators on the grounds that their repentance is their choice. There are ways for him to make a full confession without implicating the others if he were sincerely attempting to fully cleanse himself. However, even that would require him to believe that his Gods' judgement would be unjust, which doesn't fit with the rest of his story.

Still, Kakara has already demonstrated that she is restrained, just, and even merciful. He might be more willing to talk now now to just her, especially if directly confronted and it looks like the jig is up. Perhaps we should have a chat with him, or even Head Peat, before bringing Berra into it? If the Senzus have somebody with Mind Delve we might even be able to call on the alliance to recruit some help. They're ardent center-loyalists and just about ideological opposites of Peat.

 

[Andres]

In which case he could confess that he conspired, but refuse to name the other conspirators on the grounds that their repentance is their choice.

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It would be exceedingly obvious who his co-conspirators were if he confessed that he had co-conspirators.

 

[Lailoken]

It would be exceedingly obvious who his co-conspirators were if he confessed that he had co-conspirators.

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-and then they deny it, or he simply confess that he is a guilty of another crime of [x] severity which he denounces, but cannot reveal without committing another sin.

-which highlights the fact that it would involve him not being completely sincere about his new faith, for if the Lords truly were the divine incarnations of justice and authority any decision they made would also be the correct one. At the very least, he was too cowardly to live up to the demands of faith and ended up shirking while simultaneously claiming total humility and repentance through her illumination. He claimed to have totally devoted and subjected himself to the leaders, but very clearly did not actually do so.

I'd like to discover exactly what is going on before taking it to Berra, but whether we have the time is an open question. If we can afford to confront and investigate them ourselves it would seem wiser to do that. For all we know, they represent an opportunity similar to the Senzus.

 

[Gore17]

Or, you know, the Peat weren't involved in treason directly or knowingly, or even anything outright illegal. Following the advice of a trusted advisor isn't exactly wrong, nor would aiding the High Priest, they didn't know it would involve (arguable) treason.

House Peat has survived for a good long time, despite having a reputation as trouble-makers. And besides, if they're guilty of treason, so are others: remember that Vegetan man who started the whole argument?

-which highlights the fact that it would involve him not being completely sincere about his new faith, for if the Lords truly were the divine incarnations of justice and authority any decision they made would also be the correct one. At the very least, he was too cowardly to live up to the demands of faith and ended up shirking while simultaneously claiming total humility and repentance through her illumination. He claimed to have totally devoted and subjected himself to the leaders, but very clearly did not actually do so.

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Actually, he's devoted himself to Kakara. And you're really paranoid/cynical, aren't you?

I'd like to discover exactly what is going on before taking it to Berra, but whether we have the time is an open question. If we can afford to confront and investigate them ourselves it would seem wiser to do that. For all we know, they represent an opportunity similar to the Senzus.

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On this however, we agree. It's why I'm against telling Berra.

 

[Lailoken]

Or, you know, the Peat weren't involved in treason directly or knowingly, or even anything outright illegal. Following the advice of a trusted advisor isn't exactly wrong, nor would aiding the High Priest, they didn't know it would involve (arguable) treason.

House Peat has survived for a good long time, despite having a reputation as trouble-makers. And besides, if they're guilty of treason, so are others: remember that Vegetan man who started the whole argument?

Actually, he's devoted himself to Kakara. And you're really paranoid/cynical, aren't you?

On this however, we agree. It's why I'm against telling Berra.

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If following the advice isn't wrong, why did he slam his way into the conversation to shut Fanella up when she started talking about his meetings with the head of House Peat? Surely, meeting with his brother and former head isn't itself anything approaching punishable, yet he vastly overreacted if that were all there were to it.

"I've always wanted to be a priestess," says Fennella in between bites. "You get to be part of the Faith, everybody there respects you, and you get to lead the prayer ceremonies! Plus, I wouldn't be High Priest like Uncle Celeran, so I wouldn't have to pretend that I'm not a Peat."


You raise your eyebrows. "Pretend?"


She makes a rude noise. "Please. Everybody knows that my uncle is still part of the family. Just because he doesn't use his name anymore doesn't mean that he doesn't come around for family dinners. Usually he still does as my D-"


"Now, now, Fennella," says the High Priest, appearing behind his niece and laying a hand on her shoulder. To an ordinary saiyan Celeran would have appeared to have phased in, but to your eyes his approach was nearly painfully slow. "My oaths as High Priest compel me to maintain my loyalty to the whole of the Faith, not merely one House. I visit many families, across both Clans."


He looks nervous.


