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Nother advantage of leaving is that we will finally be able to put our communication abilities to proper use.

No more will we be looked down upon because we can talk good and are compassionate, as I hope that in the wider galaxy there are people more willing to talk and who are not blood thirsty maniacs like our people.
 
Nother advantage of leaving is that we will finally be able to put our communication abilities to proper use.

No more will we be looked down upon because we can talk good and are compassionate, as I hope that in the wider galaxy there are people more willing to talk and who are not blood thirsty maniacs like our people.
...you're gonna be a ghost. They're not gonna be contemptuous now, just freak the fuck out because a twelve-year-old is floating through their doors or whatever - but still no talking. Frankly, suicide-bombing and going to hang out with Ghost Grampa Gohan (call him triple-g, dawg) sounds like more fun.

You can commiserate about the idiocy of your fight-happy kin!
 
...you're gonna be a ghost. They're not gonna be contemptuous now, just freak the fuck out because a twelve-year-old is floating through their doors or whatever - but still no talking. Frankly, suicide-bombing and going to hang out with Ghost Grampa Gohan (call him triple-g, dawg) sounds like more fun.

You can commiserate about the idiocy of your fight-happy kin!
Presumably we can "bind" ourselves to a place (future self's words not mine) and then talk to them that way.

Do you forget that we can currently not come back if we die? Cause that idea sounds like the best bad end.
 
It does, which is why I am so tempted right now.
A bad end is still a bad end which still means Dandeer wins.

I don't want her to win, I want to be able to stand over her broken, magic-less body and cast down everything she worked so hard for with a flick of our wrist, destroy everything she made us suffer through and then sit down and then give Jaffur a big smooch right in front of her to drive the point home.
 
A bad end is still a bad end which still means Dandeer wins.

I don't want her to win, I want to be able to stand over her broken body and cast down everything she worked so hard for, destroy everything she made us suffer through and then sit down and then give Jaffur a big smooch right in front of her to drive the point home.
Agreed, with the exception of that last bit. Maya is too cute.
 
A bad end is still a bad end which still means Dandeer wins.

I don't want her to win, I want to be able to stand over her broken, magic-less body and cast down everything she worked so hard for with a flick of our wrist, destroy everything she made us suffer through and then sit down and then give Jaffur a big smooch right in front of her to drive the point home.
Shipping reigns eternal, I see. :rofl:
 
Violations of Rule 4 - If you’re going to leave, then do so instead of hanging around using your impending departure as an implicit defense against arguments
A bad end is still a bad end which still means Dandeer wins.

I don't want her to win, I want to be able to stand over her broken, magic-less body and cast down everything she worked so hard for with a flick of our wrist, destroy everything she made us suffer through and then sit down and then give Jaffur a big smooch right in front of her to drive the point home.
That's why I'm unfollowing the story; Dandeer is a fucking millstone around the plot's neck, let alone the thread's. When we started this showdown I was like 'finally, this will be done and over with', and now Poptart is like 'lol psych she wins', because we apparently didn't pick up on the hints and tips we weren't given, so I'm saying 'fuck it'. I'll catch up later, maybe this bullshit will be done then.

(And it's not like I'm not sympathetic to the extra effort QMs go through - I think I voted like once in this quest, because the votes were so goddamn arcane I didn't know what the fuck, and I can't imagine trying to parse it out into viable writing material, but that doesn't really account for my problems here.)
 
Shipping reigns eternal, I see. :rofl:
I don't ship them (at least not any more), its not healthy for either of them and frankly future Kakara's talking about how she doesn't want us to become queen like she did only makes me more certain its a shit idea.

I put that bit about kissing him to hammer home the point that she's lost.

@PoptartProdigy
Qs
1. You've probably answered this before, but I just want to know: Why did Dandelor or Apra not get every member of the conspiracy checked for mind control. Dandelor at least knew enough to be paranoid, but it seems like neither of them thought of that.
2. HOE (How on Earth) are the Senzu getting back to their hold? It doesn't seem like freeing them would do...anything aside from getting the SS to rip them to pieces?
3. Can the rolls screw us over if we follow the plan here? Cause my ****y luck's been screwing over a lot of my quests at the moment so I'm begging for some assurances.
4. How strong can Kakara get by leaving this dump of a planet?

With respect poptart, you aren't invited to the party for like the next 12-24 hours.
Dude WTF?
 
I think it is better if instead of thinking of this as losing, we think it is a tactical retreat. As such, going SS2 is a terrible idea since it brings the enemy and either makes it so that we return to a pile of ash or Dandeer's thralls will train as if there is no tomorrow.