Fennella frowns up at him. "But Uncle Celeran, didn't you just have that talk with my Dad-"


"Well, I talk to many Heads, as the leader of the Faith should," he says, riding right over her and squeezing her shoulder a bit. "It is my duty. But yes, I speak to your father on occasion." He squeezes her again and then smiles at you. "Are you having fun with my niece, Lady Scion?"


You nod, smiling. "Yes. Fennella was just saying that she wants to be a priestess when she grows up. Not High Priestess, though. Because of the name thing."


You watch, carefully, and only barely catch the slightest flinch in the High Priest's shoulders as you say that.


Dad would probably be more furious than you've ever known him to be if you told him that the High Priest was still receiving orders from his Head. And then briefly grateful, just to make sure it was clear that he wasn't angry at you, before returning to utter fury.


Hm.


Thoughts for later.


The High Priest give you a shaky grin. "Well, I'm glad to hear that she wants to follow the old family tradition," he says. "If you would excuse me, Lady Scion? I need to go speak to one of my subordinates. We'll be starting relatively soon."

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The man was panicked, and so were the Peats and only the Peats, despite the official position that the Priest was no longer influenced by the House. They knew what was going on, and knew that they were potentially on the hook for it if it blew up even though by all rights they shouldn't be if they were in fact keeping their noses clean.

A bolt of pure terror lances through his presence, a terror you feel echoed in a small cluster of lesser presences around Fennella. The Peat House, you realize. Of course they would be here. Of course they would recognize your actions as a sign that they have at last pushed too far, and for too much.

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It wasn't just a concern about being caught in the blast simply because the priest was a former house member. When he said he was about to confess the Head of the House and nobody else in the entire arena reacted even more strongly. This wasn't shock, surprise, or disbelief, it was "Oh, shit, I'm about to die."

He slowly, gracefully, lowers himself to his knees, and bows his head to the floor at your feet. "My Lady Scion..." He takes a shuddering breath. "I have a confession to make."

You hear a sharp gasp from the Peats -- Head Peat, if he's the one who's the highest power level there.

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In fact, now that I reread it, I notice that he actually did what I suggested about confessing but not naming- he just hid it in a linguistic ambiguity that he knew would be interpreted as "plotted" instead of "was literally part of a conspiracy" before contextualizing it by going on about himself to distract from the crimes of his conspirators:

"I made this happen," says Celeran, shame in his voice. "I conspired to raise myself up as a true authority above the people of the Faith. I saw the chaos of our people, and inaction of those meant to protect us from ourselves, and I concluded that I was the only one who could save us. In my hubris, I sought to set myself against those touched by the Mandate of Heaven.

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Clever bastard.

 

[Bakkasama]

All right. Let's try again.

[X] Plan KISS
-[x] Tell Dad. This is his job; he can decide how to deal with it.
-[x] Tell Sensei. He'll know what to do.
--[x] Then Tell your conspirators (Grandma, the Senzus, and anybody else you bring in on things). They need to know this in case it'll impact the plan.

In case people missed the emphasis in italics: Saiyans are not morons. They knew an alien invasión was always a possibility and had OVER 200 YEARS to plan for this eventuality. At a cursory glance, it seems like people are making complicated plans for two reasons, one is to search for a loophole to teach ki to our Friends and the other is because they don't like that plan.

Now, aside from the fact that there is probably already a plan to deal with situations like this, I think the 'advantage' of teachin our Friends is a BAD IDEA. Because even if it were to allow us to teach them (which is pretty unlikely since even if it makes it known for them that ki exists it gives no reason why they should allow us to teach them) it would also mean that other saiyans with human Friends could try the same, making it harder to keep the Masquerade. On top of that, even if they know ki exists, teaching them about it is still a loose end and there is no reason (in fact, it would make it so that there is more of a reason) for the saiyans not to go with their standard practice of throwing saiyans to engineer a marriage and I am not about to take away their free choice. Specially since they would be the human Friends the Scion went through the trouble of training personally, which means that would be taken into consideration by those who volunteer for the task of seducing them.

Then there is the fact that it might not even work. Remember the time and effort that it took Goku and Krilin to train with Roshi. The misfits have prior engagements with school, families that would notice the training and other interests. Each of them has a different personality and things they like and training them would take away from their time to explore that since they, unlike us, need to sleep. They can refuse of course and they should but then what is the appeal of the martial artista plan?

[X] No

@PoptartProdigy if I understood right, the Peat vote was not originally intended to be part of the plan vote? I think it should be kept separate in case someone agrees to a plan but not how to handle the Peat situation as to not Split the voting.

 

[Andres]

[X] Plan KISS
[X] Yes

House Peat's rebelliousness has caused many problems in the past, nearly caused a very big one and was averted only because of MASTER DIPLOMACY on our part, and will in all likelihood cause many problems in the future. If letting them go is the best path forward for now, Dad will know that it is and will hold off on doing anything with the information. If punishing them for their treason is instead the best path, Dad will know that it is and will act on it.

 

[Gore17]

[X] Plan KISS
[X] No

House Peat's rebelliousness has caused many problems in the past, nearly caused a very big one and was averted only because of MASTER DIPLOMACY on our part, and will in all likelihood cause many problems in the future. If letting them go is the best path forward for now, Dad will know that it is and will hold off on doing anything with the information. If punishing them for their treason is instead the best path, Dad will know that it is and will act on it.

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What he thinks is best, and what we/Kakara thinks is best may not match.

 

[Bommelom]

[X] Plan KISS
[X] No

 

[Andres]

What he thinks is best, and what we/Kakara thinks is best may not match.

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They supported Oni, they supported three Super Saiyan rebellions, they almost successfully gained effective control of a major part of the Saiyan population from under the Lords via Celeran. These are not people who can be allowed to continue as they are, they need to be dealt with. The only question is when they will be dealt with and that's a question Dad is better able to answer with his greater skill and experience in these matters.

Ensuring they remain unpunished however is completely not an option. They have done so much bad already and show no signs of stopping.

 

[Gore17]

They supported Oni, they supported three Super Saiyan rebellions, they almost successfully gained effective control of a major part of the Saiyan population from under the Lords via Celeran. These are not people who can be allowed to continue as they are, they need to be dealt with.

Click to shrink...

True...

The only question is when they will be dealt with and that's a question Dad is better able to answer with his greater skill and experience in these matters.

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This is the part I disagree with.

Ensuring they remain unpunished however is completely not an option. They have done so much bad already and show no signs of stopping.

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I'm going to counter with three different facts: our burgeoning friendship with Fennella, the heir to the position of Peat House Head, and her mutual crush the heir to House Mato, aka staunch loyalists. And the fact that Fennella is heavily and truly devout to the Faith, and House Mato is heavily pro-Faith as well, and guess who has basically got the entire Faith eating out of her palm?

We don't have to punish them: just change them from "potential nuisance" to "asset". Which is probably at the heart of our disagreement:

You see them as a problem that must be fixed.
I see them as an asset that can be gained.

 

[KnightDisciple]

[X] Plan KISS
[X] Yes

Honestly, while in many ways I appreciate the ideas in the more complex plans, this won't be our call anyway, and telling our father and our sensei means we'll have plenty of resources on-hand.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

Remember that if we tell Dad, The Head Priests' life isn't immediately forfeit. It just comes down to a communications roll, which we can presumably influence by pointing out all the reasons why killing him is a bad idea. It is thus possible to get the best of both worlds; keep the priest alive, while letting Dad know about the Peats' plots and have him deal with them quietly so they can't screw everything up at the worst possible time.

Was it the Peats who wanted to break the Masquerade? This would be the perfect opportunity for them to do so, if they wanted.

 

[anailater]

[X] Plan KISS
[X] No

 

[rkyeun]

[X] Plan KISS

 

[KaintukeeBob]

[X] Plan KISS
[X] Yes

I'd propose a plan tea party, but I honestly have missed most of the last few pages of discussion.

So I'll go with the simple plan that uses our existing character knowledge and fulfills our duties as Scion.

 

[KnightDisciple]

Remember that if we tell Dad, The Head Priests' life isn't immediately forfeit. It just comes down to a communications roll, which we can presumably influence by pointing out all the reasons why killing him is a bad idea. It is thus possible to get the best of both worlds; keep the priest alive, while letting Dad know about the Peats' plots and have him deal with them quietly so they can't screw everything up at the worst possible time.

Was it the Peats who wanted to break the Masquerade? This would be the perfect opportunity for them to do so, if they wanted.

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I think that @PoptartProdigy will be nice enough to give us a chance to say stuff more at that point.
But considering that vote item doesn't have a Write-In option, I prefer sticking to the presented options.

 

[Deathbybunnies]

I think that @PoptartProdigy will be nice enough to give us a chance to say stuff more at that point.
But considering that vote item doesn't have a Write-In option, I prefer sticking to the presented options.