Our main advantage is that Dandeer thinks she won so once she seals us she will think we are out of commission while our shade does stuff. She won't be making contingencies against us if she doesn't know we are free. More importantly, Carrick won't be limiting our sight anymore.

I think our best option is future Kakara's plan. Don't try to free Jaffur since she will never rest until she controls him. We might want to warn her about the suicidal tendencies as a concerned friend to sell the impression she won.

Once we are a Shade, we go to the otherworld, ask Piccolo where Namek is, find their sorcerers and ask to wish on the Dragonballs to break everyone free from Dandeer's control.

That should be enough to turn this around as long as she doesn't know what we are doing. She did well here because she had 7 years to prepare for a confrontation but if she doesn't know to prepare for this...

Come to think about it, the exile sorcery system is less than 300 years old. @PoptartProdigy has any exile even attempted mind control before Dandeer? That might be why Dandelordidn't think about it.

That said, if leaving is unpalatable and people are set on Dandeer dying... well, future Kakara said the spell was to prevent us from moving so in theory we could use telekinesis to break Dandeer's neck. We would have to pass a couple of ki control checks against Yammar so the he can't detect or stop it though.
 
I think it is better if instead of thinking of this as losing, we think it is a tactical retreat. As such, going SS2 is a terrible idea since it brings the enemy and either makes it so that we return to a pile of ash or Dandeer's thralls will train as if there is no tomorrow.

Our main advantage is that Dandeer thinks she won so once she seals us she will think we are out of commission while our shade does stuff. She won't be making contingencies against us if she doesn't know we are free. More importantly, Carrick won't be limiting our sight anymore.

I think our best option is future Kakara's plan. Don't try to free Jaffur since she will never rest until she controls him. We might want to warn her about the suicidal tendencies as a concerned friend to sell the impression she won.

Once we are a Shade, we go to the otherworld, ask Piccolo where Namek is, find their sorcerers and ask to wish on the Dragonballs to break everyone free from Dandeer's control.

That should be enough to turn this around as long as she doesn't know what we are doing. She did well here because she had 7 years to prepare for a confrontation but if she doesn't know to prepare for this...

Come to think about it, the exile sorcery system is less than 300 years old. @PoptartProdigy has any exile even attempted mind control before Dandeer? That might be why Dandelordidn't think about it.

That said, if leaving is unpalatable and people are set on Dandeer dying... well, future Kakara said the spell was to prevent us from moving so in theory we could use telekinesis to break Dandeer's neck. We would have to pass a couple of ki control checks against Yammar so the he can't detect or stop it though.
Yeah, we should probably eat the loss so she thinks she's won. The TK snap is tempting, but Kakara's Ideology wouldn't allow it.
 
I like that we managed to lose. That doesn't happen in quests often enough.
It's not about that we lost, its about that we were apparently meant to pick up on signs that the entire thread missed.

If we really lost because of our own incompetence alone that'd be one thing, if we lost entirely because we just didn't pick up on Poptart's clues then that's on us.

But, how on earth were were meant to anticipate Dandeer subverting almost everyone and the "conspiracy" not checking.

Once we are a Shade, we go to the otherworld, ask Piccolo where Namek is, find their sorcerers and ask to wish on the Dragonballs to break everyone free from Dandeer's control.
Can shades even go to other world?

Regardless if we do go to other world, then I have a different request.

"Hey Gohan Gigi, since you contributed to this fucking mess in the first place, how bouts you and the rest of the saiyins here make me an SSG SO THAT I CAN RIP AND TARE.";)

In any case, would a seal actually do anything if our guiding consciousness isn't in it? I mean she can make her own, but presumably she needs something in it to base it on right?
 
In a way I sort of understand. We weren't outsmarted, we just assumed that an enemy capable of casting mind control on the conspiracy would have dismantled it before it began. We literally couldn't account for how dumb and shortsighted Dandeer was.
 
With respect poptart, you aren't invited to the party for like the next 12-24 hours.

EDIT: On second thought, this is uncalled for.
It certainly was, in addition to not being your call.
@PoptartProdigy
Qs
1. You've probably answered this before, but I just want to know: Why did Dandelor or Apra not get every member of the conspiracy checked for mind control. Dandelor at least knew enough to be paranoid, but it seems like neither of them thought of that.
2. HOE (How on Earth) are the Senzu getting back to their hold? It doesn't seem like freeing them would do...anything aside from getting the SS to rip them to pieces?
3. Can the rolls screw us over if we follow the plan here? Cause my ****y luck's been screwing over a lot of my quests at the moment so I'm begging for some assurances.
4. How strong can Kakara get by leaving this dump of a planet?
  1. Yammar did not act like people expected a mind controlled person to act. Dandeer was known to specialize in mind magics, but they aren't know to function the way hers did. Much more the way the thread originally anticipated -- all but drooling zombies. Furthermore, he was largely considered to be above suspicion, given that he was organizing the thing. Like, what Kakara still doesn't get is why the conspiracy was allowed to get this far. Dandeer nearly lost. Kakara can't quite figure why Dandeer would risk that. The Conspiracy did run people past Dandelor when they could get away with it, but they couldn't get everybody, because even if the Hall is hidden, eventually somebody would notice large numbers of people in the area, and extrapolate. And Apra and Yammar were, as mentioned, considered to be above suspicion. With sorcerous assets so limited, they didn't want to use it on, "obviously safe," targets. Dandelor had a lot to do, and limited juice with which to do it.
  2. That would be why Kakara needs to run interference.
  3. There is always a chance of failure, even if only theoretically, but in this case you'd be running a massive bonus from the vision you just received (this being largely what Sight does, mechanically, and this being quite the vision.).
  4. Spoilers.
@PoptartProdigy has any exile even attempted mind control before Dandeer? That might be why Dandelordidn't think about it.
Attempted, yes, but it was far cruder. Dandeer's versions represent massive leaps forward in the field. That, and he barely had the juice for what he was already doing.
 
What would the reaction be from exile society if someone went to the second stage for selfless reasons? Such as saving our entire race?1
 
No offense, but this plan sounds like "stab yourself through the heart" and we all now how that worked out.

Honestly at this point, why not? Right now the situation is 'And it all ended rape-ily ever after'

Well here are our three options
A) Do nothing and die
B) Be a ghost, do nothing for several years but vote to train while everyone we love dies forever and theres no way to stop it
C) Go SS2, win and then die instantly in a year instead of now.

Pretty much exactly this yes.

As far as I can see there were only three things keeping her on this scrap heap, her family, her friends and Jaffur, all three of which are about to be taken away so I say fuck this shit hole.

Two real world years and five in game years all rendered meaningless in a single confrontation because every single character is braindead, except for the alleged idiot who has flawless contingencies for everything.

We need to telepathy our friends and tell them to hide.

Dandeer is just about to activate a planetary scale 'mind rape everyone into slavery' button. There's nowhere they can hide.

Wait, where do you get the idea that everyone we loves dies forever if we turn into a shade? Future Kakara mentioned we'd lose people, yeah, but given Dandelor's goal is apparently to mind control everyone to create a perfect world (which fits all her actions, except, again, murdering sorcerers), so to me it sounded more like that we're going to lose people we love to the challenges that come after Dandeer (just as we could have lost Berra or Apra to Dazarel, for isntance), not that Dandelor's reign is going to kill anyone.

Because Jaron became suicidal, and this is multiple times bigger than what was cast on him.

You do realise they're about to be turned into drooling lobotimites enslaved to Dandeer's will at best doing their upmost to make her happy?

They're not in any danger of killing themselves.

Jaron's seal was also faulty causing his ****ed up memories to bleed over and Dandeer was abusing him directly.

The rest of the population are probably going to end up like idiot 1 and 2 (Berra and Douchebag).

It wasn't caused by the faulty seal, it was caused by the discrepancies between actual reality and the constant enforcement of 'love me' whilst she was controlling and abusing him.

The mind-control is inherently degenerative.

Either Jaron kills himself early on, and Kakara returns to find the planet gone because Dandeer blew it up after the lynchpin of all her justifications died.

Or Kakara returns to find 90% of the population including people she cares about have killed themselves due to the deleterious effects of the mind-control. Assuming there aren't other things it could cause, like catatonia or straight up brain aneurysms.

Poptart could of course retcon this and say that it's completely safe but then the implicit message of the narrative would be that you can rape the world better. And as much as I hate this update and whole chain of events I don't think Poptart is a rape apologist.

Why would there be a large chance of Jaffur dying in the mean time? Dandeer does not want Jaffur to die, so if she hears about the suicide attempt she'll do everything she can to prevent it from happening again (likely in a serious fucked up way, but at least he's not going to die).

The suicide attempt was caused by her magic. I 100% believe Dandeer would try and fix it with 'Just add more mind-rape' but that would fundamentally make the problem worse.

Our body will probably gain some kind of sealed personality.

If in shade form the body enters into a coma. There's no mind to seal so I think her body would just remain in a coma.

Now THAT'S a valid point. Why wasn't Dandelor paranoid about mind control spells and constantly checking everyone-Dandelor had a jobber spell placed on him too. That's why Dandeer let him go.