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Excellent points, both. I'm going to stick to my guns though, just in case; we would have told him in the past, so the conversation and decision has already happened. I'm not sure how @PoptartProdigy would want to deal with what might be a flashback so I'm keeping the arguments in just to be safe.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

Excellent points, both. I'm going to stick to my guns though, just in case; we would have told him in the past, so the conversation and decision has already happened. I'm not sure how @PoptartProdigy would want to deal with what might be a flashback so I'm keeping the arguments in just to be safe.

Click to shrink...

I have plans.

Spoiler: The Story So Far

Vote Tally : Sci-Fi - Dragon Ball: After the End | Page 217 | Sufficient Velocity
##### NetTally 1.7.5

[X] Plan Secret Martial Artists, version current.
-[X] Tell Dad. This is his job; he can decide how to deal with it.
--[X] Suggest we have a goodly number of Saiyans train up their Masque affinity, and 'reveal' the existence of a secret order of martial artists- without revealing the whole Saiyan thing. 'Attempt to hide' the order, inasmuch as keeping it still hidden to the general public, if possible, over the course of the fights. Bonus points: We may be able to excuse teaching our human friends in earnest this way.
-[X] Tell Sensei. He'll know what to do.
--[X] Then Tell your conspirators (Grandma, the Senzus, and anybody else you bring in on things). They need to know this in case it'll impact the plan.
--[X] With Dad's permission tell the general Saiyan public.
-[X] Tell Dad about the Peat's perfidious plots
--[X] But request he deal with it as quietly as possible, given how we particularly publicly permitted possible-pope Peat a partial pardon.
No. of Votes: 6
Plan: ◈Secret Martial Artists, version current.
Aranfan
Lupercal
Nathaniel Wolff
Terrabrand
Walkin' Man
Yorick's Skull

[X] Plan KISS
-[x] Tell Dad. This is his job; he can decide how to deal with it.
-[x] Tell Sensei. He'll know what to do.
--[x] Then Tell your conspirators (Grandma, the Senzus, and anybody else you bring in on things). They need to know this in case it'll impact the plan.
[X] No
No. of Votes: 4
Bakkasama
anailater
Bommelom
Gore17

[X] Plan KISS
-[x] Tell Dad. This is his job; he can decide how to deal with it.
-[x] Tell Sensei. He'll know what to do.
--[x] Then Tell your conspirators (Grandma, the Senzus, and anybody else you bring in on things). They need to know this in case it'll impact the plan.
[X] Yes
No. of Votes: 3
Andres110
KaintukeeBob
KnightDisciple

[x] Plan Counter Strike.
-[X] Tell Dad. This is his job; he can decide how to deal with it.
--[X] Suggest we have a number of Saiyans go out into space with some Seers, and fight the scout out there. Keeping the fighting away from Garenhuld means we don't have to worry about damage, and means that if we're detected (by say, The Enemy), it isn't traced straight back to home.
---[X] Also suggest that rather than simply killing the enemy, bring him back and have a Sorcerer bind him, so he can be questioned. We know others will be coming, it would be good to get some information on them.
--[X] Then Tell your conspirators (Grandma, the Senzus, and anybody else you bring in on things). They need to know this in case it'll impact the plan.
-[X] Tell Dad about the Peat's perfidious plots
--[X] But request he deal with it as quietly as possible.
No. of Votes: 2
Plan: ◈Counter Strike.
ChildishChimera
Ridiculously Average Guy

[x] Plan Deathbybunnies.
-[X] Tell Dad. This is his job; he can decide how to deal with it.
--[X] Suggest we have a number of Saiyans go out into space with some Seers, and fight the scouts out there. Keeping the fighting away from Garenhuld means we don't have to worry about damage, and means that if we're detected (by say, The Enemy), it isn't traced straight back to home.
---[X] Also suggest that if at all possible, keep a scout alive (possibly using a Sorcerer to bind him), so he can be questioned. We know others will be coming, it would be good to get some information on them.
--[X] Then Tell your conspirators (Grandma, the Senzus, and anybody else you bring in on things). They need to know this in case it'll impact the plan.
-[X] Tell Dad about the Peat's perfidious plots
--[X] But request he deal with it as quietly as possible, given how we particularly publicly permitted possible-pope Peat a partial pardon.
---[X] Emphasise how we particularly don't want the Head Priest executed, for four main reasons:
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Deathbybunnies.
Deathbybunnies

[X] Plan KISS
-[x] Tell Dad. This is his job; he can decide how to deal with it.
-[x] Tell Sensei. He'll know what to do.
--[x] Then Tell your conspirators (Grandma, the Senzus, and anybody else you bring in on things). They need to know this in case it'll impact the plan.
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈KISS
rkyeun

[X] Plan Secret Martial Artists v2
No. of Votes: 1
Plan: ◈Secret Martial Artists v2
hcvquizibo

[X] Plan Terminator.
-[X] Tell Dad. This is his job; he can decide how to deal with it.
--[X] Suggest we have a number of Saiyans go out un-Masqued, and reveal themselves to be genetically-modified soldiers from the future, sent back to stop the coming alien invasion before it's too late.
-[X] Tell Sensei. He'll know what to do.
--[X] Then Tell your conspirators (Grandma, the Senzus, and anybody else you bring in on things). They need to know this in case it'll impact the plan.
-[X] Tell Dad about the Peat's perfidious plots
--[X] But request he deal with it as quietly as possible.
No. of Votes: 0
Plan: ◈Terminator.

Total No. of Voters: 18

Plan KISS is presently leading. A lot of people aren't voting on the matter of the Peats, but presently telling Dad about them is winning.

 

[Lailoken]

Remember that if we tell Dad, The Head Priests' life isn't immediately forfeit. It just comes down to a communications roll, which we can presumably influence by pointing out all the reasons why killing him is a bad idea. It is thus possible to get the best of both worlds; keep the priest alive, while letting Dad know about the Peats' plots and have him deal with them quietly so they can't screw everything up at the worst possible time.

Was it the Peats who wanted to break the Masquerade? This would be the perfect opportunity for them to do so, if they wanted.

Click to shrink...

The GM said that the priest's life wouldn't be automatically forfeit and that we'd get the chance to make communication checks to save him. He will probably be more cranky with the higher authority and his own direct subordinate who didn't spontaneously confess and repent. Considering that even the priest's survival isn't assured here, it doesn't look good for Head Peat. We should assume that a "yes" vote will result in at least one execution.

I'm serious here. It looks as if we should only tell Berra about the Peats if we don't think we are going to be able to spare the resources to pursue the matter ourselves.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

The GM said that the priest's life wouldn't be automatically forfeit and that we'd get the chance to make communication checks to save him. He will probably be more cranky with the higher authority and his own direct subordinate who didn't spontaneously confess and repent. Considering that even the priest's survival isn't assured here, it doesn't look good for Head Peat. We should assume that a "yes" vote will result in at least one execution.

I'm serious here. It looks as if we should only tell Berra about the Peats if we don't think we are going to be able to spare the resources to pursue the matter ourselves.

Click to shrink...

You're reading a little too far into what I've said on the matter. Communication checks are involved, yes. Not all of them are yours, and I said nothing about, "automatically forfeit." No comment on the rest.

 

[PoptartProdigy]

I'll close in a few hours if we don't get anymore votes or vote changes.

 

[Andres]

I'm going to counter with three different facts: our burgeoning friendship with Fennella, the heir to the position of Peat House Head, and her mutual crush the heir to House Mato, aka staunch loyalists. And the fact that Fennella is heavily and truly devout to the Faith, and House Mato is heavily pro-Faith as well, and guess who has basically got the entire Faith eating out of her palm?

We don't have to punish them: just change them from "potential nuisance" to "asset".

Click to shrink...

You are either talking out of your ass or you are correct. There's no real way to know because we don't have a grasp of the current politics that's as extensive and nuanced as it needs to be in order to truly determine whether your idea is valid and has merit or if it plain wouldn't work due to factors we're unaware of. Dad will take all of that into account if we tell him and unlike us, he'll have the knowledge and experience to see if the idea really is a better one than simply punishing the house.

Also, nitpick to your argument, but House Peat isn't a "potential nuisance", they are a "dangerous nuisance who have been involved in several major problems and will very likely be involved in future major problems if left unchecked".

 

[Bommelom]

Also, nitpick to your argument, but House Peat isn't a "potential nuisance", they are a "dangerous nuisance who have been involved in several major problems and will very likely be involved in future major problems if left unchecked".

Click to shrink...

"Dangerous" how? No, really, we're Full Power Super Saiyans and they aren't, and even a Peat-controlled Celeran would not actually be more dangerous than a non Peat-controlled High Priest with the exact same beliefs. House Peat is only dangerous in that it likely represents a faction of anti-Masquerade Faithful, but punishing House Peat isn't actually going to make that faction disappear.

 

[Lailoken]

In my apparent role as Devil's advocate, I feel the need to point out that the whole Jaffur situation, and the resulting constitutional crisis threatening civil war among all of Saiyan society, only exists because of Berra. We can't really presume in favor of the quality of his judgement when we are actively collaborating with rebellion in order to thwart it.