This bullshit is getting real tiring.

If there's one thing this has shown it's that every character is an unmitigated moron and Kakara has to literally hold their hand through every single action or they'll demonstrate crippling incompetence.

Except for Dandeer. Who is allegedly an idiot yet has total control of everything.

That's why I'm unfollowing the story; Dandeer is a fucking millstone around the plot's neck, let alone the thread's. When we started this showdown I was like 'finally, this will be done and over with', and now Poptart is like 'lol psych she wins', because we apparently didn't pick up on the hints and tips we weren't given, so I'm saying 'fuck it'. I'll catch up later, maybe this bullshit will be done then.

The rest of the story is interesting. There's back and forth, there's philosophy and politics and emotions and complicated relationships. Dandeer just destroys everything interesting about the story. Everyone is puppets forever.

Dandeer needs to be excised like the cancer she is. Not even as a character, as a fucking plot device.

Hail Mary to end her immediately because a story about shade Kakara lost in the larger universe whilst everyone she cares about is being raped will be garbage.
 
@PoptartProdigy
Honestly at this point, why not? Right now the situation is 'And it all ended rape-ily ever after'



Pretty much exactly this yes.



Two real world years and five in game years all rendered meaningless in a single confrontation because every single character is braindead, except for the alleged idiot who has flawless contingencies for everything.



Dandeer is just about to activate a planetary scale 'mind rape everyone into slavery' button. There's nowhere they can hide.









It wasn't caused by the faulty seal, it was caused by the discrepancies between actual reality and the constant enforcement of 'love me' whilst she was controlling and abusing him.

The mind-control is inherently degenerative.

Either Jaron kills himself early on, and Kakara returns to find the planet gone because Dandeer blew it up after the lynchpin of all her justifications died.

Or Kakara returns to find 90% of the population including people she cares about have killed themselves due to the deleterious effects of the mind-control. Assuming there aren't other things it could cause, like catatonia or straight up brain aneurysms.

Poptart could of course retcon this and say that it's completely safe but then the implicit message of the narrative would be that you can rape the world better. And as much as I hate this update and whole chain of events I don't think Poptart is a rape apologist.



The suicide attempt was caused by her magic. I 100% believe Dandeer would try and fix it with 'Just add more mind-rape' but that would fundamentally make the problem worse.



If in shade form the body enters into a coma. There's no mind to seal so I think her body would just remain in a coma.



If there's one thing this has shown it's that every character is an unmitigated moron and Kakara has to literally hold their hand through every single action or they'll demonstrate crippling incompetence.

Except for Dandeer. Who is allegedly an idiot yet has total control of everything.



The rest of the story is interesting. There's back and forth, there's philosophy and politics and emotions and complicated relationships. Dandeer just destroys everything interesting about the story. Everyone is puppets forever.

Dandeer needs to be excised like the cancer she is. Not even as a character, as a fucking plot device.

Hail Mary to end her immediately because a story about shade Kakara lost in the larger universe whilst everyone she cares about is being raped will be garbage.
Please, listen. Please actually look at and engage with our problems here. We are not being "salty", we think you're killing the quest.
 
I'm guessing our seer Juice was considered too limited to do the checks(I mean I don't remember a vote about it)
 
It certainly was, in addition to not being your call.
Yeah I apologize for that. It's not easy taking jokes on top of everything else, but it was still inexcusable.

If it's alright with you, could I get an answer as to whether the Genki Dama communication could work, or whether my guess about Dandeer just not thinking to check if there was a conspiracy is up the right tree.

At the end of the day I'm still interested in what comes next, I just think it was a poor way to get here.
 
Furthermore, he was largely considered to be above suspicion, given that he was organizing the thing. Like, what Kakara still doesn't get is why the conspiracy was allowed to get this far. Dandeer nearly lost. Kakara can't quite figure why Dandeer would risk that. The Conspiracy did run people past Dandelor when they could get away with it, but they couldn't get everybody, because even if the Hall is hidden, eventually somebody would notice large numbers of people in the area, and extrapolate. And Apra and Yammar were, as mentioned, considered to be above suspicion. With sorcerous assets so limited, they didn't want to use it on, "obviously safe," targets. Dandelor had a lot to do, and limited juice with which to do it.
I'm sorry, but organising this shindig should not have placed him above suspicion.

Dandelion knew that she's a specialist in mental magic she doesn't need to specifically mind control people a person to screw with them and that yammar out of all the people has interacted with her most.

As for not enough time or power had had enough of both to make a work around for Dandeer's super spell in less than 5 minutes I find the idea of him not having time to give the person organising this entire nonsense a look.

On phone hence dandelion.
 
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